ts500i problems

[1gr8bldr]

Got tired of working on saws so I bought what was said to be the best, ts500i. Powerful saw. I have not used it much. It started bogging down. I pulled the air filter. It was dirty, broke in half while taking it out. A small portion of the seal was damaged, looking like it was letting in dirty air.... maybe not, but the inside mouth behind the filter was a little dirty. Cleaned it up. Replaced. refueled, Tried to start it up. Would half run. tried new spark plug. Changed fuel, it crank and ran well. Same with my big chain saw. It's running bad was fixed by changing the fuel. It was bad, somehow. Old, to much oil. I needed to start over because I lost track of how old that fuel was. It should have been disposed of a long time ago. Anyway, solved the chain saw problem. Started at first with the ts500i. It ran good for 3 minutes. Then died. Now no spark, the cylinder dry of fuel. I put some oil in the cylinder because I knew I would be pulling it and wanted it lubed. It would not attempt to hit with starter fluid. It acts as if something electronic has it shut down. The off lever that depresses and makes contact is not stuck down. I need the saw running for tomorrow. Electronics make me feel helpless. I can usually problem solve and fix anything, unless electronics are involved. Advice needed . I have tried 2 other plugs.

 

[Guido Salvage]

Done a compression test? Pull the muffler and take a look at the cylinder. Chop saws are subject to running in dusty conditions, with a leaking air filter particles could have been injested and the cylinder scored.

 

[alexcagle]

+1
Also, if you take the air filter off and hold the throttle wide open, you can look in and see the condition of the intake side side of the piston.

 

[alexcagle]

Why not take an empty pump spray bottle and fill it with mixed fuel instead of starting fluid?
Was it idling when it died, or cutting at full throttle?

 

[hedge hog]

Pull the recoil and check grinding burrs from metal stuck to the mags


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[1gr8bldr]

Even though it could have lost some compression, it would seem that it would try to hit. Making me think it is electronically shut down. Unless it has a crank case pressure sensor of some sort

 

[Conquistador3]

With all due respect, I would start by following Guido's advice: you said the air filter broke the moment you removed it. On any saw this would be cause for an immediate piston inspection and compression check, but on a concrete saw doubly so.

That's about the only thing I would do personally: I am not qualified to work on Stihl fuel injection, nor do I possess the diagnostic tools needed. I would leave that to somebody who has been trained by Stihl into it.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Pull the recoil and check grinding burrs from metal stuck to the mags


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No external magnets... stator under the flywheel runs these.

Even though it could have lost some compression, it would seem that it would try to hit. Making me think it is electronically shut down. Unless it has a crank case pressure sensor of some sort

No pressure sensor... but all electronic.

Check the leads coming from the stator to the computer. No signal will lead to no spark. After that go through the 5 multi pin connectors going into the computer.

I loved the 500i we had.. until.. it had some issues and the only local dealer here charged $140 to "scan" the unit. Came back with a list that made no sense .. then said $1400 to fix it. It is a $965 saw out the door. I said you are crazy and priced parts they were quoting.. wanted $1500 for parts.. then said if you don't want to pay for it you can leave it here. I took it with me... what was wrong I do not know.. throttle position sensor, injector bad, bad stator, I don't know. Long and short you need a good dealer with the software to help you find out what the computer is and is not doing.

 

[hedge hog]

No external magnets... stator under the flywheel runs these.




No pressure sensor... but all electronic.

Check the leads coming from the stator to the computer. No signal will lead to no spark. After that go through the 5 multi pin connectors going into the computer.

I loved the 500i we had.. until.. it had some issues and the only local dealer here charged $140 to "scan" the unit. Came back with a list that made no sense .. then said $1400 to fix it. It is a $965 saw out the door. I said you are crazy and priced parts they were quoting.. wanted $1500 for parts.. then said if you don't want to pay for it you can leave it here. I took it with me... what was wrong I do not know.. throttle position sensor, injector bad, bad stator, I don't know. Long and short you need a good dealer with the software to help you find out what the computer is and is not doing.

The only 500 I have seen hooked up several times and still couldn't fix it was metal grinding dust in the fly wheel area
They did a complete cleaning job on the saw when they figured the computer wasn't helping them

I Just through it out there


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[1gr8bldr]

I used my bore cam to look in the cylinder. A little streaking everywhere. How would this not allow it to crank? It likely could use a rebuild, but it looks like it would run

 

[rupedoggy]

No compression=No joy!

 

[1gr8bldr]

Looking through the intake, the piston is a little scored. And the butterfly has a heavy dust buildup. I have rebuilt 10 dirtbikes top ends and 2 bottom ends. Is this rebuild something I can do? Would it be top end only or new crank bearings as well. Is it better to buy a new cylinder or bore? Likley what would the Stihl dealership charge

 

[Jimmy in NC]

The stator and magnets will give a false impression of compression. If its scored, pull it down.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Top end cheap enough http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-TS480i-TS500i-cylinder-and-piston-kit-p/h30500.htm How about the bottom end???? Will it need to be rebuilt

 

[backhoelover]

+1
Also, if you take the air filter off and hold the throttle wide open, you can look in and see the condition of the intake side side of the piston.

The concrete saw master has spoken

 

[1gr8bldr]

Been thinking about this. Saw was running great and started to bog. Once it started to bog, with no power to cut, I took off the butt end, removed the air filter. I think it had split before I removed it. The design is to leave it dirty until it will not run. But apparently the filter split under pressure. The replacement fliter I bought had an inner filter that would have prevented the collapse of the filter. It had never been removed. Likely only 2 hours on the saw. I wonder if it was left off from the factory or if this is something they added when they realized the potential risk????

 

[rupedoggy]

"The design is to leave it dirty until it will not run."
Bahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[1gr8bldr]

Yep, that what it says. The electronics adjust it to compensate. They claim a year without having to change the filter with this system. I have read it in the manual, online and was told this by the Stihl parts man when I bought a new filter. Sounds crazy to me.

 

[alexcagle]

Looking through the intake, the piston is a little scored. And the butterfly has a heavy dust buildup. I have rebuilt 10 dirtbikes top ends and 2 bottom ends. Is this rebuild something I can do? Would it be top end only or new crank bearings as well. Is it better to buy a new cylinder or bore? Likley what would the Stihl dealership charge

*
Those cylinders are tough.
I just use a dremel 503 paddle wheel and clean up the aluminum off the chrome, unless, of course, a ring has gouged the chrome.
Then get an OEM piston. They are cheaper now, unless your dealer is a rapist.
It should be around $50.
One difference I've noticed between aftermarket TS500i pistons and OEM ones is that OEM have the bottom ring locator pin around between the transfers and the exhaust port, and the upper ring gap pin is centered on the intake side. However, on the aftermarket TS500i pistons, they locate them both off to each side near the intake port. I think they must be using a similar "already in production" piston that is close to the TS500i and modifying it.
*
As far as the bottom end goes, you can flush the bearings with wd40 a couple times, depending on the severity of the aluminum or concrete dust contamination. I use the liquid wd40 in a squirt bottle to fill the crankcase about a 1/3 full with the cylinder off, and piston removed. Then rotate the crank for a bit to mix and float the crap out of the bearings, then dump it.
When you're done, blow out the bearings with compressed air to get the wd40 out from behind the bearings where the seal is.
You can reuse the cylinder base gasket if the black coating is intact. I use a light coating of yamabond 4 after I dry the gasket and mating surfaces with lacquer thinner on a paper towel.
*
The air filters usually never fall apart unless they are aftermarket.
I have seen fuel soaked Oem filters that the orange seal will crack, but never a filter that "sucks in".
They usually get fuel soaked from hot weather causing the tank vent to pop off, but that is rare. Really cold nights followed by a warm day can cause this condition if the fuel tank is completely full. Something's gotta give.
Those tank vents only hold about 4psi when new. They place the tank vents on the clean side of the filter, but the drawback is the potential for a soaked filter.
When the tank vents leak fuel on the air filters, the fuel leaves a residue of the oil in the mix.
This causes dust to stick to the paper media which restricts the airflow and shortens the effective life of the filter.

I have on occation seen some filters that I've changed on the TS420/500i's that I bagged up and weighed them with astonishment like a lunker catfish.... lol
-and what's crazy is that the clean side.... it was still clean.
I've never seen an aftermaket filter do anything except shorten the life of a saw.
I will not use them. -That goes for Husqvarna too.

 

[backhoelover]

*
Those cylinders are tough.
I just use a dremel 503 paddle wheel and clean up the aluminum off the chrome, unless, of course, a ring has gouged the chrome.
Then get an OEM piston. They are cheaper now, unless your dealer is a rapist.
It should be around $50.
One difference I've noticed between aftermarket TS500i pistons and OEM ones is that OEM have the bottom ring locator pin around between the transfers and the exhaust port, and the upper ring gap pin is centered on the intake side. However, on the aftermarket TS500i pistons, they locate them both off to each side near the intake port. I think they must be using a similar "already in production" piston that is close to the TS500i and modifying it.
*
As far as the bottom end goes, you can flush the bearings with wd40 a couple times, depending on the severity of the aluminum or concrete dust contamination. I use the liquid wd40 in a squirt bottle to fill the crankcase about a 1/3 full with the cylinder off, and piston removed. Then rotate the crank for a bit to mix and float the crap out of the bearings, then dump it.
When you're done, blow out the bearings with compressed air to get the wd40 out from behind the bearings where the seal is.
You can reuse the cylinder base gasket if the black coating is intact. I use a light coating of yamabond 4 after I dry the gasket and mating surfaces with lacquer thinner on a paper towel.
*
The air filters usually never fall apart unless they are aftermarket.
I have seen fuel soaked Oem filters that the orange seal will crack, but never a filter that "sucks in".
They usually get fuel soaked from hot weather causing the tank vent to pop off, but that is rare. Really cold nights followed by a warm day can cause this condition if the fuel tank is completely full. Something's gotta give.
Those tank vents only hold about 4psi when new. They place the tank vents on the clean side of the filter, but the drawback is the potential for a soaked filter.
When the tank vents leak fuel on the air filters, the fuel leaves a residue of the oil in the mix.
This causes dust to stick to the paper media which restricts the airflow and shortens the effective life of the filter.

I have on occation seen some filters that I've changed on the TS420/500i's that I bagged up and weighed them with astonishment like a lunker catfish.... lol
-and what's crazy is that the clean side.... it was still clean.
I've never seen an aftermaket filter do anything except shorten the life of a saw.
I will not use them. -That goes for Husqvarna too.

See what did I tell y'all