Tutorial: make your own raker depth gauge supported by software tool

[HarleyT]

Lots of questions have popped up.

Have at it.......

 

[JimM]

And have the poster not use the "language barrier" as a quick easy way out of responding to questions.

Actually, he uses ‘our’ language better than most here. Lol

 

[Westboastfaller]

Can someone google Husquavarna Depth gauge and post it please as I can't right now
Thnx
Its a longer plate
It says EM on the face with hardwood setting on one end and soft on the other.

 

[HarleyT]

Actually, he uses ‘our’ language better than most here. Lol

Well, Hoosiers.......

 

[JimM]

Well, Hoosiers.......

Yep. Thank you.

 

[HarleyT]

No worries.
We here in Ky., well we miss Bobby Knight.

 

[HarleyT]

He should be our next Secretary of State....

 

[hannes69]

Hannes, a saying you may or may not of heard: "The turd in the punch bowl".

Didn´t knew that one I hope I understand the meaning of it, had to google it...

I am very much aware that a progressive gauge will not keep a chain cutting correctly with a series of various length cutters.

I don´t understand what you are meaning here. I think that a chain with a series of various length cutters never will cut correctly. That has nothing to do with raker depth, it simply should be avoided during the sharpening. I think the human eye is very good in estimating cutter length when comparing some of them, it shouldn´t be a problem to hold them on a similar length during sharpening. It shouldn´t be aproblem as well when there are smaller variations like +/- 10 mil in cutter length.
A progressive raker depth gauge has an advantage in this regard compared to a 'normal' constant depth gauge: The 'normal' tool sits on two or more cutters, so it doesn´t adapt to one specific cutter, it´s a mean value then on different cutters / rakers. The progressive tool refers to one cutter and so adapts the according raker (depth).

How does it work? You say you pick the desired angle and it butts up at the end of the slot correct? I see it sits on the rivit. So this has one position and its more accurate due to the lower point to the rivet?

I assume you know your desired cutting angle. You come to this value the easiest with a new chain.
Let´s make an example. You have a brand new Stihl Rapid 3/8 chain (my basic example). This chain has brand new a raker depth of 25 mil. Let´s assume for your setup you are perfectly happy with the behaviour of this chain and you don´t want to change the depth now. That means when using my calculator you see for a cutter wearing of 0 mil ( = brand new) you have a cutting angle of 6.3°.
You say you like math: This value is very easy to calculate. When knowing the cutter-raker distance (value 'A' in my software) the cutting angle is calculated by arcustangens(raker depth / cutter-raker distance).
Other example: Maybe you are cutting softwood and you found out, that when lowering the rakers of your brand new Stihl Rapid chain to 33 mil (that is what Stihl recommends in Germany at least for soft wood), it is perfect for your needs. Then you can enter this value of 33 mil in the according field of the calculator (raker depth 'C') and you´ll get a cutting angle of 8.3° or you calculate yourself with the formula above.
Now you have your target value of the cutting angle. When using other methods than mine (digital angle finder, manual measurements,...) you aim for this angle. The progressive raker depth gauges from Stihl, Husqvarna, Carlton,... aim for a certain value as well, but you have no influence on this value. It is a given.
Now comes the calculator to play and the self-made gauge: You enter the thickness value of your steel stripe (field 'F') and do variations of the pivot length (field 'G') if using guage type 1, until the cutting angles depending on cutter wearing get nearly a constant value for your aimed cutting angle. For phhysical / mathematical reasons you can´t get a perfect result. The values always get less in direction to more cutter wearing.
When you decide to take type 2 (the easier one to produce) you only have one design parameter for the gauge, it´s the thickness. So you play around with the thickness value until you have an even distribution of cutting angles (so nearly the same value for new chain to total worn chain) aiming for your personal wanted value. Now you have luck and you land at a common steel plate thickness, if not you´ll have to make yout tool out of a too thick material and find a way to make it thinner. I mentioned this already in the strting post, that´s somethinhg to discuss here, maybe hand plishing or acid ist he way here for a homogenous result.
Don´t confuse the two versions of the tool. Type 1 is the commercially sold type, the slot sits onto a tie strap, Type 2 is the simpler one with the rectangular cutout, you can´t buy this one, this one is my idea and it is sitting onto a rivet. The advantage of type 2 in contrary to type 1 is, that the decrease of the cutting angle during the chain´s life is less. Both types have to live with a small decrease of the cutting angle during chain life, but it is ok for type 1 and even better with type 2.
BobL has measured this angle for a brand new Stihl chain as 5.7° when I remember correctly. The actual value depends on what you refer the cutter-raker distance to. I take tip of the raker to tip of the cutter horizontally aligned, I think BobL takes raker to 'gullet' so refers to a point deeper into the cutter compared to my reference. So he gets a little smaller values than my calculation, but it is meaning the same in reality. So BobL´s 5.7° are my 6.3°.

I had a hard time figuring out what [mil] was to mean behind

I wanted to give a measurement unit with common numbering (so no decimal points and many zeros) and decided for this one. I think some call it 'thou' meaning the same.

Yeah, I grew up with metric and that one took a while for me to connect.

I live in a country using metric, I thought most of the readers of this forum live in inch countries, so I decided for this system... Had to adapt all the calculations myself...

Sorry for offending you. In some of you posts you seemed very open to comments, alternative opinions, and even joking. However, you seem very closed minded to options and ideas other than your software based solution.

I won´t say I really feel offended. Ofcourse there are several different solutions. The type 1 gauge is not an invention of mine, it really exists for a long time now. And of course you can use other methods, why not? I never said that my method is the only valid one. I already mentioned the thing with the medicine and the effects and side-effects. Every method (including mine) has several advantages and disadvantages.
My point was the following: I´m offering a certain approach here. And so I think it´s normal to take relation to the thread´s topic within this thread. I had the feeling that you don´t really relate to my solution (say it´s good, it´s bad, there are better ones, feel inspired by this and that...) but simply pointed to other approaches. You can do that, but it would make more sense to me, when you not only link to them but deliver your point in linking to them (maybe a comparison or whatever).

Your 'solution' seems overly complex for practical use. Even if you decide on an optimized angle, you still need to measure that in the field, and I pointed out existing tools, and alternatives to your home made versions, that could measure and support those angles. It was intended to support your software results, but you are taking it as a challenge to your system, despite your encouragement of criticism.

Maybe you didn´t understand my solution? My solution is in certain points the same like existing progressive raker depth solutions (type 1). What do you have to measure in the field to make use of them? Nothing. You buy one and use it. Depending on the type you decide if using the "soft" or "hard" setting. Nothing to measure.
The same is valid for te two types that can be calculated by my software. So my software makes it possible to make a gauge like the buyable ones (type 1) with the difference that you can actually decide or SET your desired cutting angle value. You do the calculations ONCE and then never again, You need the calculations to build your personal gauge, nothing more. I didn´t reeinvent the whel new here, type 1 is a copy of the given ones (but with a 'personal' angle), type 2 is a variant of type 1 that is easier to produce and has less angle decrease towards the end of life of of your chain. Nothing more and nothing less.
I see it as a logical consequence of BobL´s work. He refered to a decrease of angle of the given progressive gauges (FOP), I dleiver now the amount of this decrease. And I came to the conclusion that the decrease is not that large as I feared and on top of that I found a better version (type 2) to make the situation even a little bit better.
I take nothing as a "challenge to my system". I am honest and said already in the starting post, that this is not my invention. I did a sort of 'reverse engineering' of the given progressive tools and now you have the numbers. So it is not 'my system' and there is no challenge. You make it sound as I would like to 'sell' something here. Nothing to sell. I don´t earn any money with giving this software for free to you. I don´t plan to sell commercially self-made raker depth gauges.

Not everyone fell in love with your approach, and you are disappointed.

It´s common to do arguments with exactly the opposite. I am not disappointed because of not everybody loving my approach, I am disappointed because not one single individuum produced this type of gauge himself and simply tried the solution.

 

[hannes69]

You have not convinced many people that the complex, software driven, 'make-your-own-tool approach' offers a significant, practical advantage over existing tools and methods.

Maybe I have not convinced anybody, true. I offered and showed something. And I tried to show some new aspects of this topic, give some advantages and disadvantages. Is it really my job to convince somebody here? Am I selling cars or insurances? You have now a tutorial, some photos and ap iece of software. You can do whatever you want with it. Maybe nothing. Say bad words about it. Like it. Use it and give no feedback. Use it and give feedback. Do something to make it better. It´s all your choice. Of course some scenarios are prefered by me, I am a human and not a machine so having some feelings.
It is not a problem for me, that my solution has no value for you. You have your own setup and choose the things that suit the best your setup.
I have found my solution for my setup and I published it in the thinking that maybe some of the millions of chainsaw users can make use of it.
If it´s not you it´s maybe another guy. No solution is suitable for everybody.
And if in the end I am the only person the solution helps, then it is like that. Even then it wouldn´t mean a waste of time to me, I made my programming skills better, I trained my English, I used my digital camera and I tried to write down a tutorial.
As I already said - nothing to loose here on my side.

you were treated with greater courtesy than many participants.

What exactly do you want to say here? I shall be grateful because of the way I´m treated here? I shall be grateful because it would have been possible that I was treated way worse?
Ok, many thanks for being treated well by you!

It is know as the Dunn Kruger Effect. Very common in research.

Ah, a hobby psychologist chimes in
Maybe when simply chiming in, nothing useful to add to the actual topic here and judging other people without knowing them really, may be a sign of being victim of the Dunn Kruger Effect himself.
I understand that attitude, I´m a hobby psychologist myself.

 

[HarleyT]

I am disappointed because not one single individuum produced this type of gauge himself and simply tried the solution.

Lol...

Exactly!!!!

 

[HarleyT]

That type of "arrogance" is what we tend to resist...

Just as a nation of misfits.....

 

[HarleyT]

Kind of why we elected a "rude" leader.....

 

[JimM]

Lol...

Exactly!!!!

Not true. I picture Del out in his shop working diligently on one as we speak.

 

[HarleyT]

Not true. I picture Del out in his shop working diligently on one as we speak.

Well, I am sure that he is.

Speaking as a turd.....

 

[hannes69]

I would like to see a video of these gauges in use, and how the depth gauge/rubber band/File? work in reality. Just a video of someone adjusting the rakers, and how that works.

On this page you´ll find a video with the Stihl tool in action (FL1- FL5): https://www.stihl.com/sharpening-saw-chain.aspx My type 1 is the same.
The rubber band is a misunderstanding. You don´t need that and won´t use it during filing. My girlfriend was not at home when taking the photos, and I haven´t the right amount of arms to hold this thing on its place and making sharp photos in parallel. So I used the band as a simple holder, nothing else.

And have the poster not use the "language barrier" as a quick easy way out of responding to questions.

Never tried to use this technique. No need to fear something like that.

I showed a couple of examples of chain, that would cause some problems for the gauge to work.
But they were dismissed immediately. I saw no response to my questions.

I answered, at least I remember so. If not: There are no problems. At least not for type 2. it sits on a rivet and all of the bumper/safety parts of the chain find their place in the slot of the gauge.

Actually, he uses ‘our’ language better than most here.

I take this as a compliment.

Just as a nation of misfits.....
Kind of why we elected a "rude" leader

Ah yeah, what else do you want to transport in this thread? I remember talking you about your bedroom skills. And now we´re in the field of politics. Maybe it´s time for you to go to your bedroom and watch CNN (or maybe FOX hehe) instead of spoiling the thread here. Already forgotten that your role here is "THE TURD" (I like to use new learned vocabulary )

Not true. I picture Del out in his shop working diligently on one as we speak.

That´s the good news of this day Have fun, guys!

 

[HarleyT]

Lol, so you have no vids of your "work"? Just make references to Stihl's vids?

I/We would like to see a vid of your "gauges" being used. Not an imaginary image "derived" after watching a vid from Stihl's site.
So the gauge will rest on the shoulders of the rivet?

If someone brought you a chain, how long will it take you to produce a gauge that will/would work?

 

[HarleyT]

On this page you´ll find a video with the Stihl tool in action (FL1- FL5): https://www.stihl.com/sharpening-saw-chain.aspx My type 1 is the same.
The rubber band is a misunderstanding. You don´t need that and won´t use it during filing. My girlfriend was not at home when taking the photos, and I haven´t the right amount of arms to hold this thing on its place and making sharp photos in parallel. So I used the band as a simple holder, nothing else.


Never tried to use this technique. No need to fear something like that.


I answered, at least I remember so. If not: There are no problems. At least not for type 2. it sits on a rivet and all of the bumper/safety parts of the chain find their place in the slot of the gauge.


I take this as a compliment.


Ah yeah, what else do you want to transport in this thread? I remember talking you about your bedroom skills. And now we´re in the field of politics. Maybe it´s time for you to go to your bedroom and watch CNN (or maybe FOX hehe) instead of spoiling the thread here. Already forgotten that your role here is "THE TURD" (I like to use new learned vocabulary )


That´s the good news of this day Have fun, guys!

Yeah "learned" my arse.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Maybe I have not convinced anybody, true. I offered and showed something. And I tried to show some new aspects of this topic, give some advantages and disadvantages. Is it really my job to convince somebody here? Am I selling cars or insurances? You have now a tutorial, some photos and ap iece of software. You can do whatever you want with it. Maybe nothing. Say bad words about it. Like it. Use it and give no feedback. Use it and give feedback. Do something to make it better. It´s all your choice. Of course some scenarios are prefered by me, I am a human and not a machine so having some feelings.
It is not a problem for me, that my solution has no value for you. You have your own setup and choose the things that suit the best your setup.
I have found my solution for my setup and I published it in the thinking that maybe some of the millions of chainsaw users can make use of it.
If it´s not you it´s maybe another guy. No solution is suitable for everybody.
And if in the end I am the only person the solution helps, then it is like that. Even then it wouldn´t mean a waste of time to me, I made my programming skills better, I trained my English, I used my digital camera and I tried to write down a tutorial.
As I already said - nothing to loose here on my side.


What exactly do you want to say here? I shall be grateful because of the way I´m treated here? I shall be grateful because it would have been possible that I was treated way worse?
Ok, many thanks for being treated well by you!


Ah, a hobby psychologist chimes in
Maybe when simply chiming in, nothing useful to add to the actual topic here and judging other people without knowing them really, may be a sign of being victim of the Dunn Kruger Effect himself.
I understand that attitude, I´m a hobby psychologist myself.

As you have just done judging me without knowing me.
Yet I can judge some things about you. Accurately....I’ve done jobs you can never do.
Hobby? The craftsman were taught how to deal and understand such people
And if you read the other posts you will see I said we all do it.
I will comment if you want

 

[JimM]

Well, I am sure that he is.

Speaking as a turd.....

Is there a sarcasm emoji? I need to find one. I’m used to dealing with folks with a bit more ground clearance for the knuckles.

 

[HarleyT]

Is there a sarcasm emoji? I need to find one. I’m used to dealing with folks with a bit more ground clearance for the knuckles.

Sorry, I use a shotgun when in a fight....
Lots of farkers may take a pellet.