Tutorial: make your own raker depth gauge supported by software tool

[hannes69]

so you have no vids of your "work"? Just make references to Stihl's vids?

Exactly. I´m not at court to give you evidences of my work. You already have photos and now you have a Stihl video showing exactly my type 1, the handling of type 2 is the same.
And like I am not in a position to request anything of you as I have learned now, you are definitely not in the position to request anything from me. The rules apply to anyone here
I f you deliver something useful to me, maybe you can request something. We are not at this point at the moment.
When I´m answering your questions, than it´s mostly because others may ask the same questions too, and so they are already answered.

So the gauge will rest on the shoulders of the rivet?

type 2, yes.

If someone brought you a chain, how long will it take you to produce a gauge that will/would work?

type 1: when buying better Dremel attachments that are more suitable for the job, 30 minutes
type 2: if the material thickness is appropriate, 15 minutes; if not, I don´t know.

I speak of actually producing the gauge. So the numbers and measurments of the chain are already given, like the 2 chains I already measured. I consider the measuring part not as my job. I requested this to the community here in my starting post. I can add these numbers of new chains in my software.
If someone really wants me to make such a gauge specifically for his personal chain, then i would measure this chain, but then we are talking about business and money. I will not make this business as I earn money otherwise.
I´m talking in this thread about 'making your own raker depth gauge', So you have to make it on your own and if your personal chain is not already measured, then yiu have to do it yourself.
My software then allows the calculations. You can already now enter new numbers in my software and within the software there is already explained what to measure.
You won´t get a ready to use solution from me. what you get is help to help yourself.

And once again, I really don´t answer this to you, my little turdie, I already know that regardless of what I say, you´ll find something to critisize. If I understood it right, this seems to be part of the definition of the 'turd in the punchbowl'. I think in forum life they are more often simply called 'the troll'. Take whatever you like
When I´m feeling bored, I´ll maybe feed the troll

As you have just done judging me without knowing me.

Yeah, same rules for everybody.

I’ve done jobs you can never do.

So what? Everybody can do things, others can´t do. You can for sure things do that I can´t and vice versa, what´s the message?

 

[HarleyT]

Arrogance.

That is the difference....

 

[Stihl 041S]

Exactly. I´m not at court to give you evidences of my work. You already have photos and now you have a Stihl video showing exactly my type 1, the handling of type 2 is the same.
And like I am not in a position to request anything of you as I have learned now, you are definitely not in the position to request anything from me. The rules apply to anyone here
I f you deliver something useful to me, maybe you can request something. We are not at this point at the moment.
When I´m answering your questions, than it´s mostly because others may ask the same questions too, and so they are already answered.


type 2, yes.


type 1: when buying better Dremel attachments that are more suitable for the job, 30 minutes
type 2: if the material thickness is appropriate, 15 minutes; if not, I don´t know.

I speak of actually producing the gauge. So the numbers and measurments of the chain are already given, like the 2 chains I already measured. I consider the measuring part not as my job. I requested this to the community here in my starting post. I can add these numbers of new chains in my software.
If someone really wants me to make such a gauge specifically for his personal chain, then i would measure this chain, but then we are talking about business and money. I will not make this business as I earn money otherwise.
I´m talking in this thread about 'making your own raker depth gauge', So you have to make it on your own and if your personal chain is not already measured, then yiu have to do it yourself.
My software then allows the calculations. You can already now enter new numbers in my software and within the software there is already explained what to measure.
You won´t get a ready to use solution from me. what you get is help to help yourself.

And once again, I really don´t answer this to you, my little turdie, I already know that regardless of what I say, you´ll find something to critisize. If I understood it right, this seems to be part of the definition of the 'turd in the punchbowl'. I think in forum life they are more often simply called 'the troll'. Take whatever you like
When I´m feeling bored, I´ll maybe feed the troll


Yeah, same rules for everybody.


So what? Everybody can do things, others can´t do. You can for sure things do that I can´t and vice versa, what´s the message?

Responding to your statement about knowing nothing about you.

 

[HarleyT]

 

[TheTone]

Hannes69, firstly, let me say that your idea is fantastic, as you may have noted in my first comment. Some may use it and perhaps improve it. Secondly, your English is far better than some native speakers on this site; you have my admiration (2 years of German in college). Now for the howevers: it soon became apparent that there might be a couple of problems in your dealing with this site - (1) "thin skin" that is, taking criticism too personally, and (2) a perceived (by the reader) attitude of superiority rather than objectivity. The best way to handle criticism is not by defending, but rather by asking: taking what I said, how would you make it better? This not only deflects the blow, but puts the ball in the opponent's court, so to speak. Again, thank you for posting; it may take root in fertile ground.

 

[HarleyT]

Questions are not "criticism", in any country.

 

[HarleyT]

All of life can be explained in "plain geometry".

But it will not serve any practical purposes.

 

[hannes69]

I will comment if you want

Why not?
Beside that, that´s the next thing I really don´t understand, the undertone of being hostile towards me in some posts.
Either there´s a really huge amount of misunderstanding flying around here, or some of you have found an interesting target in my person.
But feel free to argue whatever you want. I think that most of the people taking part in this forum live in countries where freedom of speech is applicable, so make use of it.

-----
And it would be really nice to talk 90% about the topic here, and here and then the other 10% about things around that.
If not, it´s ok too, I personally am willing to discuss mainly on topic and then I´ll simply ignore the rest. Ok, sometimes it´s very good to go offtopic, it´s pure entertainment Had enough of that today.
Raker filing is serious business as we already know...

Responding to your statement about knowing nothing about you.

In Germany we use the following saying: "Like you shout into the forest, so it comes back to you".
It´s as simple like that.
If rude behaviour is granted to me, maybe this is reflected back. When carefully reading you should see that I´m normally not the one starting with this behaviour, it´s a natural consequence to answer such a behaviour the according way.
But so the story goes on and on... Once again at court defending myself.
Another saying in Germany: "You are right, and I find peace of my mind." Some truth in it.

Hannes69, firstly, let me say that your idea is fantastic, as you may have noted in my first comment. Some may use it and perhaps improve it.

Thanks!

(1) "thin skin" that is, taking criticism too personally

Yeah, maybe one of my weaknesses. Everyone has to learn something. Some about raker filing, some about the way dealing with criticism

(2) a perceived (by the reader) attitude of superiority rather than objectivity.

Yeah, common misunderstanding. I know that people may thinking about me being arrogant or that I´m feeling superior, but in truth it isn´t like that. Because here in the forum you only have to deal with my language, it must have to do with my kind of language (I don´t mean the language barrier thing). That´s hard to change. I only can assure that arrogance is not my purpose.

it may take root in fertile ground.

Would be nice.

 

[Del_]

Not true. I picture Del out in his shop working diligently on one as we speak.

I do find the topic of great interest.

But I haven't sharpened a chain is ten days or more.

I do plan on giving it a try.

I also plan of give Hannes a fair chance to present his topic.

 

[46 Poulan]

To make your own raker gauge or not to make your on raker gauge---That is the question!!!

 

[Westboastfaller]

I don´t understand what you are meaning here. I think that a chain with a series of various length cutters never will cut correctly. That has nothing to do with raker depth, it simply should be avoided during the sharpening. I think the human eye is very good in estimating cutter length when comparing some of them, it shouldn´t be a problem to hold them on a similar length

.

Well, even teeth would be even rakers. You make a great argument here in this sense. I wouldn't have a need for your raker file, if any raker file at all. If my teeth are maintained with 3/8 "type one gauge" then I have an option to buy a .325 husky plate gauge; so when its not getting enough bite then the .325 will sit lower. I can also go below the tie straps and butt the middle front tit up to the front of the raker instead of hooking it in the back and resting it on a one tie strap. If I needed anything more I could free hand a couple strokes from that point with accuracy.
The WHOLE ATTRACTION is more accurate numbers means I may have the ability to finally run different cutter lengths without proplems.
That's what its all about.

Your in an Engineer's world. I have done this professionaly for 30 yrs. Honestly I don't need you to talk a word of existing products at this time please.
I am vary familiar with why the saddle styles are junk. The near .060" that is needed near the end of the chain life to equal a new chain depth; is not new to me. I got these numbers, and much more, from Carlton.about 15 yrs ago in a little book called 'Everything you wanted to know about saw chain" I will share 'the much more' later.


I want to know the physical capabilities of the gauge only please, as it sits without the calculator at this time.

Its a plate with an open rectangle. The closed end of the rectangle butts up to the back of the raker to 'keep it in position'. Due to a lower front contact height it maintains more accurate numbers throughout the chains life as it sits on the rivet opposed to other plate gauges that rest on one or two tie strap. That's it right?
If a want another angle for the same chain type. I must increase.... (for more raker height) OR decrease.. (for less). .; the closed triangle end on a new gauge?

That's it right?

 

[Stihl 041S]

hannes69........
My post about the Dunn Kruger Effect was based on your input.
New to saws.......it just is a variable. That’s all
Engineering type......just a variable. That’s all
Just like altitude, saw size, cutter type, bar length, sprocket size, porting, tree size,tree type, alive or dead, how long dead, geometry of cutter, skip or not, raker height as nausium(all)
I’ve been around sharpening chains since the 50s
And tool and cutter grinding since the 70s.
We have a saying too..”This ain’t my first Rodeo”
I do not figure speeds and feeds on the lathe it mill.
There are too many variables.
It’s done by feel based on experience

And I meant perhaps.....you don’t realize how many variables get kicked into the mix of raker height.

Important? Yes

Be all end all....no.

I read a lot of “yeah but...” and reexplaining and not answering folks questions. And some folks you don’t have to. Lol

My point of diminishing returns?
I got saws from 22 to 137 cc.
6 size chains
Full Comp, semi and full skip
3 cutter profiles. Some square grind
From at least 7 manufacturers.
And the same bar fits from a 43cc to 100cc I’m building.
And I run from 16”-41” on the same saw

Fresh pine that cuts like butter.
20+ year dead locust that throws sparks.
How many gauges?

I also said we all do it. Me too I have my DOOH moments.

You started using the word Hobby.

Well they taught me that hobby at work so I could work with folks. And was proud to make all the rivets for carbon fiber for the first European fighter. We looked at ALL the variables we could.

So you told a lot about your self and I used that info.
They were variables. You made judgements about me.
Without the info.

And we have another saying to go along with the first.
“And I got a trunk full of Buckles “

Enjoy the forum. But folks here also have some knowledge and why they make the decisions they do.

They will ......let me restate that. Most will give all the help you need.

I maybe over reacted about your reactions to my posts.

If you think so. Sorry.

If I can ever help....let me know.

PAX

 

[Westboastfaller]

I'll touch on what Rob (Stihl 014s) was saying a little more. I was going to mention a few things before my second to last post that you quoted yesterday. One being careful not to talk down to people with mass amounts of hands on experience. You can not cheat nature my friend.
" Nature can not be tricked or cheated, she will give up to you the object of your struggles only when you have paid her price," ~Napoleon Hill.
I will quote a Mechanical Engineer/ saw builder that came back on here after a 6 yrs absence.
His response to a question (going on memory here) was as follows....." I'm a Mechanical Engineer so I could give you a very long and technical explanation but I learned my lesson when I did that 6 yrs ago on here. I was known as the 'Doogie Houser of chainsaws"

Lol ..before my time. The crowds were rougher then. ( Sentence above references Philbert's earlier comment also)
So you got to watch not to fall into that. We have the KISS method. Its an acronym and stands for Keep It Simple Stupid. Its a 'corporate expression' or a "what not to do when training a salesman and such.
You are making things more complicated, Take little bites at a time.

Be clear on the physical raker gauge first then move on to the software calculator and then the possibilities of people making it.
Don't fall into giving lectures about cutting so much and never wonder into that if they are not asking as you did with me. OK now I'll blow and wipe my nose and get started..lol

Note* when you multi quote with multi members in one post then it makes it a ton of work to cut everything and address you back even if a was too make manny posts.
This is a little phone and my hand are cold, stiff and numb.

Little bites and a little more direct to my questions would be very much appreciated
Thank you

 

[hannes69]

I do plan on giving it a try.

Very pleased about that

To make your own raker gauge or not to make your on raker gauge---That is the question!!!

Yeah, we already got sometimes there, that this topic seems to have a philosophical dimension (at least to me )

I am vary familiar with why the saddle styles are junk. The near .060" that is needed near the end of the chain life to equal a new chain depth; is not new to me.

Yes. I´m happy now to talk about the real topic and that we share some same opinions or facts.

Its a plate with an open rectangle. The closed end of the rectangle butts up to the back of the raker to 'keep it in position'. Due to a lower front contact height it maintains more accurate numbers throughout the chains life as it sits on the rivet opposed to other plate gauges that rest on one or two tie strap. That's it right?

Absolutely right For mathematical reasons the lower contact height leads to a better maintained cutting angle towards the end of a chain´s life. The top of the rivet was just the lowest point of the chain I found. I f you find a mechanical way to make somehow this lowest point even lower, this would be even better.
I know you want to leave alone the software for the moment, but you can use it for different purposes: Here you can play around with the numbers and you see what happens. It is not as simple that the cutting angle gets less with increasing cutter wearing, it has a certain distribution of values. So maybe the angle starts with a certain value, increases slightly during the first quarter of wearing, then decreases slightly during the second quarter and decreases a little bit more during the second half.

If a want another angle for the same chain type. I must increase.... (for more raker height) OR decrease.. (for less).

Though being much easier to produce, now we are at the weakness of type 2:
With type 1, you have two parameters you can influence: you take a metal sheet for your gauge with a certain thickness. If too thin, it will be instable and maybe bend. Too thick is more difficult to cut and the secon parameter called 'pivot length' by me gets very short which may not be desireable.
Using type 1 you mainly make use of the second parameter, the pivot length. Like the buyable ones with the two settings 'soft' and 'hard'. You take advantage of this parameter and choose now your personal 'hard' or s'soft' or in between setting and with the calculator you can calculate it and predict it.
Type 2 doesn´t have this parameter due to its easy priniciple of construction.
There you rest only with material thickness. So as I already mentioned, you are lucky at this point and common material thicknesses lead by coincidence to your desired result (but you can predict the result of course with the calculator), if not, you have to alter the thickness of your raw tool now.
And that´s an interesting point to discuss, maybe you have some ideas in this regard. I´m not so much into metal business, so...
I thought about it and I came at least to the conclusion that probably it easier to remove material than adding one, if it should be accurate. And removing in an homogenous manner is not that easy. For home-use without special equipment I thought about hand grinding and polishing. So taking something like according sand paper or the right 'powder' (don´t know the name of it) and reducing the material with circular soft movings in a meditative manner... This should remove the material evenly.
I told the story to a guy into metal business and he mentioned the use of acid. He meant that normal steel can be treated with certain acids and the result will be even. Never tried this technique, but sounds possible.

For 3/8 chain (normal and low profile) coincidence helped me and I got away with common given material thickness: For 3/8 normal profile 1.2mm (47 mil) steel leads to cutting angles in the ballpark of 6.5° - 7.0°, for 1.0mm (39 mil) stainless steel I have cutting angles in the ballpark of 7.5° - 8.5°. For 3/8 low profile chain 1.2mm steel leads to cutting angles of 6.0° - 6.5°.
I dont´have an overview of common sold metal sheet types. In Germany you can buy normal 1.2mm steel and 1.0mm stainless steel in every hardware store, it is very common.
Maybe specialized metal stores have more types offered?
And maybe there are better methods of altering metal thickness than my short mentioned ideas? Here I hope for the community´s help

 

[hannes69]

I’ve been around sharpening chains since the 50s
And tool and cutter grinding since the 70s.
We have a saying too..”This ain’t my first Rodeo”

I have a small feeling that (at least it smells a little bit like that) we are talking here about the old "craftsmen - academic - world - war".
Both worlds coexist, sometimes there are some shares, sometimes there´s confrontation.
Ideally they share much, but that´s maybe the case only for very few people. Maybe a technical engineer with a very high preference for practical work in the laboratory. There maybe the two worlds go hand in hand.
On the other side most people are more on one of the two sides, that´s the nature of it.
I stand more on the 'academic' or theoretical side. That´s my nature of person, and that fits my skills more.
I´m aware that here in the forum I´m maybe in the smaller party with this approach. Of course due to the nature of the materia here. A chainsaw is a practical machine, we do practical work with it, use it and make something out of it.
I got to the topic 'from the other side'. In fact I came to the topic of chainsaws like the German saying 'the virgin to a child'.
I always helped my father with wood work, producing fire wood for personal use in the family´s small forest. I used the axe, carried wood, helped with transport and so on. I never touched the chainsaw or felled a tree.
Last year my father died. Noone wants to sell the small family wood or let someone else do the work there. My mother and my sister won´t touch the chainsaw. So that´s my business now. Not as a duty, I like to.
I made a course learning things about security, theoretical felling techniques and so on. And the course had its practical and we did some felling and limbing work in the forest.
In the meantime I did some personal work with the saw and it makes fun. I disassembled the whole 034S leaving alone the crankcase. I cleaned all parts of it and restored faulty parts. I learned to tune the carb. I´m not capable of hand filing so I bought a small grinder and learned to use it for my needs. I worked practical with the saw and read a lot about the topic in the net, mainly in forums like this here. I came across BobL´s thread about the FOP gauge and was fascinated. Then I made my personal raker gauge, wrote the software and published all of it here. That´s the story.
I never pretended to have decades of practical chainsaw experience. I know what a skip chain is, but I don´t own one and maybe never will use one (no personal need).
My approach is theoretical because a) it suits my nature and b) because of the lack of practical experience. I have to work with what I have...
I´m very well aware that many if not the most people here in this forum know practically way way more about saws, felling, chains and so on than me.
I only concentrated isolated on one specific point of the chain story. A point that falls well into my theoretical skills.
So though lacking practical aspects, I thought that I could give something back to the community that maybe many here aren´t capable of.
I can do geometry, do calculations, do some programming. And my English is hopefully good enough to communicate this all. Development goes further, at least my software supported approach is something new, as Del_ already mentioned.
And hopefully my practical side is at least good enough to brifge over to the practical world. At least I could produce my depth gauges. And I have not two left hands as we say in Germany, I can use the chainsaw to make my own fire wood.
So maybe we can get out of this theory-praxis trap.
Some arguments here make me feel like 'here comes Mr. Clever and Smart, hiding behind words, theory, a computer, absolutely no clue about real life' and some of you are describing me like 'the king looking down to the hard working farmers'.
Simply no. It cost me some energy and time to make this all happen. This has something to do with idealism.
I hope that some of you may read between the lines what sort of person I also am.
So hopefully these 'two worlds' find together. I´m a theoretical person hopefully interested enough in practical things. And I hoped to find some people here from the 'practical side' who don´t fear using software or some theoretical explanations.

I got saws from 22 to 137 cc.
6 size chains
Full Comp, semi and full skip
3 cutter profiles. Some square grind
From at least 7 manufacturers.
And the same bar fits from a 43cc to 100cc I’m building.
And I run from 16”-41” on the same saw

Fresh pine that cuts like butter.
20+ year dead locust that throws sparks.
How many gauges?

Maybe too many for your use case?
Did I already mention that my approach is maybe not suitable for everyone´s needs
Maybe I underrated reality in this point. I assumed that many users maybe only do variations in bar length, chainsaw power, semi chisel / full chisel. Then you only need on raker depth gauge (assuming one cutting angle needed). You need more when using different chain pitches, different driving link gauges (type 2, type 1 should be independant), different cutter profiles (nomal/low profile) and different manufacturers.
I have no clue how this is distributed in reality. I only assumed that many users have this kind of setup, where the variations lead to only one or maybe two different raker depth gauges. I won´t start a poll here

Enjoy the forum. But folks here also have some knowledge and why they make the decisions they do.

Absolutely yes. See argumentation above

I maybe over reacted about your reactions to my posts.

If you think so. Sorry.

If I can ever help....let me know.

No problem. Another saying in Germany: "Who likes to deal out, will sometimes land on the receiving end".
BTW arrogance could be detected on 'both sides'. The theorist can´t understand the aversion of practical folk towards software and things like that, the practical one can´t understand the aversion of the theorist to simply work with tools and why the heck there may be reasons to work with numbers, measurements and computers all the time.
There won´t be usable results in the end if one of the sides is neglected I think.

 

[hannes69]

One being careful not to talk down to people with mass amounts of hands on experience.

Wasn´t my intention, see above my response to Stihl 041S.

The crowds were rougher then.

Then maybe I would have to decided to better not post here

We have the KISS method. Its an acronym and stands for Keep It Simple Stupid. Its a 'corporate expression' or a "what not to do when training a salesman and such.
You are making things more complicated, Take little bites at a time.

You are very right here. I´ll try to make it better in the future
One reason for it as a small excuse lies in the forum software. I can edit a post only within 24 hours. So I had the feeling that I have to pack all necesssary information into the starting post (and that was not possible due to 10000 character limitation, so there are two starting posts ). So when missing out important information, writing something wrong and so on, the corrections would follow somewhere maybe on page 10 of the thread.
There will be discussion and development, so all the information simply can´t be posted at once, but I wanted to be rather precise when starting it. Maybe a little bit overkill I admit.
And yes, I fall sometimes into the trap like 'simple is stupid and boring, complex is clever and fascinating'. My fault, yes.

OK now I'll blow and wipe my nose and get started..lol

Do that

Note* when you multi quote with multi members in one post then it makes it a ton of work to cut everything and address you back even if a was too make manny posts.

Hmm. That has to do with the manner I personally read threads. Either I read whole of a thread (not only the answers directed to my person) or I simply don´t read a thread.
But it´s no problem to split by person, if I understand it right that this is your wish.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Absolutely right For mathematical reasons the lower contact height leads to a better maintained cutting angle towards the end of a chain´s life. The top of the rivet was just the lowest point of the chain I found. I f you find a mechanical way to make somehow this lowest point even lower, this would be even better.
I know you want to leave alone the software for the moment, but you can use it for different purposes: Here you can play around with the numbers and you see what happens. It is not as simple that the cutting angle gets less with increasing cutter wearing, it has a certain distribution of values. So maybe the angle starts with a certain value, increases slightly during the first quarter of wearing, then decreases slightly during the second quarter and decreases a little bit more during the second half.

IDK
Since it pertains more to the last 1/4 or 1/3 of its life as the calculator shows, then the easiest way would to make a notch at the other end that butts into the back of the low raker. May need to widen the overhang a bit so it can't hang on a rivet. That's as low as low can be It looks like you are really close to that as it is. This way it won't alter what is optimal on the "frontend" Honestly at this point you are best to free hand another one of two flat strokes after your last gauge then run 'er home. I always tell people when teaching them how to work a progressive plate gauge is that " It's like kissing you sister...It feels strange at first but if you do it long enough, you'll get used to it.
That's not a joke about the deep south either, they don't use raker gauges OK stop..(no hate mail please people. My point is they are awkward especially with chisel chain as the raker is offset to the outside. I always do it from one side and flip the saw 180°. When the chain points to my left side pinch the bottom of the file gauge with my left hand. So there isn't hardly anywhere to grab it. No room for gloves or nothing. If I got a bit to file then I free hand it on a steeper angle then drop the gauge on. When you are at the bottom their is the most filing to do. To much messing around then its just not worth it for me personally. I also would run a fair amount of teeth and use a very high rev for limbs and brush with a lot of hook with softwoods so I find its good for just so many revolutions and the chain fly's off more noticeably one morning or one afternoon. That is not good. That beats up all the fresh parts that I need to keep fresh to prevent that. Then I have to sharper. Another down side to not using square chisel for that job. The dynamics are much different. They use their chain up and compensate with cutter top plate angles in clean wood. So they can have a higher raker then.

Yes I noticed it reached a peak angle of 7° rise at 100 and 120k (think it was) cutter wear. 125k is 1/8". That's were it declines. I was going to ask you about that. You would think it would only decline. IDK why. Its the other way around with trigonometry and finding greater degrees so its must be some other reason? Look at roofing. A 12" rise and a 12" run is a 12:12 pitch or 45°. Half your rise then it will be a 6:12 pitch like a Humboldt felling cut. but the degree
Is not 22.5 but 26.8 I think it is.
Go to 3:12 pitch and its 14+°
In plumbing they still call the fittings 22 and a half's..lol. Goes to show you they don't need trig to send **** down hill. Grade 12 Algebra yes for 4th year to calculate X amount of rain in X amount of time On X size roof..ect.
Another thing I noticed is you used the low pro for the standard raker and the reg for your raker. Can you get us the numbers for the type one with the same chain to please It kind of makes it inconclusive otherwise. As I said, I read the end numbers at the end of the chain that Carlton put out some years ago but I've never seen anything close to this kind of data. Its really cool. Its great for a guy that's teaching too. Just having the data on the charts to show the importance of a raker gauge and the right one. Its worth what its worth to the individual. I certainly see it. I could possibly see saw racing having a look at this. Its another tool other than the clock . then you have the "just a little OCD people. Never underestimate them.
Just looking at the stats helped me a lot already as far as where the teeth hit peak angle with 1/8 wear. It pays to get rid of what would be the longer teeth...sorry.. just thinking out loud..lol

 

[Del_]

Yes I noticed it reached a peak angle of 7° rise at 100 and 120k (think it was) cutter wear. 125k is 1/8". That's were it declines. I was going to ask you about that. You would think it would only decline. IDK why. Its the other way around with trigonometry and finding greater degrees so its must be some other reason? Look at roofing. A 12" rise and a 12" run is a 12:12 pitch or 45°. Half your rise then it will be a 6:12 pitch like a Humboldt felling cut. but the degree

Just a guess on my part.

The lower height of the back of the tooth combined with the greater distance between the tooth and raker comes more into play.

 

[hannes69]

Since it pertains more to the last 1/4 or 1/3 of its life as the calculator shows, then the easiest way would to make a notch at the other end that butts into the back of the low raker.

Maybe you can make that clearer what you mean exactly here. Where exactly is the notch and what influence has this notch when filing down a new full height raker and when filing down the already shortened raker of a worn chain?

That's were it declines. I was going to ask you about that. You would think it would only decline.

It´s the chain cutter´s geometry. It´s not a single parameter, it´s the combination of them. So your mentioned peak angle not always is to find on the given position, it varies depending on the chain type / manufacturer.

Another thing I noticed is you used the low pro for the standard raker and the reg for your raker. Can you get us the numbers for the type one with the same chain to please It kind of makes it inconclusive otherwise.

Here screenshots of the software, showing the numbers for 1. Stihl and gauge type1, 2. Stihl and gauge type2, 3. Carlton Low Profile and gauge type1, 4. Carlton Low Profile and gauge type2.





You see: For the normal 3/8 profile I used the 1.2mm material for both gauges, for Carlton Low profile I used 1.0mm steel for type 1, and for the gauge type 2 working correctly, it has to sit onto the rivet directly after the raker, not like one farther away for the Stihl gauge type 2!
That´s the point I already mentioned, though only having the possibility to alter the thickness of the material, you can at least choose from at least 2 different rivets to sit on. So to find out the right combination of one certain rivet with a material thickness.

Just looking at the stats helped me a lot already as far as where the teeth hit peak angle with 1/8 wear.

Glad that some of my numbers are of help

 

[Stihl 041S]

hannes69.
I’ve gotten away from the .....shall we say Engineer / Workman schools of thought.
When I worked in research I would wear my blue shop apron when I talked to the workmen and my white lab coat when I talked to the engineers. Or there was usually no respect given.
Sad isn’t it. I got a lot of respect for both sides of “The Wall”

I have a lot of different chainsaws and bars. I do use them.
When I retire I hope to do relief work full time. Always something different.

No meanness meant in any way but your use is sort of narrow.
Like driving back and forth to work on the same road every day at the same time.

My cutting at times has been driving a new road they goes from gravel to asphalt and back at high speeds ......at night.....in the rain....with poor lights. Lol always something new.

Better example. A machinist running the same CNC machine making the same part. The engineers from the tooling world and the machine tool world and the material world are going to help him trim time and costs. Less material on the casting. A little more free machining material. In the long run it all adds up.

We went to make a 2 second improvement in the time for a cars airbag for $1500 (1980s) and they wondered if it was worth it.
My Mentor .....an old Transylvanian who graduated from university in 1938 looked at them and said “can’t you do arithmetic? Not math...ARITHMETIC!!!!”
Loved that old man.......at millions of airbags a year......do the math. He was an Engineer!!!

On the other side......about 1986 a race car company set a record for a closed loop on a race course of 227 mph. $380,000 car.
Factory race car.

A privateteer, Junior Johnson( who shall go unnamed) took a then $70,000 stock car(more now!!!) and did 240......

The excuses began....other body parts can be used, different gearing....we could do better!!!

Junior said “no problem.....I ain’t tweaked all I can tweak either....when you want to do this?”

The factory team went home.

I don’t look at the other side so much anymore.....and I should......my Mentor made me look at things differently......I just see it less often.

I’ll buy a roll of chain and make a gauge. Thank you for your work.
It will be like better headlights and a road map.