Two-Stroke Oils: All the Same?

[jellyroll]

yeah yeah.

 

[jellyroll]

Do not use marine oil in air cooled motors. Marine engines run at a constant temperature whereas air cooled engines are prone to overheating. Something to do with the amount of ash in the oil.

Unless it is lawn boy engine they spec ashless oil because low ash oil will foul plugs and the cylinder with deposits.

 

[bwalker]

You likely do not have adequate insulating of your steam main lines or less then stellar drip pocket & steam traps sizing to effectively remove the condensation formation within you steam mains , prior to your steam injection points . Often drop pockets are not adequately sized to work as a cooling leg to ensure quick & effective removal of condensing steam which can be carried downstream & wreak havoc with operating equipment & instrumentation metering stations .

The line is 2" surrounded by 6" of insulation.
The control valve for the steam is approximately 50 yards away, which I believe is the main issue. It does probaly need at least one additional steam trap.

 

[bwalker]

Unless it is lawn boy engine they spec ashless oil because low ash oil will foul plugs and the cylinder with deposits.

Yep.
Lawnboy run on low ash/ air cooled type oil.

What's pictured above is a great foundation for engine destroying pre ignition.

 

[bwalker]

The ttsx is one of my favorite bullets. I run them in several calibers now.

Try the LRX. They exhibit the same non bitchy nature in regards to accuracy, but shoot slightly flatter and expand a bit quicker.
I run the LRX in 6mm, 6.5, 7mm and .308. Will start running them in .257 as soon as I can find some.

 

[bwalker]

Do not use marine oil in air cooled motors. Marine engines run at a constant temperature whereas air cooled engines are prone to overheating. Something to do with the amount of ash in the oil.

Good advice.
The ash thing refers to air cooled type oils using mettalic detergents. Marine type oils use nitrogen amine based dispersents because the mettalics cause all sorts of problems when subjected to constant throttle use.
Dispersents do not function at all above a ring belt temp of approximately 300 degrees. Hence in a air cooled motor you have ring groove and exhaust port deposit issues.

 

[Tomos770]

Summarized here....
http://kawatriple.com/tips/oil_twostroke.htm

 

[North by Northwest]

The line is 2" surrounded by 6" of insulation.
The control valve for the steam is approximately 50 yards away, which I believe is the main issue. It does probaly need at least one additional steam trap.

Also Ben , the 2" supply line to each burner should have at least a 12" of bare uninsulated vertical cooling leg with a drip leg condensate trap installed 6 " or half way from the bottom . I have found Roxal insulation ( mineral wool) the most effective within R & E values & moisture wicking & noise attenuation capacity . P.S. A blow down valve should always be installed on the drip leg for purging of any dirt & debris once a yr . Condensate drip traps also should be installed within 20 ' of any pressure , temperature control valve . Condensate drip traps should be routinely installed every 100 ' & prior to any change of direction from horizontal . We routinely utilized thermodynamic traps for mainline drips . Subcooling (-20 f) than ambient steam temperature type thermostatic bellows or bimettalic traps on critical tracing or metering lines . Larger process systems used float & thermostatic (density) traps . I always specified air vents on all steam systems on the high side to better eliminate any entrapped air or non condensibles on start up . Although another leak path to atmosphere , they always provide quick & efficient system warm up & reduction of any thermal shock or water hammer within the piping system . P.S. I only mention this due to the fact that I designed heating systems for 30 yrs . I often was shocked at how operating engineers ignored system deterioration , & waited for the maintenance personal to trouble shoot " their " operating systems deficiencies . I often had to upgrade the in house Engineering Dept. on proper Steam optimization & efficiency protocols . Also within recommendation of quality trap & valve manufacturers within Iso-9000 standards . Sarco , Yarway , Armstrong , Bestobell , Watson McDaniel & Nicholson are all fine & diversified manufacturers . Surprisingly , these Engineering associates were the same individuals who were responsible for Designing the Plants Piping Standards & Specifications lol I officially retired in 2000 , however have been contacted for numerous consultation contracts within North America . Most recently by the Michigan Corp. of Engineers last yr to do a survey of their basic boiler distribution system & condensate return systems . Have also done extensive work within the petro chemical industry & pulp & papper industry & Cruise ship industry recently . I enjoy consulting , keeps your mind active & you meet some very interesting people & challenging retro fits , & required reverse engineering in some applications brother !

 

[North by Northwest]

The line is 2" surrounded by 6" of insulation.
The control valve for the steam is approximately 50 yards away, which I believe is the main issue. It does probaly need at least one additional steam trap.

We had (12) 4" burner heads per zone . 1" 150# saturated individual aspiration steam lines dedicated for each burner with individual zone steam via reduced 30# Prv control valves . Each fuel burner was injected individually from a dedicated 2" auto controlled Pressure / Temp stainless stl. Piston Metering valve , which was fed from the boiler house dedicated 10 " 150 # process branch line .

 

[North by Northwest]

Yep.
Lawnboy run on low ash/ air cooled type oil.
View attachment 1030095
What's pictured above is a great foundation for engine destroying pre ignition.

Oh yeah , lots of localized hots spot " glowing embers " potential on that dome lol.

 

[North by Northwest]

The line is 2" surrounded by 6" of insulation.
The control valve for the steam is approximately 50 yards away, which I believe is the main issue. It does probaly need at least one additional steam trap.

A little over kill perhaps , on the insulation package standards . Only on 400 # & 600 # Super heated steam applications , did we utilize 3 - 2" layers for the specified R value of preformed mineral wool encapsulated in 2mm stainless steel foil . Burn protection or K value was also a major contributing factor for much of our piping standards for insulation products due to the numerous superheated steam distribution lines throughout the Plant facility .

 

[North by Northwest]

Unless it is lawn boy engine they spec ashless oil because low ash oil will foul plugs and the cylinder with deposits.

Absolutely , low rpm & relative lower operating temperature under 300 f of outboards & to an extent LB mowers do not tolerate ash additives well ! Some purists advise zero ash within outboard actually , however some just recommend low ash . I run. a 4 stroke outboard now , so not still in the loop anymore .

 

[Chevboy0167]

 

[North by Northwest]

Man we jumped around quite a bit lol. Had a kawasaki kh 400 triple that was given to me with a sized center piston after high school. Rebuilt it. parts were a bugger to find back then. Rode it for a summer. Some guy saw me getting gas and mixing oil in at the gas station offered me $2k for it on the spot. Ended up selling it to him about a week later. Was a hard bike to ride imo, handling wasn't the best and how the power band hit so hard made it a real pain. My old man ran 750 triples back in the day and he said it was pretty gutless compared to his old 750. Can't say I was sad to see it go back then, but I wish I had it now.

Yeah , the 1974 S3 400 triple was much like all the kawi triples , high on performance not so much on handling lol. I remember well in 1973 when at Daytona , the H2 750 triple entered a grudge race with a 1972 CB750 & 1972 Z900 , the triple & 900 kawi crossed the line side by side ! lol. The Kawasaki triples were doomed however , 1975 was the their last production run I believe & much of their firepower had been removed by then with detuning measures to meet epa. Standards .

 

[coffeebrk]

https://media.tenor.com/kpClz6FhUwgAAAAd/happy-days-the-fonz.gif
this thread has jumped the shark

 

[jellyroll]

Moral of the story use right oil and plenty of it.
Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one and they all stink.

 

[skeet88]

A little over kill perhaps , on the insulation package standards . Only on 400 # & 600 # Super heated steam applications , did we utilize 3 - 2" layers of preformed mineral wool encapsulated in 2mm stainless steel foil . Burn protection was also a major contributing factor for much of our piping standards due to the superheated steam distribution lines throughout the Plant facility .

I have enjoyed reading you and BWalker going back and forth on the steam issues and such. I can relate to some of it .I work at a paper mill that produces both parts of a cardboard box. At one time I run the dryers for one machine and now I moved up and run the wetend. Years ago we had a turbine driven line shaft that run the drives but have since upgraded to ac drives.Made life a lot simpler as for as maintenance ,runability, and safety. The turbine run on 850# steam and was not something to play with. One time someone forgot to remove the locking bar for LOTO ( 1x6x48” steel bar) before starting the turbine.Turbine didn’t even know it was there , bent it like a pretzel and kept on turning. Luckily no one was hurt but they scattered like a covey of quail.Be Safe!

 

[Czed]

Do not use marine oil in air cooled motors. Marine engines run at a constant temperature whereas air cooled engines are prone to overheating. Something to do with the amount of ash in the oil.

Boat oil here it's not all bad

I don't care what anyone uses
But I saw the pics tree monkey posted about 10 year's ago of the
Commercial saws he was porting running Schaeffer's boat oil
Even with heavy use they still looked great.
My 272 has about 4 year's on it now

I'm happy with it
But it's rising cost has me switching to Castrol go haven't tried it yet.
But I can get three quarts of it compared to one Schaeffer's now.

 

[bwalker]

A little over kill perhaps , on the insulation package standards . Only on 400 # & 600 # Super heated steam applications , did we utilize 3 - 2" layers of preformed mineral wool encapsulated in 2mm stainless steel foil . Burn protection was also a major contributing factor for much of our piping standards due to the superheated steam distribution lines throughout the Plant facility .

I forgot to mention the line is also heat traced with steam tracing.
All of our pipe is insulated with Calsil insulation and jacket with tin. Control stations are cozy coated.

 

[bwalker]

Boat oil here it's not all bad

I don't care what anyone uses
But I saw the pics tree monkey posted about 10 year's ago of the
Commercial saws he was porting running Schaeffer's boat oil
Even with heavy use they still looked great.
My 272 has about 4 year's on it now
View attachment 1030292
I'm happy with it
But it's rising cost has me switching to Castrol go haven't tried it yet.
But I can get there quarts of it compared to one Schaeffer's now.

That motor is running way rich and that's apparent. If the engine was tuned properly your piston would not look like that.
Ashless dispersent technology will not work above 300 degrees. Once you cross that threshold you will build deposits galore in the ring grooves and exhaust port.
I actually tried schaeffers in my lawn bot. Semi syn, red bottle. To me it wasn't even a great marine oil.