Two-Stroke Oils: All the Same?

[bwalker]

Today , certainly many better options !

Should be noted that H1R was brought to market as a cleaner burning alternative to MC1. It had power valve formula on the bottle IIRC.

 

[bwalker]

Good for door hinges.

Works good in the terribly designed engine that is the 4mix.

 

[sean donato]

Works good in the terribly designed engine that is the 4mix.

Still cloths the muffler screen up every third tank....

 

[jellyroll]

Still cloths the muffler screen up every third tank....

Both flavors of stihl oil is garbage it causes some nasty patches of carbon in the exhaust port of the saw. even leaves flaky black crud inside of the cylinder
Seen a 029 that was carbon scored from using it. i saved it with scotch brite and a set of new rings. that saw lives on a diet of master pro 2 cycle oil from oreilly auto.

 

[North by Northwest]

Should be noted that H1R was brought to market as a cleaner burning alternative to MC1. It had power valve formula on the bottle IIRC.

I think it was Belray 1 something , a injector only product , not a Premix . It was a fine oil back then , not so much by today's standards ! It was circa 1973 .

 

[North by Northwest]

Both flavors of stihl oil is garbage it causes some nasty patches of carbon in the exhaust port of the saw. even leaves flaky black crud inside of the cylinder
Seen a 029 that was carbon scored from using it. i saved it with scotch brite and a set of new rings. that saw lives on a diet of master pro 2 cycle oil from oreilly auto.

You can ' t run salmon oil in a low rpm 4 mix and expect miracles ! The Premium Series in the White bottle @ 50:1 was the only Stihl oil that ever cut it .

 

[jellyroll]

You can ' t run salmon oil in a low rpm 4 mix and expect miracles ! The Premium Series in the White bottle @ 50:1 was the only Stihl oil that ever cut it .

No such thing here in the states. It is either orange or silver

 

[huskihl]

I believe the Stihl HP Super in the white bottle was actually an FD rated oil but isn’t available here

 

[OM617YOTA]

Was the white bottle Stihl oil in Canada the stuff that was made by Castrol? Actually decent stuff.

 

[huskihl]

Was the white bottle Stihl oil in Canada the stuff that was made by Castrol? Actually decent stuff.

I believe stihl ultra is made by Castrol in Canada. In the US it’s made by someone else

 

[freeasaburt]

Here in W-Europe, in Belgium at least, HP Ultra is sold in a transparent 'squeeze' bottle...





On their website, it's mentioned that the performance class is JASO-FB, ISO-L-EGB . I checked a bottle I still have lying around and on the back label it mentions 'Made in Germany'.

 

[ladnar]

I'm an amateur, My collection is up to 17 saws now, some running some not, I used to use Stihl oil, because it was Stihl and expensive and I figured it was good, switched to Red Armor and my saws really woke up, can't believe an oil can make such a big difference in the way they run. Just my 2 cents,

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

I’ve been running the amsoil Saber since I started running saws close to 20 years ago, and have run their oils in every 2 stroke engine I’ve ever owned and have never lost a engine.

For my saws I mix at 48:1 for a very scientific reason which might take too long to explain but I’ll try. 8 oz of oil gives 4 equal portions per quart. 8oz of oil in 3 gallons of gas is 48:1

 

[bwalker]

I’ve been running the amsoil Saber since I started running saws close to 20 years ago, and have run their oils in every 2 stroke engine I’ve ever owned and have never lost a engine.

For my saws I mix at 48:1 for a very scientific reason which might take too long to explain but I’ll try. 8 oz of oil gives 4 equal portions per quart. 8oz of oil in 3 gallons of gas is 48:1

That's why I run 1oz per quart x 4 qt in a gallon 32:1.

 

[The Shooters Apprentice]

Sure makes life easy.

 

[North by Northwest]

I believe the Stihl HP Super in the white bottle was actually an FD rated oil but isn’t available here

Was the white bottle Stihl oil in Canada the stuff that was made by Castrol? Actually decent stuff.

Yeah , the "Premium" white bottle is Made by Castrol in Toronto Canada . It has a 141 f . flash point . Where as the " 2T Super " again white bottle by Castrol in Canada had a flash point of 171 f . both were very reasonable price & quality oils . I did not realize that they were not offered South of the Border !

 

[bwalker]

Yeah , the "Premium" white bottle is Made by Castrol in Toronto Canada . It has a 141 f . flash point . Where as the " 2T Super " again white bottle by Castrol in Canada had a flash point of 171 f . both were very reasonable price & quality oils . I did not realizebthatbthey were not offered South of the Border !

Flash point doesn't infer what people think. A low flash point just tells you two things. A. The diluent used is high quality and B. It's a multi ingredient formulation. All FD certified oils are multi part formulations. IE they use a medium weight base oil that burns clean and a heavier weight base oil like PIB or in rare cases an ester for load carry ability/ scuff resistance.
High flash point multi base oils are problematic because the diluent doesn't combust fully and this causes deposits. They also tend to lower octane because the cheap diluent are typicaly stoddard solvent. They also inhibit combustion and cause a strong smell. Oils with a high flash point that only have one base oil.
I actually tried a low ash type oil sold by the company I work for and I could tell almost immediately it was garbage because I could smell the solvent passing through the motor uncombusted and this was with a strato motor.
The other thing is on a MSDS the diluent is often listed as Stoddard solvent,naptha kerosene, etc. These are sort of blanket names for various hydrocarbon fractions of different boiling points and thus flash points. In other words you may see a MSDS that lists kerosene as the diluent and it's shows a 175 degree flash point and another that also lists kerosene as the diluent that has a 250 degree flash point. The higher one will often pass through the motor in a partially combusted or un combusted state when not subjected to high loads.

 

[North by Northwest]

Flash point doesn't infer what people think. A low flash point just tells you two things. A. The diluent used is high quality and B. It's a multi ingredient formulation. All FD certified oils are multi part formulations. IE they use a medium weight base oil that burns clean and a heavier weight base oil like PIB or in rare cases an ester for load carry ability/ scuff resistance.
High flash point multi base oils are problematic because the diluent doesn't combust fully and this causes deposits. They also tend to lower octane because the cheap diluent are typicaly stoddard solvent. They also inhibit combustion and cause a strong smell. Oils with a high flash point that only have one base oil.
I actually tried a low ash type oil sold by the company I work for and I could tell almost immediately it was garbage because I could smell the solvent passing through the motor uncombusted and this was with a strato motor.
The other thing is on a MSDS the diluent is often listed as Stoddard solvent,naptha kerosene, etc. These are sort of blanket names for various hydrocarbon fractions of different boiling points and thus flash points. In other words you may see a MSDS that lists kerosene as the diluent and it's shows a 175 degree flash point and another that also lists kerosene as the diluent that has a 250 degree flash point. The higher one will often pass through the motor in a partially combusted or un combusted state when not subjected to high loads.

Very good points . Most of the higher flash point oils I have witnessed have been problematic . Although as you mentioned. Detergency packages can resolve deposit issues effectively , I always worry that they may contribute to cooling the critical temperatures & further aggravate deposit formation due to incomplete combustion & sponge formation in the exhaust runner . Ultra via BP oil of Shreveport la. has a flash point of 432 f . & a predictable carbon deposit & excessive sponge producing effect . Your analogy Ben most likely is spot on !

 

[bwalker]

Very good points . Most of the higher flash point oils I have witnessed have been problematic . Although as you mentioned. Detergency packages can resolve deposit issues effectively , I always worry that they may contribute to cooling the critical temperatures & further aggravate deposit formation due to incomplete combustion & sponge formation in the exhaust runner !

Detergents can be problematic too. JASO FD limits sulphated ash content for this reason. What happens if you try to band aid a poor base oil formulation with extra detergent is the ring grooves and belt stay clean, but you end up with buildup of mettalic deposits on the cylinder head and piston crown which can lead to pre ignition. These mettalics are also what's responsible for plug fouling as they ground out the spark plug or increase resistance to the point that the spark is weak.
It's all a fine balance.
And for what it's worth. Sulphated ash refers to a bench test where a sample of oil is reacted with sulfuric acid. The residue left over is the mettalic portion of the oil sample and is referred to as sulphated ash. Sulphated ash has nothing to do with combustion by products like carbon, etc.

 

[bwalker]

Very good points . Most of the higher flash point oils I have witnessed have been problematic . Although as you mentioned. Detergency packages can resolve deposit issues effectively , I always worry that they may contribute to cooling the critical temperatures & further aggravate deposit formation due to incomplete combustion & sponge formation in the exhaust runner . Ultra via BP oil of Shreveport la. has a flash point of 432 f . & a predictable carbon deposit & excessive sponge producing effect . Your analogy Ben most likely is spot on !

Ultra has that high of flash point because it uses a garbage diluent and that in concert with its ashless amine based dispersent is also why it smells really bad.