ColoForester
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Saw that. About $80 or so. Might need to go that direction if a little more carb tuning doesn’t clear up the issue. Don’t want to just throw money at it.
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Upgrades to Echo CS-590
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Saw that. About $80 or so. Might need to go that direction if a little more carb tuning doesn’t clear up the issue. Don’t want to just throw money at it.
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Cliffs correct muffler modding alone will not balance the performance of your saw . To optimize your engine power you must reduce back pressure and increase fuel charge . Porting and polishing will enhance engine performance , however re jetting often is required . Depending on what size hardwood your cutting either the Echo or Husky will suffice . I have both a 460 and the 590 , the Echo is a little more Pro grade in design. Both are decent saws within their limits . My 2 yr old 576 xp will eat them for breakfast but costs $300 more lol. You would be happy with either saw !
SmellyPirateHooker
ArboristSite Guru
I can't speak for the 590, but the cs620 is awesome. Filter spacer mod and muffler mod make it run like a strong 70cc saw. Didn't have to play with the jets, just retune, but the 620 has a bigger carb then the 590. About two hours of work and it's easy. Can't wait to get into the cylinder when things get slow.
I imagine that it runs like a decent 60cc saw...
You don’t magically get 10cc out of a muffler mod.
Sheesh.
Ps, the 590 is a very good saw for the money.
You don’t magically get 10cc out of a muffler mod.
Sheesh.
Ps, the 590 is a very good saw for the money.
SmellyPirateHooker
ArboristSite Guru
Muffler mod/filter spacer mod. Which the spacer has been shown to be restrictive on the flow bench. But, the cs620 is also stronger then most 60cc saws to begin with. It likes longer bars then the Husky equivalent, stock for stock. Owning one and having larger saws, I still stand by my statement and mean it.
the timeline of mods
the basic muffler mod everyone does and loves on the 590..removed inner deflector and blend. good improvement, i think it lost a tad of smoothness though.
Then after running it another week, i did the air filter spacer mod. I didnt replace it with aluminum tube like most, I cut up the plastic one leaving only the middle blade of plastic and the two locating circles.
This got another jump of power, just about on the lines of the muffler mod but also brought back smoothness and made it more broad. This by far was my favorite of the two mods.
Then i went back to the muffler. I punched another hole on the flat next to the factory outlet is, under the outer deflector. started with a 1/2" hole and after getting a response I went to 9/16". Still got a good response. I made the outer deflector more rounded by bending it open a bit in a more rounded nature. Not sure if there was am increase because I did it when doing the last hole.
thats three good jumps in power all about equal. You can get plenty of info on what people think just the first one does and go from there.
D
Deleted member 149229
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Just bought another 590. Did my usual muff mod and removed limiter caps. I also cut the air filter spacer back to bare minimum. See if I notice a difference when I tune it. Never ran a 620 but that 590 with muff mod and a carb retune cuts way above its class.
James Miller
Addicted to ArboristSite
A 590 with the muff opened is a good saw. My ported 590 won't come close to my stock 7910. I dont see a muff modded 620 running with a good 70cc saw.
SmellyPirateHooker
ArboristSite Guru
A 7010 is 79cc, not 70. Nearly 20 more cc. So id hope not
While the 590 is a great saw and as many of you 590 owners have stated, cuts well out of its class....the 620 has a bigger carb, uncorked coil with better advance and better cylinder ports.
James Miller
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's only a 13% gain over the 590. All the changes make the 620 a little more high strung but it's not night and day like you think.
I have all three here, CS-590, CS-600P, and CS-620PW.
My CS-600P is an older model and uses a different P/C than the CS-590 and later 600's. The IPL shows a different coil as well, doesn't appear to be limited from what I can tell. It's a tad stronger than the CS-590 but not enough to start doing back-flips over.
The CS-620PW is a flat "home-run" for a 60cc saw. I love the full wrap handle, coil is unlimited and it's a very strong runner right out of the box. My CS-590 is pretty much my "go-to" saw these days. I set it up with a semi-chisel Oregon chain instead of full chisel. With the less aggressive cutters it's smoother and staying sharp a lot longer as we've been cutting a lot of tops left over from logging operations and many are a little dirty from being moved around some.
All three of mine are stock aside from modifying the deflector on the muffler a tad and removing the limiter caps and giving them some fuel. I'd add here than the CS-590 and CS-600P both needed fattened up quite a bit as they were WAY too lean right out of the box. Neither one would cut or idle well until fully heat soaked and even then they weren't very happy. The CS-620PW wasn't nearly as far off, just needing a very slight amount of fuel added at idle and in the cut. Pretty surprising to me as being WAY too lean is pretty much the standard with anything you buy from Echo right down to their leaf blowers and string trimmers. They seem to be a lot more concerned about pleasing the EPA than making sure customers don't "smoke" the P/C in their new saw or other power equipment........Cliff
My CS-600P is an older model and uses a different P/C than the CS-590 and later 600's. The IPL shows a different coil as well, doesn't appear to be limited from what I can tell. It's a tad stronger than the CS-590 but not enough to start doing back-flips over.
The CS-620PW is a flat "home-run" for a 60cc saw. I love the full wrap handle, coil is unlimited and it's a very strong runner right out of the box. My CS-590 is pretty much my "go-to" saw these days. I set it up with a semi-chisel Oregon chain instead of full chisel. With the less aggressive cutters it's smoother and staying sharp a lot longer as we've been cutting a lot of tops left over from logging operations and many are a little dirty from being moved around some.
All three of mine are stock aside from modifying the deflector on the muffler a tad and removing the limiter caps and giving them some fuel. I'd add here than the CS-590 and CS-600P both needed fattened up quite a bit as they were WAY too lean right out of the box. Neither one would cut or idle well until fully heat soaked and even then they weren't very happy. The CS-620PW wasn't nearly as far off, just needing a very slight amount of fuel added at idle and in the cut. Pretty surprising to me as being WAY too lean is pretty much the standard with anything you buy from Echo right down to their leaf blowers and string trimmers. They seem to be a lot more concerned about pleasing the EPA than making sure customers don't "smoke" the P/C in their new saw or other power equipment........Cliff
SmellyPirateHooker
ArboristSite Guru
Most who have played with the 590 agree that the carb ends up being the limiting factor with mods. The 620 has the bigger carb. So where does that 13% gain stock end up when the 620 doesn't suffer from carb restriction when doing mods? With so many things improved between the the 590 to 620 its really kind of pointless to compare what you think the 620 will do when played with. It's not apples to apples. But what I can tell you, having a 562xp on hand, stock for stock the echo does much better as the bar gets longer. At 20" they seem on par, but start burying a 24“ in oak and the echo pulls ahead. I don't have a longer bar ATM and now the echo is played with and the Husky isn't, so it wouldn't be fare to compare anyway, but my thoughts are that the difference between the two will widen as the bar length goes up. The 620 isn't just a good running 60cc saw to begin with, it's an extremely good running 60cc saw to start with. Maybe the best.
SmellyPirateHooker
ArboristSite Guru
I can't agree enough on pulling the carb limiters on these!
James Miller
Addicted to ArboristSite
The longer stroke on the echo is what gives it the extra grunt when pulling a big bar. I'd like to have the 620 coil for my ported 590 but the carb isn't worth the money as it's still not big enough to not be the choke point on the saw.
SmellyPirateHooker
ArboristSite Guru
Agreed on the stroke differences, and that was one of the reasons I went with the 620 over the Stihl and husky. I also agree that it's not worth the carb upgrade but it wasn't really my point. But more that we are comparing two saws while modding, one with a choke point and one without.
Buying an unlimited coil for a CS-590 certainly wouldn't be worth the expense. The stock 590 coil has a pretty high "cut-in" point and I very seldom get anywhere near it unless I'm trimming up some small limbs or really light work.
What I like most about the CS-590 is the price, can be had for half the cost of a CS-620PW and nearly as much saw. The 15 or so percent power difference really isn't noticed with a 20" bar as I have ran both on each of mine. The CS-620PW does seem to have a slightly smoother power curve, and really loves RPM's, but grunting away in most of what we cut here I never find myself running the CS-590 and looking down at it and wishing it had more power........Cliff
What I like most about the CS-590 is the price, can be had for half the cost of a CS-620PW and nearly as much saw. The 15 or so percent power difference really isn't noticed with a 20" bar as I have ran both on each of mine. The CS-620PW does seem to have a slightly smoother power curve, and really loves RPM's, but grunting away in most of what we cut here I never find myself running the CS-590 and looking down at it and wishing it had more power........Cliff
What I found on a like new one I picked up in 590. They like it fat around 12.1K and pulled them red carb stops to richen up. They come to lean from the factory for sure.
This one was still running good at 140psi. Had I not pulled muffler for mod I would have not even known that it had started to score on past owner use over fall winter.
So threw in a new piston kit from Nate's shop.
Maybe the bigger 620 carb with the muffler mod would be the only thing (if carb needed replaced for some reason). But on a stock saw it is fine.
This one was still running good at 140psi. Had I not pulled muffler for mod I would have not even known that it had started to score on past owner use over fall winter.
So threw in a new piston kit from Nate's shop.
Maybe the bigger 620 carb with the muffler mod would be the only thing (if carb needed replaced for some reason). But on a stock saw it is fine.
James Miller
Addicted to ArboristSite
Did you check comp after the new top end by chance?
Nope it was on first tank still when new owner got it.
There is some good info on these from way back between 2 guys trying stuff. Before we knew what was going on with 620 etc. Looks at the very beginning reads. http://chainsawrepair.createaforum.com/echo/cs-590-wolf-review-bone-stock/
