used motor oil for bar oil

[garmar]

I didn't get that comparison at all. What I got was that he was comparing the mentality that some people have of spending a lot money on something then treating it like junk by not caring for it properly. And good chainsaws are expensive.

Who said they aren't treating it properly? I think this whole thread can be considered a discussion of whether or not using used motor oil could be considered "treating it properly". The only down-side to using used motor-oil is that it does, in fact, make a big mess. But as long as the operator cleans the saw up it doesn't make any difference. You're making a false conclusion that using used motor oil is not proper, when in fact, you should be presenting evidence to support your claim that using used motor oil isn't proper.

I'm not recommending that anybody should use used motor oil, I already admitted that I don't use it myself. I'm just presenting information so that people can make up their own mind on using it. It's not going to hurt your chainsaw; comparing an engine with tight tolerances and soft bearings to a chainsaw with very, very loose tolerances and a hardened steel b&c is not an accurate comparison as far as the actual mechanics of b&c vs. motor oil goes. Rather than make unsubstantiated claims about "not taking care of equipment" and "you wouldn't do that to your car" why not actually present some information on it?

You seem to have a hard time with reading comprehension, dontcha?

If you read my post I was explaining my take on another misunderstood post, not drawing any conclusions. I did that on page 1.

And yes, my opinion is that using anything other than the manufacturers recommended lubricant as chain oil is misuse of the tool. I'll not impose judgment on the practice of using clean motor oil in cold weather, but used oil? I don't think so; especially not in my new Stihl chainsaw I paid dearly for. I wouldn't even do that to a Poulan.

The OP asked for opinions and got them.

 

[dingeryote]

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...+used+motor+oil+poses+hazard+to+public+health

And even the Backwards Paki's are figuring out used motor oil ain't good for your health...and maybe even deadly.

KU analysis

The KU laboratory collected samples of used motor oil from 15 sites across the city. According to the analysis, the average level of concentration of different metals found in the samples was: lead 110ppm (parts per million), zinc 685ppm, barium 18.1ppm, arsenic 5ppm, cadmium 2.5ppm and chromium 3.2ppm.

The soil contaminated with used motor oil had about 100ppm arsenic, 20ppm cadmium, 1,800ppm lead and 285ppm barium. All these metals, the research says, are highly toxic with carcinogenic and teratogenic properties. Any direct contact with the skin is, therefore, extremely dangerous. In view of the complex nature of the used lubricants, it is necessary to consider the cumulative effect of the exposure to used lubricants, warns the KU study.

The increase in concentration of metals in soil occurs mainly due to accumulation. Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), which are formed on account of combustion in motor engines, could concentrate up to 1,000 times more in used motor oil, the research says. PAHs are known to be highly toxic environmental contaminants with carcinogenic and mutagenic properties.

“The spray of a fine mist containing a high concentration of metals and hydrocarbons is a serious health hazard not only for men working at service stations but also for customers standing nearby. Persistent human exposure over a long period can even cause cancer while onlookers inhaling fumes of harmful oils may also develop nose, throat and skin infections,” said Dr Nasiruddin.

Regarding the disposal of used oil in the environment, he said used oil was to a certain extent biodegradable and its disposal in the atmosphere carried serious risks to natural systems. Improper disposal could contaminate soil and underground water and damage the sewerage.

Dawn spoke to a number of workers at various service stations in the city about the use and disposal of used motor oil. It came to light that used motor oil is either sold for different purposes or utilised for servicing of vehicles. “We sell it to people involved in shuttering businesses. They buy 205 litres for Rs4,000,” said a worker at a service station in Saddar. To protect vehicles from rust, used oil is sprayed under the floor of vehicles and on the floor of public buses, he said. When asked about any health problems that they might face, a majority of workers replied in the negative while others said they had now become used to the foul smell of the oil.

Patients at hospitals

According to specialists at major public sector hospitals, skin ailments caused by exposure to contaminated and toxic oil were very common because people were generally unaware of the extent of the damage the oil could cause to their bodies and if they were concerned about health issues, their employers showed the least concern.

Dr Sikander Mehar of the Sindh Institute of Skin Diseases said: “Around a dozen people, most of them between 10 and 20 years of age working at auto service stations, report every week at the institute. Generally, they have allergic contact dermatitis, developed due to contact with allergens and irritants. The symptoms include itching, redness, skin damage and bristles.”

Agreeing with this, Dr Azam Samdani of the Jinnah Postgraduate Medical Centre added that hydrocarbons present in used motor oils had a damaging effect on health, especially skin because of direct exposure. This could cause mild to severe reactions depending upon the duration and intensity of exposure. Often people come with eczema, at times with secondary infection, he said. Though he agreed that skin infections caused by exposure to contaminant oils was a common hazard and could lead to occupational disability, he rejected the possibility of development of skin A service station worker, wearing no protective clothing, uses the water jet from a pipe to spray used motor oil, kept in a receptacle, onto the underside of a

cancer in a short period.

Regarding any possible effects on eyes, Dr Idrees Edhi, an eye specialist at the Civil Hospital Karachi, said: “Eyes are seriously affected. Most patients come with scars of foreign bodies. If the eyes of 100 mechanics are examined, 70 of them would have scars of foreign bodies, which if not taken out on time, can cause a loss of vision. Toxic fumes also affect the front portion of the eyes and cause infections.”

Prolonged exposure to benzenes found in petrochemical compounds causes bladder cancer, according to Dr Altaf Hashmi at the Sindh Institute of Urology. “The link between bladder cancer and benzene compounds was established in 1854 in Germany at a rubber industry. Absorbed through skin or inhaled, the traces of the compounds are detoxified in the liver, but they are re-activated when they are released from kidneys upon reaction with a chemical. The latent period for disease is from 20 to 25 years, though it doesn’t pose any immediate hazard.

“Secondly, not all patients develop bladder cancer. According to the research, of the 18 per cent people who developed bladder cancer at the rubber industry, 40 per cent were smokers. The actual mechanics that work in the development of the disease is still not known.”


Meh.
Menards has thier bar oil on sale for 6 bucks a gallon.
It's cheaper than Chemo and dialysis twice a week.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[CountryBoy19]

What about the oil under the chain?What about the tip, the rim sprocket?So it`s ok to add more dirt and particles?How about the oil pump?Is it designed to pump metal shavings and dirt.Viscosity and tact do matter.All the oil doesn`t get flung off.Thats why it`s important to use oil with a higher viscosity and tact.New oil sticks better, thus protecting, lubing and cooling the bar and chain better.If you use motor oil that is too thin you also run the risk of running out of oil before the saw runs out of fuel.And, oh ya, if your brother Jim Bob is so smart and uses old stinkin motor oil in his saw, why don`t you.I don`t need a scientific study, I just told you the reasons why new oil works better than oil motor oil.It`s common sense.The used oil has lost much of it lubing capabilities.It CAN~T work the same.It is inferior to new bar oil..There are at least 10 reasons not to use it, and only one reason to use it.Price...

The used oil hasn't lost it's lube capabilities, you don't seem to get that yet.

You didn't even address my economics scenario other than trying to insult me. Are you admitting defeat on that? Even if there were 10:1 reason not to use it the economics of using it still out-weigh the reasons not to.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree... you obviously don't understand it... that's ok.

You seem to have a hard time with reading comprehension, dontcha?

If you read my post I was explaining my take on another misunderstood post, not drawing any conclusions. I did that on page 1.

And yes, my opinion is that using anything other than the manufacturers recommended lubricant as chain oil is misuse of the tool. I'll not impose judgment on the practice of using clean motor oil in cold weather, but used oil? I don't think so; especially not in my new Stihl chainsaw I paid dearly for. I wouldn't even do that to a Poulan.

The OP asked for opinions and got them.

It doesn't matter if you were explaining another post or not, you were still drawing conclusions, and drawing them out of thin air to boot. So if your manual recommends to run their brand of mix oil would you consider it misuse if you used another brand? No because other oils can be equivalent... I'll just let you think about that one...

 

[fatjoe]

The used oil hasn't lost it's lube capabilities, you don't seem to get that yet.

You didn't even address my economics scenario other than trying to insult me. Are you admitting defeat on that? Even if there were 10:1 reason not to use it the economics of using it still out-weigh the reasons not to.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree... you obviously don't understand it... that's ok.




It doesn't matter if you were explaining another post or not, you were still drawing conclusions, and drawing them out of thin air to boot. So if your manual recommends to run their brand of mix oil would you consider it misuse if you used another brand? No because other oils can be equivalent... I'll just let you think about that one...

I admitted that PRICE was the only good reason to use it.I`ve got two Apple trees in my yard, they produce apples,I could eat them, but I BUY apples that are better.It has lost it`s lubing ability. because it DOESN~T stick to the bar as good.How can it lubricate if it just runs off like water!!! It doesn`t STICK!!!!! God, are you that stubborn!!!!It has lost it`s Viscosity, Tack and filming ability!!!!Do you understand!!!!!It has been heated and cooled so much that it has lost these Characteristics!!!!Getting it free is the only advantage.That it!!!It is not good for your saw!!!I addressed your economic issue.Yes, the fact that it is free, you could save money, but when you treat youer equiptment poorly, you start to not care about it.When it gets dirty and ratty looking, you tend to treat it worse.Leaving it in the back of the truck, in the rain etc.etc..So, I don`t believe using dirty oil is really economically good.Treat your saw like shat, pretty soon it is shat!!!

 

[fatjoe]

You didn`t address the oil pump issue.If the viscosity is way low, wouldn`t the oil be pumped out faster?Aren`t these pumps designed to pump thicker oil?Couldn`t the oil run out before the gas on very hot days?Wouldn`t that lead to overheating the bar and chain??

 

[super3]

The used oil hasn't lost it's lube capabilities, you don't seem to get that yet..

Then why are you pissin away money draining it out of your car,truck,tractor,what ever. If it still has it's lube capabilities,leave it in there.

 

[garmar]

It doesn't matter if you were explaining another post or not, you were still drawing conclusions, and drawing them out of thin air to boot. So if your manual recommends to run their brand of mix oil would you consider it misuse if you used another brand? No because other oils can be equivalent... I'll just let you think about that one...

Actually, that's exactly what you're doing by making assumptions. You did the same thing with the post I was referring to.

And ironically enough you've made a comparison similar to the one you were scoffing at earlier. There's a HUGE difference between using, say, Husky oil in a Stihl and using used motor oil in the place of bar and chain oil. Or did I misread your reply to this post?

It really amazes me that people will pay big money for a saw and then discuss something so rediculous as putting used oil on the bar. Many do the same with cars. They buy a $30,000+ car and put cheap Wal Mart oil in it vs a good quality synthetic or something that will take care of their investment.

If you are sucker enough to pay $15 for a gallon of bar oil, then so be it, but bar oil can be had generally a couple times a year on sale at farm stores for $6 or $7 dollars a gallon.

Actual bar oil flings off badly enough. I cannot even imagine what a mess that used oil makes. The cancer, environment etc. etc. is pure nonsense unless you are bathing in the stuff, but is just another reason not to use the old oil.

I'll stick to the real thing for my use.

I think it's comical that people make comparisons like this.

The engine in your car is a lot more complicated, it's a larger percentage of the vehicle cost to replace it. Sure, it seems absurd to save $20 a year at the risk of a $10,000 engine replacement; but it's not quite as absurd when you start to get into the arena of saving $25 a year at the risk of a $50 bar/chain replacement or $50 for an oil pump.

For the most part, oil is oil, regular motor oil will lubricate a bar and chain just as good as b&c oil. Even without the tackifiers the parts are still being lubricated. Tackifiers don't matter a whole lot at 13,000 rpm, the oil is still slinging off the end. An oil pump will even pump regular oil just fine. Putting aside the safety/environmental arguments (which I personally don't buy into) the only thing that I would imagine may cause problems would be particulates in the oil. 99% of the particulates are small enough that they likely won't harm anything, especially the B&C. Think about it, the B&C is already covered in particulates (chips, dust, dirt, worn metal particles from one or the other etc); the addition of more particulates isn't going to make a noticeable difference because the oil isn't being recycled, it's there to lubricate the B&C for a few passes of the chain and it is then washed away by the new oil streaming in. The oil used in a chainsaw for B&C is a sacrificial oil that is used to wash away other particulates and foreign materials.

Comparing a cars engine to the B&C of chainsaw is completely ludicrous; if you really think they're a similar comparison then you clearly don't understand how one or the other, or even both of them work.

So, your argument is that since it costs much less to replace a pump/bar/chain than to replace parts on a vehicle it's okay to use whatever you like in a chainsaw?

And if oil that runs onto the bar is just for washing away particulates and foreign materials then why not just use water - it's a passable lubricant. And that stuff is really cheap to boot. (see how I drew a wrong conclusion from something you wrote?)

 

[CountryBoy19]

You didn`t address the oil pump issue.If the viscosity is way low, wouldn`t the oil be pumped out faster?Aren`t these pumps designed to pump thicker oil?Couldn`t the oil run out before the gas on very hot days?Wouldn`t that lead to overheating the bar and chain??

With a stock oil pump you shouldn't have that problem, period. If you've turned your oil-pump up, then you obviously have the ability to turn it back down if the tank is running out before the gas. See how easy that was?

Then why are you pissin away money draining it out of your car,truck,tractor,what ever. If it still has it's lube capabilities,leave it in there.

You didn't even read the thread did you?

So, your argument is that since it costs much less to replace a pump/bar/chain than to replace parts on a vehicle it's okay to use whatever you like in a chainsaw?

Well, not exactly. My argument is that running used motor oil isn't going to cause any damage, and even if damage did occur, you're not losing any money because the cost of anything you have to replace was exceeded by the savings of not buying b&c oil.

And if oil that runs onto the bar is just for washing away particulates and foreign materials then why not just use water - it's a passable lubricant. And that stuff is really cheap to boot. (see how I drew a wrong conclusion from something you wrote?)

I never said that was it's only purpose, you're taking that out of context. That is one of it's primary jobs, washing away debris; it's other primary job is lubrication. But to address your question about water, water can actually be used as a lubricant, but you would have to run a lot more water because it doesn't have very good lubricating properties compared to oil.

 

[garmar]

I never said that was it's only purpose, you're taking that out of context. That is one of it's primary jobs, washing away debris; it's other primary job is lubrication. But to address your question about water, water can actually be used as a lubricant, but you would have to run a lot more water because it doesn't have very good lubricating properties compared to oil.

Again, did you read my post?

I underlined the pertinent part for you. (that's sarcasm if you still don't get it) :biggrinbounce2:

And if oil that runs onto the bar is just for washing away particulates and foreign materials then why not just use water - it's a passable lubricant. And that stuff is really cheap to boot. (see how I drew a wrong conclusion from something you wrote?)

 

[builder1101]

i guess i'll post my opinion...

been filling up with used motor oil for 10 years

dad has been doing it for 40 years

last year i cut 20 cord, and still had a healthy chain, although i ripped a few teeth off snagging nails. and occasionally a knot will rip pretty good, i was drinking one night and got a bit wild taking down the rackers...

if it's a manual oiler, pump it more often
if it's automatic, just open her all the way.

i figure if used motor oil is clean enough to run in an engine which requires:

polished crank journals
on soft bearing babbit
with only 15-20PSI
having .0005" clearance
with god only knows how much down force from the piston combustion

then it's more then good enough to lube a chain whirling in circles...

and yes, you still need to grease the roller if you have a roller nose...and i hate 'em, i'll spend the extra money on a solid-non roller nose bar anyday.

but back to the oil, in any case, it's not recommended for the enviroment, but, i squeak when i walk....

 

[super3]

You didn't even read the thread did you?

Every post, every word. Again, you are the one claiming it has not lost it's lube capabilities,why change it?

Proof? Have you done any scientifically controlled studies or do you have any results from such studies?

Have you? All I see is an opinion.
Now, Jim Bob is thinking running used motor oil that he gets for free (some could even counter that they normally have to pay to dispose of used oil but we'll ignore that) when he changes his oil. He buys his bar and chains for $100, but only gets 90% of the life out of them. So his cost for 90% of a year is $100 vs. his cost of $154.80 for 90% of a year when running b&c oil in his saw.

Oh, there's that scientific evidence!

I'm still waiting on your evidence also. Can you please provide some evidence to support your claim that used motor oil is crap?

Same here , where's yours.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Every post, every word. Again, you are the one claiming it has not lost it's lube capabilities,why change it?

You should just stop posting before you make yourself look like even more of a fool. Please, do us all a favor, the answer to the question you're asking has been posted AT LEAST 2 times already.



QUOTE=super3;2508764]Oh, there's that scientific evidence!



Same here , where's yours.[/QUOTE]
I'm not the one claiming that something that people have done successfully for decades won't work. I want to see evidence that it won't work because so far all I've seen is a lot of first-hand stories of people that have done it and say it works fine (other than the mess) and a whole bunch of people that say it won't work. VERY FEW people have posted in here that they've done both and used motor oil doesn't work or it ruins things. Many of the people that have run both have stopped doing so because of the mess. How is that for evidence? Now, where is the evidence to the contrary?

 

[super3]

I'm not the one claiming that something that people have done successfully for decades won't work. I want to see evidence that it won't work because so far all I've seen is a lot of first-hand stories of people that have done it and say it works fine (other than the mess) and a whole bunch of people that say it won't work. VERY FEW people have posted in here that they've done both and used motor oil doesn't work or it ruins things. Many of the people that have run both have stopped doing so because of the mess. How is that for evidence? Now, where is the evidence to the contrary?

I guess your definition of "successful" is a lot different than mine. The opinions that i've seen here is that it wears parts prematurely not that it won't work.

Do a little searching old threads, plenty of posts from long time saw wrenches on premature parts failure on saws running used oil.

 

[4seasons]

Read this

For everyone who keep saying used oil doesn't have it lubricating properties, read on this web site how a truck has ran 1,000,000 on one oil change.
http://gulfcoastfilters.com/1,000,000 MILES.htm
Now tell my how oil than has been in your car for 3,000-5,000 miles wont lube your 20 inch bar for a few laps of the chain. If you do some more reading on that site you will see that oil gets to dirty to keep using in an engine as it starts carrying particulates. By removing the particles in the oil the life of the oil is extended by huge margins. Now if you want to run bar oil because it is stickier and will stay on the bar longer that is fine. I do the same thing, but in really cold weather my bar oil won't pour out of the bottle so it won't be able to lube the bar because I can't get it in the saw. I still haven't seen anyone provide evidence of saw damage due to used oil. Now it may have happened, but if it was so common someone would have posted a link or two to incidents where that was the case.
Now I can understand people that don't want to sling dirty oil all over the place, but if you are using clean oil in the saw you are still flinging oil off the chain so the difference is really in how dirty the oil you fling is. Personally I get way more oil on myself just changing the oil in my car one time than I have ever got on me sawing in the woods. By the way, for the "but it causes cancer" crowd, I'm still waiting for someone to show me a case of fingernail cancer from the buildup of old oil under their mechanics fingernails. Lets not forget that the centers that research all these cancer causing materials get their funding through donations and grants. If they said there is no evidence that something causes cancer the funding would be cut off. The people doing the research and the people writing the papers on results know this and will make the results get them more funding. The only way they wont benefit would be if they went for a company or industry that would fight back to disprove the results. So who would fight them on used oil research? Not the oil company, they want to sell more oil so get rid of old oil and buy new. Not the recycle centers that handle the stuff, because they want you used oil, more business, more funding. How about the mechanics and quick oil change places? No, if you're scared to touch the stuff more business for them.

 

[fatjoe]

WOW!!! That one filter could save the planet!!You better buy two!!!

 

[dingeryote]

Used Motor oil will still have adequate lubricating propertys for light presure and light shear resistance application...I.E. Bar oil.
No controversy. Friggin' Mazola will likely be adequate, and I don't doubt unsalted butter might work.

Filering removes abrasive particulates. That's better for the pump to deal with.

So what about the corrisive, Toxic, carcinogenic, and other negative content?

In the case of this wonder filter, I also seriously doubt the molecular structure of the oil is magicly restored, and the loss of pressure/shear resistance would easily be demonstrated. You can run a small block Chevy for 50,000 miles on 0W-20 instead of 10W-30, and that IS what is going on with that 100,000 mile oil change, along with a toxic corrosive cocktail forming.

The real question shouldn't be "Can you run used motor oil", it should be "Is it an intelligent and informed practice, to consistently run used motor oil, for Bar oil". It's a Free country. If a guy wants to dip his Cigar in arsenic and smoke it, ya wont hear me telling him he can't.
Just don't ask me if it's dumber than a stump to do so.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Wood Doctor]

Stumps may be smarter

Dingeryote said "If a guy wants to dip his Cigar in arsenic and smoke it, ya wont hear me telling him he can't. Just don't ask me if it's dumber than a stump to do so."
---------------
To which the Doctor replies:

Some stumps are smarter than that and more benevolent. This past weekend I watched a freshly cut cottonwood tree stump offer me a drink of water from one of its cavities when I was thirsty. Looked pretty clean and I should have accepted it.

 

[builder1101]

oh boy.
so drian your motor oil, let it sit for 10 years.

skim the top and reuse it..

so actually what did we learn on this thread?

all i know is i've never witnessed, nor accomplished, with much effort, in every way or any way possible, from crisp sharp teeth, to dull teeth, too low rackers, too high rackers, worn/uneven bar, loose/worn nosewheel, worn out sprocket or slightly bent bar; to get the bar/chain links so hot they to the point of turning blue; which results in temper loss of the iron/steel composites, while using 'used motor oil' as a lubricant strictly.

'nuff said.

used motor oil is a good lubricant, it's just full of #### and floaties that it's filtered out from the engine of what the spin on wasn't capable of...

well maybe, but it would filter so slow to catch all the floaties you'd have to plumb a filter with surface area of a 55gal drum to satisify the draw of the pump..

 

[builder1101]

the spin on wasn't capable of...

note;

cheap oil filters and frequent oil changes outweigh a seized engine from pump starvation...

 

[fatjoe]

oh boy.
so drian your motor oil, let it sit for 10 years.

skim the top and reuse it..

so actually what did we learn on this thread?

all i know is i've never witnessed, nor accomplished, with much effort, in every way or any way possible, from crisp sharp teeth, to dull teeth, too low rackers, too high rackers, worn/uneven bar, loose/worn nosewheel, worn out sprocket or slightly bent bar; to get the bar/chain links so hot they to the point of turning blue; which results in temper loss of the iron/steel composites, while using 'used motor oil' as a lubricant strictly.

'nuff said.

used motor oil is a good lubricant, it's just full of #### and floaties that it's filtered out from the engine of what the spin on wasn't capable of...

well maybe, but it would filter so slow to catch all the floaties you'd have to plumb a filter with surface area of a 55gal drum to satisify the draw of the pump..

You shouldn`t use it at all, it`s bad for the environment.All you learned is that you use it and think it`s ok.Would it void your warranty on a new saw?Is it good for the environment?Should every saw owner in America start using old oil?Or is it just ok for a few hundred thoudsand of you to pollute our forests?Do you know that 1 gallon of used motor oil can cantaminate 1 million gallons of water?Like I said before, there are at least 10 reasons NOT to use it, and only 1 reason to use it..It`s selfish and stupid..