Veggie oil?
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55 gallon drum all season chain/bar oil, from a local industrial supplier $95 cdn
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
Machine,
Last i bought bar oil was from walmart at $3.88/gall. (walmart brand). A store across the street has a couple of different brand that is 3.88-6/gal.
The store across the street also has 5gal veggie oil for about 25/5 gal.
We have no sams here in my town.
veggie oil at walmart is close to $5/gal.
Last i bought bar oil was from walmart at $3.88/gall. (walmart brand). A store across the street has a couple of different brand that is 3.88-6/gal.
The store across the street also has 5gal veggie oil for about 25/5 gal.
We have no sams here in my town.
veggie oil at walmart is close to $5/gal.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's honest info, Okie. Thank you.
How about some more prices, just so we have a better cross reference, maybe go with an average. Let's find and agree on an average price, realistic across the board. I have some photos to bring this price topic more to life. It's important, there's no denying.
Hey Alaska, your sub-freezing question is important, too. I'd like to answer that with pictures also, so give me a day or so on that.
More prices, guys. Veggie and bar.
How about some more prices, just so we have a better cross reference, maybe go with an average. Let's find and agree on an average price, realistic across the board. I have some photos to bring this price topic more to life. It's important, there's no denying.
Hey Alaska, your sub-freezing question is important, too. I'd like to answer that with pictures also, so give me a day or so on that.
More prices, guys. Veggie and bar.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's a personal choice. The word from veggie oil users is it works perfectly well. That knowledge is nothing new, so your results will be the same. We just don't recommend it if you let your saw sit for long periods, like a couple months between uses. Veggie is biodegradable. Residual oil on the bar is spread thin and exposed openly to oxygen, and will result in oxidation. Inside the sealed tank and in the oiler mechanism there is very limited amounts of oxygen as this is a closed system. Also the tocopherol added at processing (an antioxidant) stabilizes the oil and extends the shelf life. I have one saw I filled with canola in March 1, 2006, and then put it up on a shelf. I'll open it up, check it out and run it on the one year date. This is a test, just to know what would happen.
What are prices for grocery vegetable oil and commercial bar oil up in Alaska?
What are prices for grocery vegetable oil and commercial bar oil up in Alaska?
Yeah my chainsaw probably won't get much use, point taken. Trees up here are very small compared to the lower 48's (long winters ). My hand saw accomplishes most of my limb pruning. I like hands on manual pruning, even border shrubs if at all possible.
I'll get back to you on veggie vs. oil pricing for Alaska.
--- AK
I'll get back to you on veggie vs. oil pricing for Alaska.
--- AK
sawsong
ArboristSite Member
hi guys. this is my first post on the site but ive been reading with great interest. having recently been considering making the move from employed to self employed, all costs of course have to be considered in my business plan. before coming across this site i had wondered about using 'vegi' type oils in the oiler as a lot of people i know are starting to use it as a mixed fuel in their diesel cars and noticing incredibly quiet and smooth running.
upon reading this i decided to use it on my 019t and my dad's ms290 that he uses on the farm and often on the trees by watercourses. as it goes, we actually grow oilseed rape on the farm and i believe the oil we can readily get hold of here is rape oil rather than the canola you have stateside. I have a little investigation to do but im thinking currently it may well be the higher lubricating variant mentioned earlier in this thread. the other plus to the price being im a bit of an eco nut really where i can manage it
thanks again guys. i can see im gonna enjoy it here and learn a lot. hopefully i shall soon be able to contribute something worth while back.
James
edit: here comes my something to contribute hehe. just spoke to my father and unfortunately the rape we grow will be LEAR because it is determined by the variety, same part of the plant, same process, different variety. HEARs are still grown in the uk but almost exclusively for their lubrication uses.
heres the bit to look out for. now varieties have been bred to have low (glucosomol) content which are known as 'double lows' and for companies such as burger king etc to cook with, low fatty acid oils which aparently have a longer active cooking time or something like that. now, what this spells for use in chainsaws, im not entirely sure. but it does seem to point to the idea of supermarket shelf oil being more specifically tailored for cooking and losing yet more of its original rape oil lubricative properties.
most of that is fact, but the last bit is merely my laymans speculation. hopefully it is of some interest
upon reading this i decided to use it on my 019t and my dad's ms290 that he uses on the farm and often on the trees by watercourses. as it goes, we actually grow oilseed rape on the farm and i believe the oil we can readily get hold of here is rape oil rather than the canola you have stateside. I have a little investigation to do but im thinking currently it may well be the higher lubricating variant mentioned earlier in this thread. the other plus to the price being im a bit of an eco nut really where i can manage it
thanks again guys. i can see im gonna enjoy it here and learn a lot. hopefully i shall soon be able to contribute something worth while back.
James
edit: here comes my something to contribute hehe. just spoke to my father and unfortunately the rape we grow will be LEAR because it is determined by the variety, same part of the plant, same process, different variety. HEARs are still grown in the uk but almost exclusively for their lubrication uses.
heres the bit to look out for. now varieties have been bred to have low (glucosomol) content which are known as 'double lows' and for companies such as burger king etc to cook with, low fatty acid oils which aparently have a longer active cooking time or something like that. now, what this spells for use in chainsaws, im not entirely sure. but it does seem to point to the idea of supermarket shelf oil being more specifically tailored for cooking and losing yet more of its original rape oil lubricative properties.
most of that is fact, but the last bit is merely my laymans speculation. hopefully it is of some interest
Last edited:
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
OK, does everybody have it out of their system now? Can we be done with the Village People, and Donny and Barry and insulting one another?
Good Grief. There's an 'Off the topic' forum where you can say anything you want. For here, if it's not too much to ask, could we talk about vegetable oil as it relates to lubricating a bar and chain in a chain saw system?
PLEASE?
Good Grief. There's an 'Off the topic' forum where you can say anything you want. For here, if it's not too much to ask, could we talk about vegetable oil as it relates to lubricating a bar and chain in a chain saw system?
PLEASE?
Kneejerk Bombas
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In a recent cold snap, my vegi oil was frozen solid, the bar oil was still liquid.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
True, Mike and 046. Good time to discuss this. At these bitter, low temperatures, a lot of companies just stay home. Not us, though.
Here are some things to consider.
Vegetable (soybean) oil and corn oil will reach their 'freezing point' and turn into a gelacious slurry. This temp is somewhere around 18 to 24 degrees F (~ -8 to -4 C) for these two oils. Further temperature drop and the pourable slurry goes from pourable to 'squeezable' (see the picture below taken at 15 degrees F (-9.4 C)).
Canola, on the other hand, has a much lower freezing point, and a wider range between where the the oil goes from liquid oil to an easily pourable semi-liquid and then to a 'squeezable' white semi-solid. I've found this low-end 'cutoff' temperature of Canola, where you actually would choose to put it in the cab of your truck, or bring it in overnight, to be in the range of zero to around 5 below zero Fahrenheit (-18 to -20 C).
Be aware of this, though. Only a few degrees increase (like warming your saw up) and the veggie liquifies. One of the benefits I see is that veggie oil has a very consistent viscosity throughout the entire temperature range of where we'd use it, right down to the very low temperature point where the slurry goes from pourable to extrudable.
Regular bar oil, on the other hand, the viscosity changes greatly as the temperature drops. It gets thicker and slower to pour. This is ONE reason we have to cut it with diesel in the Winter, or use a Winter formula bar oil (already cut with a petroleum-based thinning agent). For the guys who run regular-weight bar oil in the very depth of Winter, there is a big reason you 'cut' your oil with a thinner. Aside from the annoyance of having to wait for the slow, thick bar oil to flow from the jug and into the bar tank, you should consider the thickness of the oil already present in the oiler system. It flows with difficulty until the temperature comes up. Our impulse is to fire up a cold saw, gun it a few times and begin cutting. When gunning a cold saw, your clutch drum is driving a plastic pinion gear, which meshes with a plastic oil pump gear. If the petroleum bar oil is cold and really thick the stickiness of the tack combined with the thickness of the cold bar oil give resistance to the pump parts, rather than lubricity as what you would think. The clutch-driven pinion gear is going to move without any resistance whatsoever because there's a motor and a clutch drum driving it. The oiler pump gear, however, if it offers much in the way of resistance, one or the other or both of those gears can strip. Then you have no oil being pumped, no lubrication to the bar and your saw is down within a few minutes with hopefully no damage to the bar. I can't think of a worse time for a saw to go down.
Veggie (esp. Canola) with its consistent thinness down to very low temps, and no need to modify it, is what I consider to be a major advantage.
In an upcoming post I'll gladly share a few simple ways to adapt to the characteristics of veggie at temperatures below 10 degrees F (-12 C).
Here are some things to consider.
Vegetable (soybean) oil and corn oil will reach their 'freezing point' and turn into a gelacious slurry. This temp is somewhere around 18 to 24 degrees F (~ -8 to -4 C) for these two oils. Further temperature drop and the pourable slurry goes from pourable to 'squeezable' (see the picture below taken at 15 degrees F (-9.4 C)).
Canola, on the other hand, has a much lower freezing point, and a wider range between where the the oil goes from liquid oil to an easily pourable semi-liquid and then to a 'squeezable' white semi-solid. I've found this low-end 'cutoff' temperature of Canola, where you actually would choose to put it in the cab of your truck, or bring it in overnight, to be in the range of zero to around 5 below zero Fahrenheit (-18 to -20 C).
Be aware of this, though. Only a few degrees increase (like warming your saw up) and the veggie liquifies. One of the benefits I see is that veggie oil has a very consistent viscosity throughout the entire temperature range of where we'd use it, right down to the very low temperature point where the slurry goes from pourable to extrudable.
Regular bar oil, on the other hand, the viscosity changes greatly as the temperature drops. It gets thicker and slower to pour. This is ONE reason we have to cut it with diesel in the Winter, or use a Winter formula bar oil (already cut with a petroleum-based thinning agent). For the guys who run regular-weight bar oil in the very depth of Winter, there is a big reason you 'cut' your oil with a thinner. Aside from the annoyance of having to wait for the slow, thick bar oil to flow from the jug and into the bar tank, you should consider the thickness of the oil already present in the oiler system. It flows with difficulty until the temperature comes up. Our impulse is to fire up a cold saw, gun it a few times and begin cutting. When gunning a cold saw, your clutch drum is driving a plastic pinion gear, which meshes with a plastic oil pump gear. If the petroleum bar oil is cold and really thick the stickiness of the tack combined with the thickness of the cold bar oil give resistance to the pump parts, rather than lubricity as what you would think. The clutch-driven pinion gear is going to move without any resistance whatsoever because there's a motor and a clutch drum driving it. The oiler pump gear, however, if it offers much in the way of resistance, one or the other or both of those gears can strip. Then you have no oil being pumped, no lubrication to the bar and your saw is down within a few minutes with hopefully no damage to the bar. I can't think of a worse time for a saw to go down.
Veggie (esp. Canola) with its consistent thinness down to very low temps, and no need to modify it, is what I consider to be a major advantage.
In an upcoming post I'll gladly share a few simple ways to adapt to the characteristics of veggie at temperatures below 10 degrees F (-12 C).
okietreedude1
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I have to admit that I haven't yet switched to veggie oil, but I plan on it. I will pay more to be more environmentally friendly if I can afford it.
I look forward to the smell compared to regular oil! Once I can get back into the woods I will give it a go.
Thanks for the posts on the subject.
I look forward to the smell compared to regular oil! Once I can get back into the woods I will give it a go.
Thanks for the posts on the subject.
sawsong
ArboristSite Member
one of the older guys on our team when i mentioned this commented that 30 years ago or so at college they were always told to use veggie oil and always did because it was cheap and good for the environment... bar oil is just horrid stuff!
was this a widely held belief back then? if so, what went wrong between then and now?
was this a widely held belief back then? if so, what went wrong between then and now?
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
I just went to my local Stihl dealer and I spoke of the veggie oil concept to the sales guy. He says that the veggie oil will gum up the inside of the reservoir tank and clog up the flow tube. This does make since to me if the saw is not in use on a regular basis. What do you think?
I also questioned him about Stihls "biodegradable" bar oil (he had non on hand) and what he thought of it. He switched the subject on to the "winter" (blue bottle) grade. I don't know why he switched the subject on me. Perhaps he does not know much about this concept.
I forgot to get the bar oil pricing TM. Sorry! I'll get it next time I'm there.
---AK
I also questioned him about Stihls "biodegradable" bar oil (he had non on hand) and what he thought of it. He switched the subject on to the "winter" (blue bottle) grade. I don't know why he switched the subject on me. Perhaps he does not know much about this concept.
I forgot to get the bar oil pricing TM. Sorry! I'll get it next time I'm there.
---AK
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
TM-didn't you and i go over this earlier in this thread?
Treemachine is right, canola is the stuff to use in cold weather. We just finished a streak of twenty-some days in a row where the temps didn't even reach 10 F and many of those days saw temps well below zero. Ran canola in all my saws even throughout this cold spell with absolutely no problems. (Granted, nothing like the cold AKchopper will experience but i was happy with the results.) But like i said, the effects of the cold are discussed several pages back in this thread. Canola freezes at lower temps than veggie and even then usually just turn into a gell that liquifies very fast when even a small amount of warmth is applied to it. (Sorry to repeat you TM.)
Prices around here:
Husky brand bar oil-$9.25/gal
Walmart Poulan bar oil-$4.88/gal
Walmart canola-$6.64/gal
Walmart corn-$4.96/gal
Aldi's canola-$4.76/gal
Aldi's veggie-$4.24/gal
Been running Aldi's canola just because of the cold snap but once it warms up will switch to Aldi's veggie. But both are cheaper that Walmart's cheapest bar oil. (Granted, not alot cheaper but every penny counts.):biggrinbounce2:
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
Im fixing to officially make the switch.
I was in Wichita KS last week and got me a sams membership.
Bought 2 35# jugs of veggie. Paid $16.3? each.
If these jugs truly are 5gals, that would make it $3.30/gal.
Now its going to take a while to pay off the membership cost but maybe in time it will.
I was in Wichita KS last week and got me a sams membership.
Bought 2 35# jugs of veggie. Paid $16.3? each.
If these jugs truly are 5gals, that would make it $3.30/gal.
Now its going to take a while to pay off the membership cost but maybe in time it will.
Austin1
Addicted to ArboristSite
TM-didn't you and i go over this earlier in this thread?
Treemachine is right, canola is the stuff to use in cold weather. We just finished a streak of twenty-some days in a row where the temps didn't even reach 10 F and many of those days saw temps well below zero. Ran canola in all my saws even throughout this cold spell with absolutely no problems. (Granted, nothing like the cold AKchopper will experience but i was happy with the results.) But like i said, the effects of the cold are discussed several pages back in this thread. Canola freezes at lower temps than veggie and even then usually just turn into a gell that liquifies very fast when even a small amount of warmth is applied to it. (Sorry to repeat you TM.)
Prices around here:
Husky brand bar oil-$9.25/gal
Walmart Poulan bar oil-$4.88/gal
Walmart canola-$6.64/gal
Walmart corn-$4.96/gal
Aldi's canola-$4.76/gal
Aldi's veggie-$4.24/gal
Been running Aldi's canola just because of the cold snap but once it warms up will switch to Aldi's veggie. But both are cheaper that Walmart's cheapest bar oil. (Granted, not alot cheaper but every penny counts.):biggrinbounce2:
I don't use my saw's as much as you guy's But I made the switch to canola this year for all my firewood cutting about 5 full cords. No problems at all with it and it is way cheaper! I paid 14.00$ Canadian for 16 liters 3.78l to a U.S gal. It flows better at low temps than any bar oil I have used. I did'nt notice any more ware on the bar and chain plus it cleans out of you cloths better! By the way Walmart wants 8.99 for there bar oil here for a gallon.
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