what can ORANGE do for you?

[chowdozer]

Let's find some big wood, and compare your 880 to my woods port 3120......the difference will be pretty large! But your 880 has the stock muffler, right? As I've said before, my 3120 was underwhelming when stock---

Stock saw versus modified saw???
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

 

[chowdozer]

Will be interesting now when Stihls will start having "Made in China" on the cover, how that will be recieved by the market.

Are you telling us that Stihl is closing up shop in Virginia? I think you're full of BS.

For me, high sales have always been in contradiction with performance, in every business.

No doubt that Husky would very much like high sales. Must be a reason they haven't got there. If you build a better product, more people will buy it. Honda/Toyota are perfect examples.

The MS290 is the ultimate proof that this is true also for chainsaws.

LOL, and the best selling Husky saws are rebadged POULANS!!!

Personally I don't want an ordinary/reliable/proven/cheap/normal .. chainsaw. I want the best chainsaw.

When you're out in the woods miles away from the nearest saw dealer, wouldn't reliable/proven be the best? But you don't want that? You contradict yourself.

Personally I don't want an ordinary/reliable/proven/cheap/normal .. chainsaw. I want the best chainsaw.

I prefer Husky for the uncompromising "Pro feeling".

You are confused. You want the "best" saw but you buy based on "feeling". It's ironic that more pro's use Stihl than Husky... isn't it?

:monkey:

I've never understood why the Husky fans always start ragging on the Stihls. It's like you're fighting for approval or justifing your saw purchase. I don't care what saw you run. Go cut wood.
:monkey:

 

[Tzed250]

Well said!

 

[peter399]

Are you telling us that Stihl is closing up shop in Virginia? I think you're full of BS.

You're no better that Thall. Did I say they were closing the shop in Virginia? That's a big NO! I said: Stihl will open a production plant in China.

No doubt that Husky would very much like high sales. Must be a reason they haven't got there. If you build a better product, more people will buy it. Honda/Toyota are perfect examples..

Exactly what I meant. You have to make good cars in order to sell. But do you have to make the best cars? No. Ferrari, Porsche or something are the best cars but their sales are probalbly negligible compared to Toyota. Maybe they don't want to be the No1 best selling company either. Thought of that? Unbelievable how you Stihl fanatics equals sales with performance/quality whatever.[/QUOTE]

When you're out in the woods miles away from the nearest saw dealer, wouldn't reliable/proven be the best? But you don't want that? You contradict yourself.

If you have a good product you don't need a dealer. The only times I have used a dealer for repairing it has been due to the poor quality of the 026. Never with Husky. Maybe that's why they have less dealers?
The fact that I also cut more wood with the Orange saws doesn't make things worse [/QUOTE]

You are confused. You want the "best" saw but you buy based on "feeling". It's ironic that more pro's use Stihl than Husky... isn't it?

I can specify the feeling to: anti vibe, air filtration, acceleration, saw body design and willingness to idle....

I've never understood why the Husky fans always start ragging on the Stihls.

I have the feeling it's the other way around. Some people here are way to brand loyal. I wouldn't have anything against recommending a MS200, 361, or 660 to anybody. But when people ask for purchase advice on a 50cc and the Stihl fanatics recommends a higher priced almost 20 years old Stihl over a 346 or 5100 then that upsets me. Honstly you know that they are much better saws in this cc range, still you talk them down to a 260. When the 261 will come one day, then fine. Or do you think that 20 years of R&D hasn't resulted in a better saw?

/Peter

 

[2000ssm6]

I have the feeling it's the other way around. Some people here are way to brand loyal. I wouldn't have anything against recommending a MS200, 361, or 660 to anybody. But when people ask for purchase advice on a 50cc and the Stihl fanatics recommends a higher priced almost 20 years old Stihl over a 346 or 5100 then that upsets me. Honstly you know that they are much better saws in this cc range, still you talk them down to a 260. When the 261 will come one day, then fine. Or do you think that 20 years of R&D hasn't resulted in a better saw?

/Peter

I'm not brand loyal, look at my sig I'm also confused, 20 years from the 026/260 and they are stihl on top, must be a crappy saw........

 

[chowdozer]

You're no better that Thall. Did I say they were closing the shop in Virginia? That's a big NO! I said: Stihl will open a production plant in China.

Do you think that if Stihl builds a plant in China, they will sell those saws in China??? And if they have a plant in the US, they will sell those saws in the US? You're not the fastest sled in the shed are you?

Exactly what I meant. You have to make good cars in order to sell. But do you have to make the best cars? No. Ferrari, Porsche or something are the best cars but their sales are probalbly negligible compared to Toyota. Maybe they don't want to be the No1 best selling company either. Thought of that? Unbelievable how you Stihl fanatics equals sales with performance/quality whatever.

Now you think that Porches and Ferrari's are the best cars. Best for what? Certainly not for reliability. That's why it takes a busload of mechanics for them to run a race. Reminds me of the Paris Dakar motorcycle race several years ago. KTM ran it and took the top 4 or 6 spots. They had mechanics rebuild the bikes every night. 3 or 4 of them working on each bike. They took care of all problems. Funny thing was, right behind all those KTM's was a Honda. Solo. By himself. NO support. And he still found time to sleep every night. That's technology versus time proven reliability.

If you have a good product you don't need a dealer.

won't sell any either. Somehow, someway, the customer has to be able to buy the saw.

The only times I have used a dealer for repairing it has been due to the poor quality of the 026. Never with Husky. Maybe that's why they have less dealers?
The fact that I also cut more wood with the Orange saws doesn't make things worse

Yeah baby, go! Around me I have no less than 3 Stihl dealers in 5 miles. No Husky dealers that I know of. You have to have dealers to sell saws, chain, oil, files. Maybe you do all your shopping online. I don't. You really clarify your need for a dealer with the problems you're having with your 026.

I can specify the feeling to: anti vibe, air filtration, acceleration, saw body design and willingness to idle....

Antivibe. It's a one cylinder saw, it's going to vibrate. Are you one of those guys that wants your 4x4 pickup to ride like a Cadillac? Get those antivibe mounts too cushy and they move around alot. Personally, I think too many people make a big deal of antivibe and some like myself prefer a little feedback vibe from the saw.
Air filtration. Alot of hype there. I can cut all day with a saw and not have a problem but I make chips not dust.
Acceleration. Yeah, you got me on that one. My old 056 doesn't have much acceleration but you can put a 24" bar on it and lean on it all you want and not bog it in the cut. I prefer that to acceleration when I wing the throttle.
Saw body design. Yawn. It's a tool not art.
Willingness to idle. Maybe you do need a dealer because it appears you're not the mechanic you think you are. I haven't heard of anyone else having this complaint.

I have the feeling it's the other way around. Some people here are way to brand loyal.

Comes back to dealers, doesn't it? You have get the saw in a prospective customers hands somehow. You have to get them to want the saw. From all reports I hear, the Dolmar 5100 and 7900 are fantastic saws. But they still haven't sold many because there aren't many dealers to demo them. See, it's not that I'm brand loyal, it's that I'm dealer loyal. When I went to my local shop, I was intent on buying a Honda 4 stroke string trimmer. He had a row of them. I asked him which one he would buy. His response was, "I'd buy the Stihl. When you have a municipality come in and buy 75 of them, that speaks as to which is best. I'll go with what my customer buys."

I wouldn't have anything against recommending a MS200, 361, or 660 to anybody. But when people ask for purchase advice on a 50cc and the Stihl fanatics recommends a higher priced almost 20 years old Stihl over a 346 or 5100 then that upsets me. Honstly you know that they are much better saws in this cc range, still you talk them down to a 260. When the 261 will come one day, then fine.

In this particuliar thread, I didn't see anyone recommending any saws. I just see you getting an oppurtunity to do a little Stihl bashing. I don't know if I've ever seen any Stihl fans Husky bashing when advice is asked for. Sorry buddy but the bashing really shuts me down. If my local dealer was Husky, I'd probably be a Husky fan. Furthermore, I don't know how you could recommend a 200, 361 or 660 as you apparently don't own any of them.

Or do you think that 20 years of R&D hasn't resulted in a better saw?

I assume you're talking about the 575 that isn't selling well?

 

[peter399]

Do you think that if Stihl builds a plant in China, they will sell those saws in China??? And if they have a plant in the US, they will sell those saws in the US? You're not the fastest sled in the shed are you?

Question 1: Yes. Among all other countries.
Question 2: Yes, until the volume ramp-up in the Chinese plant is finished.
For your info: One hour of labour is aroung 2 dollars and 50 cents in China. How much is it in the US? Do you think Stihl is stupid? Do you think they will say no to more money? Noone will say know to more money. This is 2007, not 1969.

Somehow, someway, the customer has to be able to buy the saw.

Correct. But why from a dealer that puts his profit on the price? I think 99% of the loggers know better which chainsaw they want than any dealer does, don't you think?

Yeah baby, go! Around me I have no less than 3 Stihl dealers in 5 miles. No Husky dealers that I know of. You have to have dealers to sell saws, chain, oil, files. Maybe you do all your shopping online. I don't. You really clarify your need for a dealer with the problems you're having with your 026.

3 dealers every 5 miles. Sounds very expensive for Stihl ...

Antivibe. It's a one cylinder saw, it's going to vibrate. Are you one of those guys that wants your 4x4 pickup to ride like a Cadillac? Get those antivibe mounts too cushy and they move around alot. Personally, I think too many people make a big deal of antivibe and some like myself prefer a little feedback vibe from the saw. Air filtration. Alot of hype there. I can cut all day with a saw and not have a problem but I make chips not dust.
Acceleration. Yeah, you got me on that one. My old 056 doesn't have much acceleration but you can put a 24" bar on it and lean on it all you want and not bog it in the cut. I prefer that to acceleration when I wing the throttle.
Saw body design. Yawn. It's a tool not art.
Willingness to idle. Maybe you do need a dealer because it appears you're not the mechanic you think you are. I haven't heard of anyone else having this complaint.

Well, I don't want it to vibrate. For daily 8 hours use I sure wouldn't want it to vibrate.

Air filtration: Try a Husky or J-red.

Acceleration: Seems like you cut a lot of firewood leaning on that 24 bar of yours. I cut mainly spruce and around here, spruce have roughly 5 limbs every feet. For a 50 feet spruce, that makes around 250 limbs. You can do that with your 056 and 24" but it won't be very quick. At least I prefer fast reving saws with high rpm.

Saw body: A thinner saw body will make you limb faster. Same with higher centre of mass. I really like the design of the 441, a giant step forward for the Stihl. The others though, I think they have a way to fat a*s. The saw should rest on the trunk and be easy to turn around the trunk.

Comes back to dealers, doesn't it? You have get the saw in a prospective customers hands somehow. You have to get them to want the saw. From all reports I hear, the Dolmar 5100 and 7900 are fantastic saws. But they still haven't sold many because there aren't many dealers to demo them. See, it's not that I'm brand loyal, it's that I'm dealer loyal. When I went to my local shop, I was intent on buying a Honda 4 stroke string trimmer. He had a row of them. I asked him which one he would buy. His response was, "I'd buy the Stihl. When you have a municipality come in and buy 75 of them, that speaks as to which is best. I'll go with what my customer buys."

'll go with what my customers buy". Shouldn't he know what the customers should buy and not the other way around? I agree with you, it's important to have some place to look and feel at the saws. I think Husky was a little to quick relying on internet. I think it will be more and more online though. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I think it's bad. But it also has to do with the time we live in. If you have to take your car and go to a dealer and buy, not to mention to have your saw repaired, it will cost you time and hence money.
At least around here a Pro changes saw every year, if it's necessary or not, doesn't matter. One day of lost work costs what a saw costs. We live in a buy, use, throw away. buy use, .... world.

In this particuliar thread, I didn't see anyone recommending any saws. I just see you getting an oppurtunity to do a little Stihl bashing. I don't know if I've ever seen any Stihl fans Husky bashing when advice is asked for. Sorry buddy but the bashing really shuts me down. If my local dealer was Husky, I'd probably be a Husky fan. Furthermore, I don't know how you could recommend a 200, 361 or 660 as you apparently don't own any of them.

I'm not bashing Stihl. As I said, they have many many nice saws. Husky/J-red too, as well as less good ones. I just pointed out that against one's better judgement people tend to recommend saws of their own brand instead of the best saw/best bang for the buck or whatever. I'm a Husky/J-red fan but I would prefer the newer and lighter MS361 over the older and heavier Husky 362, just like I would prefer the 346 over the older MS260.
I would probably go with the 441 instead of the 575 also if I couldn't get old of a 2171/372.

 

[THALL10326]

Peter

Hey ole Peter are ya ready to take on the big dog,hehe

 

[Just Mow]

Hey ole Peter are ya ready to take on the big dog,hehe

I think ChowDozer is doing a pretty good job putting the dumb sh1t in his place. He11 even Manual fights harder than Peter does.

 

[2000ssm6]

you oranges are done now:taped:

 

[THALL10326]

I think ChowDozer is doing a pretty good job putting the dumb sh1t in his place. He11 even Manual fights harder than Peter does.

Ya mean I don't get to snip at his ole behind, well durn...

 

[chowdozer]

Question 1: Yes. Among all other countries.
Question 2: Yes, until the volume ramp-up in the Chinese plant is finished.
For your info: One hour of labour is aroung 2 dollars and 50 cents in China. How much is it in the US? Do you think Stihl is stupid? Do you think they will say no to more money? Noone will say know to more money. This is 2007, not 1969.

Yes, labor is cheap in China. It was that way in Mexico not that long ago also. Now I think it's a toss up for the automakers and I seem to recall some are moving back. Stihls are made in Brazil too but the Viginia plant is Stihl going strong.

Correct. But why from a dealer that puts his profit on the price? I think 99% of the loggers know better which chainsaw they want than any dealer does, don't you think?

I'd say 99% of the loggers here buy Stihl. Which is why there are so few Husky, Dolmar and Jonsered dealers.

3 dealers every 5 miles. Sounds very expensive for Stihl ...

One is a rental store, saws doesn't keep them in business. Two are lawn and garden places. One L&G sells the John Deere tractor line, Honda mowers, generators, pressure washers and rototillers with service for all. Here a saw dealer is not just a saw dealer. So the answer is no, I don't see it as expensive for Stihl at all and it gives a good local base for saws and parts. Seems like there's enough dealers to keep three Stihl dealers in business but not enought to keep one Husky dealer in business. Unless you want to count Lowes. If you wanted to take a trip 20 miles into the foothills of the Cascades, you'd find... MORE Stihl dealers!

Air filtration: Try a Husky or J-red.

Righttttt. The problem would be finding a dealer. Why would I switch dealers? Is it important to me if I can cut 8 hours or 16 hours before I clean the filter? No. I clean the saw after every use.

Acceleration: Seems like you cut a lot of firewood leaning on that 24 bar of yours. I cut mainly spruce and around here, spruce have roughly 5 limbs every feet. For a 50 feet spruce, that makes around 250 limbs. You can do that with your 056 and 24" but it won't be very quick. At least I prefer fast reving saws with high rpm.

I have 7 saws. I think I have all bases covered unless you tell me I don't.

Saw body: A thinner saw body will make you limb faster. Same with higher centre of mass. I really like the design of the 441, a giant step forward for the Stihl. The others though, I think they have a way to fat a*s. The saw should rest on the trunk and be easy to turn around the trunk.

Yes, I have a 441 and often times I limb with it simply because it's faster than going to get another saw out of the truck. When I bought the 441, I bought it because I ran it. After running the 441, the 440 and 460 were not even a consideration. Try that on the internet.

I'll go with what my customers buy". Shouldn't he know what the customers should buy and not the other way around?

That depends doesn't it? If you go to buy another Husky to replace what you have, what are you going to buy? Same saw? If you're a good customer, chances are the dealer will cut you a deal. OTOH, if you've narrowed your choices down and want to talk to a salesman to get some feedback on what commercial customers are buying what comes in for repair, then you talk to the salesman. Maybe you even want to run a saw or two. Sometimes you can get alot more information out of a salesman you trust than a web page quoting specs.

I agree with you, it's important to have some place to look and feel at the saws. I think Husky was a little to quick relying on internet. I think it will be more and more online though. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I think it's bad. But it also has to do with the time we live in. If you have to take your car and go to a dealer and buy, not to mention to have your saw repaired, it will cost you time and hence money.
At least around here a Pro changes saw every year, if it's necessary or not, doesn't matter. One day of lost work costs what a saw costs. We live in a buy, use, throw away. buy use, .... world.

When the pro's I know change saws, they keep the old one for backup. If you're a pro and you rely on your saw to make money, a backup saw and a supportive dealer are very important. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any pro's that rely on one saw.

I'm not bashing Stihl. As I said, they have many many nice saws. Husky/J-red too, as well as less good ones. I just pointed out that against one's better judgement people tend to recommend saws of their own brand instead of the best saw/best bang for the buck or whatever. I'm a Husky/J-red fan but I would prefer the newer and lighter MS361 over the older and heavier Husky 362, just like I would prefer the 346 over the older MS260.
I would probably go with the 441 instead of the 575 also if I couldn't get old of a 2171/372.

One of the values of a saw is dealer support. Some brands are supported better in some areas than others. Once upon a time I had a Poulan Pro 330 (I liked it, good power, good controls) that I got so cheap I had to buy it. I blew out the clutch bearing. It took 6 weeks to get a new one. If I had blown up a clutch on any of my Stihl's, I could have had a new one that day. As you say, time is money. I'm willing to pay more for a saw if I know the dealer stocks parts. If the saw is not the highest horsepower newest and lightest saw available, I don't really care. I'm paying for help when I need help. An insurance policy. If you rely on your saw for a paycheck, buying a saw that is not supported by your local dealer is suicide no matter how good the saw is. You're gambling the saw will not need service before you retire it. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and as you say, when you lose it's going to cost you.

It would be nice to be able to pick and chose the saw you like from each manufacturer. I suspect that there are relatively few places that is possible. I'm not going to buy a saw that my local dealer doesn't support. Or a generator, lawn mower, pressure washer, whatever.

edit: Almost forgot, go cut wood!

 

[Lakeside53]

Hey Pete... Ignoring all the other stuff... China...

I don't really care if Stihl does import from China. IF they do, it will be indistinguishable from the Germany, USA and Brazil manufacture... apart from the serial number... Like I've said before, it isn't the county.. it's the Company... Many USA/European companies do this... Check the "Made in" stickers on anything electronic..

So.... IF Stihl does this.. what do you think Husky (w.r.t. China...) will do? I predict they will have a China plant.. unless they want to ignore a huge section of the planet and let Stihl be number 1 there also..

BTW.. often components get made in low cost countries, then the units are assembled elsewhere. Stihl says quite clearly on the side of their USA saws - MADE IN USA - but the carbs often say "China". If Husky has used any Zama carbs lately... same thing.

 

[ropensaddle]

Are you telling us that Stihl is closing up shop in Virginia? I think you're full of BS.


No doubt that Husky would very much like high sales. Must be a reason they haven't got there. If you build a better product, more people will buy it. Honda/Toyota are perfect examples.

LOL, and the best selling Husky saws are rebadged POULANS!!!



When you're out in the woods miles away from the nearest saw dealer, wouldn't reliable/proven be the best? But you don't want that? You contradict yourself.





You are confused. You want the "best" saw but you buy based on "feeling". It's ironic that more pro's use Stihl than Husky... isn't it?

:monkey:

I've never understood why the Husky fans always start ragging on the Stihls. It's like you're fighting for approval or justifing your saw purchase. I don't care what saw you run. Go cut wood.
:monkey:

Well that goes two ways partner.I like them both also but I see both users putting down each other so it
is not just an orange thing. It is all in fun with most of them
breaks up the monotony so I will end with stihl working on it
not with it

 

[Lakeside53]

3 dealers every 5 miles. Sounds very expensive for Stihl ...

I believe you misunderstand Stihl's relationship with their dealers.. Dealers are independent businesses - no cost to Stihl... trust me.. Stihl doesn't pay for anything!

There has to be enough business for all to stay profitable, but obviously they are.

 

[RiverRat2]

You're no better that Thall. Did I say they were closing the shop in Virginia? That's a big NO! I said: Stihl will open a production plant in China.
Honstly you know that they are much better saws in this cc range, still you talk them down to a 260. When the 261 will come one day, then fine. Or do you think that 20 years of R&D hasn't resulted in a better saw?

/Peter

Well Peter you're no better than bwalker's ability to describe a pro sawyer,,,,,,, yer stuck on raggin about your twenty year old saw that has a cutting attachment problem that you have failed to properly diagnose and repair,,, so now all of them are P... O.... S....


Give it a rest!!!!!! :monkey: :monkey: :monkey:

Put that in your pipe and smoke it,,,,,, LOL,,,,,,,,,,

 

[adkranger]

opcorn:

 

[Lakeside53]

20 years and that's all they could do??? opcorn:

 

[2000ssm6]

20 years and that's all they could do??? opcorn:

Weird isn't it? They are Stihl #1

 

[Just Mow]

As my buddy Tom would say.......
Number One Worldwide
You Husky Babies