What Kind of Pine/Evergreen Do You Burn?

[svk]

Can you call someone that sucks at cutting trees an arborist? Maybe tree hack would be a better term much like curing vs seasoning (I'm seeing a lot of people near me refer to seasoned wood as something that has been split for a season). There's tree guys near me that sell firewood at a premium price. What a business, charge someone to cut and haul away wood then resell that same stuff to someone else.

LOL...Guys here can give you lots of answers on that. I do find it funny that the tree services I've dealt with NEVER cut rounds uniformly, one is 12" and the next is 20".

What's the best tree ID book you've read? I've heard black locust is premium firewood, I'll have to try it someday. I would also like a crack at splitting western hemlock, heard it's a PITA.

There's not much in my woods that I can't ID but this is a great resource. At about the middle of MN the species change dramatically as you travel north or south so I sometimes try to figure out what I saw when I am traveling.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/education/treeforallseasons/nativetrees.html

 

[slowp]

I don't think we have any "arborists" here. The only "arborist" I see is the Asplundh group and they just work on powerline clearing. I have a difficult tree that I'm thinking about getting on the ground, and I'll consult some local, highly skilled timber fallers to see if it can come down without climbing. My insurance agent might be interested in cutting it. I'll talk to him first.

 

[Ambull01]

LOL...Guys here can give you lots of answers on that. I do find it funny that the tree services I've dealt with NEVER cut rounds uniformly, one is 12" and the next is 20".


There's not much in my woods that I can't ID but this is a great resource. At about the middle of MN the species change dramatically as you travel north or south so I sometimes try to figure out what I saw when I am traveling.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/forestry/education/treeforallseasons/nativetrees.html

Good ID site. MD has something similar. The issue I have is a lot of tree bark look the same to me. Plus, some trees will have different bark depending upon its age. A lot of the stuff I see tell you to look at the leaves but that's kind of hard to do in the winter.

 

[dhskier2]

Umm, are you calling me a liar? lol

Not a liar... just not understanding the differences- summed up here:

Needles have always equaled pine trees

I think you have some fir trees, known as piss firs, confused with spruce. An easy way to ID spruce is to grab a branch. If you say OUCH, it is a spruce.

Slowp nailed what I was getting at... you figured spruce looks like pine, but a more likely confusion would have been a fir. Some spruce and some fir could be confused. Not to worry, get me out in hardwood country and I'm in about the same boat. Definitely don't take me to Hawaii and ask me to ID any native trees.

What's the best tree ID book you've read?

If you've got a smart phone, download one of the tree ID apps. There's a couple that do a pretty good job.

 

[Ambull01]

Not a liar... just not understanding the differences- summed up here:



Slowp nailed what I was getting at... you figured spruce looks like pine, but a more likely confusion would have been a fir. Some spruce and some fir could be confused. Not to worry, get me out in hardwood country and I'm in about the same boat. Definitely don't take me to Hawaii and ask me to ID any native trees.


If you've got a smart phone, download one of the tree ID apps. There's a couple that do a pretty good job.

I downloaded the VT ID app but it asks about 20 questions, a lot of them are about the leaves. Kind of hard to pick the correct leaf when the tree is totally bald.

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/trees.html

I'm in luck, no spruce or fir trees in MD. So, "anything with a cone is a pine" will work for me lol.

 

[slowp]

I downloaded the VT ID app but it asks about 20 questions, a lot of them are about the leaves. Kind of hard to pick the correct leaf when the tree is totally bald.

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/trees.html

I'm in luck, no spruce or fir trees in MD. So, "anything with a cone is a pine" will work for me lol.

Look underneath the trees you want to ID if the leaves are gone. Unless you've raked them up, they'll help ID the tree. Plus, with conifers, look on the ground by the tree for cones if they are species where the cones hold together after ripening. Some of our true firs have cones that erupt and spread their seeds while still on the tree. The only way to see those cones intact is to climb, look with binoculars, find them on a fallen tree, or run into a squirrel food harvest in progress.

 

[Ambull01]

Look underneath the trees you want to ID if the leaves are gone. Unless you've raked them up, they'll help ID the tree. Plus, with conifers, look on the ground by the tree for cones if they are species where the cones hold together after ripening. Some of our true firs have cones that erupt and spread their seeds while still on the tree. The only way to see those cones intact is to climb, look with binoculars, find them on a fallen tree, or run into a squirrel food harvest in progress.

Rake leaves? Hell no! I stopped raking leaves after realizing it is such a futile effort. I just run them over with my lawnmower now lol. Much easier.

Anyway, ya'll are making me extremely curious about trees in the west. I'll have to make a trip there someday and see for myself.

 

[lindnova]

I had a black spruce for a Christmas tree we cut down on the property. It smelled nice like an evergreen does. I will have to sniff some white spruce as I have never noticed the cat pee smell.

 

[windthrown]

That sucks. I've heard of some lucky guys that have tree cutters drop off stuff right in their yard/driveway.

Yah, most of that is back east after hurricane Sandy and places in the Midwest that are pumping NG like crazy. I have gotten some wood dropped, but that has always been with loads of wood chips. Wood chips cost money to dump here (rip off recycling; they get money to take the chips and then sell the compost after processing it). So arborists are always advertising for places to drop loads of chips on CL for free.

Can you call someone that sucks at cutting trees an arborist? Maybe tree hack would be a better term much like curing vs seasoning (I'm seeing a lot of people near me refer to seasoned wood as something that has been split for a season). There's tree guys near me that sell firewood at a premium price. What a business, charge someone to cut and haul away wood then resell that same stuff to someone else. .

I call them 'tree butchers' myself. On this forum site there used to be a lot of us pro arborists with chippers and such, and pro fallers. Now its guys with hopped up chainsaws boasting about wood cutting speeds cutting logs lashed to saw horses. As for firewood, no arbor business here that I know of sells firewood. Takes too much time and space. I do know a few that keep the wood to burn themselves, but most post ads on CL for free rounds to be taken on site. Then the wood zombies like me show up and it disappears in a few hours, especially better wood like oak. There are bigger firewood processors out here where I live where a lot of logging is done, and they buy and salvage cull logs that they haul and cut into firewood. Some sell it green to the suckers in the city. Some logging companies here sell cull logs direct to the public. A dumptruck load of green Doug fir & hemlock logs costs $300 delivered. They come to about 2.5 cords of wood bucked, split and stacked. You can also buy a logging truck load of logs for $1200, and that comes out to about 9 cords (roughly 3 cords per MBF, and roughly 3 MBF per logging truck: 1 MBF is a thousand board feet of lumber).

What's the best tree ID book you've read? I've heard black locust is premium firewood, I'll have to try it someday. I would also like a crack at splitting western hemlock, heard it's a PITA.

Yep my Christmas tree collecting for firewood is a big fail.

Failing is the path to knowledge and wisdom. I used to go after cottonwood here. No longer. I have a cord of Western Hemlock rounds here and a maul if you wanna give them a whack. I do not think there is any best tree ID book. I like Petersons field guide to western trees. There must be an eastern equivalent? Golden also has Trees of North America that has good drawings and maps of where stands occur. I also have several shrub and tree ID books that are local to the PNW that you would likely never find. No one book has all the trees that I have found and ID'd, especially old world species. For them I use Google.

 

[windthrown]

Rake leaves? Hell no! I stopped raking leaves after realizing it is such a futile effort. I just run them over with my lawnmower now lol. Much easier.

Anyway, ya'll are making me extremely curious about trees in the west. I'll have to make a trip there someday and see for myself.

We have some phenomenally large trees out here in the west. The tallest and largest in the world. Also large swaths... here is a photo I took northwest of Mt Hood in the Cascades just north of where I live. Hood is 11k+ feet tall for perspective. I live just off photo to the lower right. The majority of green here are Douglas firs. Farther up the slopes are silver and grand firs, as well as western and mountain hemlocks, and western cedars. In the draws are big leaf maples, cascaras, black cottonwoods, red alders, some white oaks, and there are scattered white birch stands. On the east slopes are more Ponderosa pines, larch, and junipers mixed in. There are other species that I am forgetting as well.

 

[Ambull01]

Yah, most of that is back east after hurricane Sandy and places in the Midwest that are pumping NG like crazy. I have gotten some wood dropped, but that has always been with loads of wood chips. Wood chips cost money to dump here (rip off recycling; they get money to take the chips and then sell the compost after processing it). So arborists are always advertising for places to drop loads of chips on CL for free.

I call them 'tree butchers' myself. On this forum site there used to be a lot of us pro arborists with chippers and such, and pro fallers. Now its guys with hopped up chainsaws boasting about wood cutting speeds cutting logs lashed to saw horses. As for firewood, no arbor business here that I know of sells firewood. Takes too much time and space. I do know a few that keep the wood to burn themselves, but most post ads on CL for free rounds to be taken on site. Then the wood zombies like me show up and it disappears in a few hours, especially better wood like oak. There are bigger firewood processors out here where I live where a lot of logging is done, and they buy and salvage cull logs that they haul and cut into firewood. Some sell it green to the suckers in the city. Some logging companies here sell cull logs direct to the public. A dumptruck load of green Doug fir & hemlock logs costs $300 delivered. They come to about 2.5 cords of wood bucked, split and stacked. You can also buy a logging truck load of logs for $1200, and that comes out to about 9 cords (roughly 3 cords per MBF, and roughly 3 MBF per logging truck: 1 MBF is a thousand board feet of lumber).

Failing is the path to knowledge and wisdom. I used to go after cottonwood here. No longer. I have a cord of Western Hemlock rounds here and a maul if you wanna give them a whack. I do not think there is any best tree ID book. I like Petersons field guide to western trees. There must be an eastern equivalent? Golden also has Trees of North America that has good drawings and maps of where stands occur. I also have several shrub and tree ID books that are local to the PNW that you would likely never find. No one book has all the trees that I have found and ID'd, especially old world species. For them I use Google.

I've seen some CL adds for free wood chips. I would take them but have no idea what the hell I would do with wood chips.

So what happened with all the pros? Actually it might be a good thing they're gone, I doubt they would have enough patience to put up with someone like me. As for the ported chainsaws, I admit it is a bit dumb. Not going to lie though, if it was cheaper I would probably do it. Just can't see the point in spending a few hundred to speed/power up something that I only use to cut firewood with. It's kind of funny going on You Tube and seeing people test out a modified saw and act triumphant because they shaved off a few seconds from a cut lmao. Thankfully I'm not that crazy just yet.

Hell just about every arborist/tree service I've seen has a yard that's full of split and stacked firewood ready for sale.

If I could get 2.5 cords for $300 I may just buy the logs. Should have listened to my friend and gone with him to Washington. He went to JB Lewis-McChord. I could be enjoying some cheap ass firewood right now and working the snot out of my Makita. I think she's getting bored here.

Oh man I would love to. Just found out MD has eastern hemlock so I wonder how they compare. I think the western hemlock is larger.
I'll look those books up.

Check this app out: http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2012/12/122012-cnre-treeidapp.html
This is the app I downloaded to my phone. Seems great but the questions are extremely detailed. Like how many branch spur thingies does the tree have? Complex or simple leaves? Fruits? How the hell am I supposed to answer that. If I knew all that crap I wouldn't need a tree ID resource.

We have some phenomenally large trees out here in the west. The tallest and largest in the world. Also large swaths... here is a photo I took northwest of Mt Hood in the Cascades just north of where I live. Hood is 11k+ feet tall for perspective. I live just off photo to the lower right. The majority of green here are Douglas firs. Farther up the slopes are silver and grand firs, as well as western and mountain hemlocks, and western cedars. In the draws are big leaf maples, cascaras, black cottonwoods, red alders, some white oaks, and there are scattered white birch stands. On the east slopes are more Ponderosa pines, larch, and junipers mixed in. There are other species that I am forgetting as well.

View attachment 394548

I've been wondering, why are the trees over there so large? I know the wettest place in the world is in Kauai (I hiked that island once, freaking awesome) so it can't just be the amount of rainfall you receive.

Oh damn I'm jealous. I would love to see that view everyday. I'm living on the wrong coast.

 

[slowp]

NOOOOOOO! Believe me, you don't want to live here. Ft Lewis area has massive traffic jams. I think that's why our population is always growing, too many military folks like it for some reason. Apparently, they can't smell the mildew. That part of the state is pretty much solid suburbs and city. And, anytime there is a slump in logging or the mills--in our more rural areas, selling firewood becomes common and it can be hard to come by if you don't know somebody. Competition is fierce, because of all the restrictions, on our National Forest lands.

You wouldn't have that view everyday. It is too rainy and cloudy to see it everyday. In the summer, it's often obscured by smoke. Nope, don't move here.

 

[Ambull01]

NOOOOOOO! Believe me, you don't want to live here. Ft Lewis area has massive traffic jams. I think that's why our population is always growing, too many military folks like it for some reason. Apparently, they can't smell the mildew. That part of the state is pretty much solid suburbs and city. And, anytime there is a slump in logging or the mills--in our more rural areas, selling firewood becomes common and it can be hard to come by if you don't know somebody. Competition is fierce, because of all the restrictions, on our National Forest lands.

You wouldn't have that view everyday. It is too rainy and cloudy to see it everyday. In the summer, it's often obscured by smoke. Nope, don't move here.

Hmm, I think you're just saying that to keep Washington state to yourself. Don't worry, I'm not a real military dude. My active duty time is over, I'm not doing that crap again. I'm just a nasty little Guardsman now.

Well, having that view sporadically may make it even better. Sometimes you don't know what you have until you lose it. Smoke from what?

 

[slowp]

Smoke from the annual fire bust. July, August, September. The good thing is that because it is during the summer, we can load up and take off somewhere to get away from the smoke if it is too horrible. Let me see, Wenatchee in 2013, had doctors sending their families out of the valley until the smoke cleared.

 

[dhskier2]

Wenatchee in 2013, had doctors sending their families out of the valley until the smoke cleared.

We probably should have taken a few days leave from Wenatchee in 1994. That was a pretty bad year. Over 180k acres burned up as I remember it

 

[nathon918]

We probably should have taken a few days leave from Wenatchee in 1994. That was a pretty bad year. Over 180k acres burned up as I remember it

wonder why the EPA hasn't put an end to those fires yet???? I mean if doctors are sending people away from all the smoke it cant be good for the environment...the EPA needs to get their **** together and ban wild fires!

 

[slowp]

wonder why the EPA hasn't put an end to those fires yet???? I mean if doctors are sending people away from all the smoke it cant be good for the environment...the EPA needs to get their **** together and ban wild fires!

Nice rhetoric.

 

[slowp]

We probably should have taken a few days leave from Wenatchee in 1994. That was a pretty bad year. Over 180k acres burned up as I remember it

Don't worry, it might take a while to kick in. I quit going to fires because of coming home half the time with a roaring case of bronchitis. A friend had the same thing happen, but later. The overtime, and I guess it is less now, isn't worth three weeks of horking and wheezing.

 

[nathon918]

Nice rhetoric.

Thank you!
I would hope someone of your ...stature would be pushing for it, no? or at least convincing those polluters not to come to Washington?

 

[dhskier2]

Don't worry, it might take a while to kick in. I quit going to fires because of coming home half the time with a roaring case of bronchitis. A friend had the same thing happen, but later. The overtime, and I guess it is less now, isn't worth three weeks of horking and wheezing.

I was a resident of the fine town at that time, not a fire fighter. Granted, wasn't out of high school yet... so any long term health affects and I'll have to blame my parents for not sending me back to MT to the crisp clean air.... wait a minute... I'm in the bitterroot valley now. We get some of the same problems here.
Don't get me going on the Missoula county airshed program... they make my life miserable each fall when it comes time to burn slash piles from my summer jobsites