What The Heck?

Rugged made
Wesspur
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I see value in reforming by instilling work ethic. I think there's many things they can make them do that would be fitting without competing with local business. I think growing their own food could be regular chores, then litter detail,then scrubbing latrines in rest areas and strait hoeing weeds in sidewalk on government property followed by thorough cleaning of the prison itself then 30 mins to watch tv which is only the Disney channel or news before lights out and 6 am do it again.
 
redprospector said:
I figure that attorney's should always be the last resort (unlike most people now days). I'm a strong advocate of being a man, and talking to the offender face to face before spending a lot of money on a lawyer.

Andy
Click to expand...

One consults an attorney to gain a better understanding of legal ramifications to better assess how to approach the problem. "Being a man" sounds cavalier and all. But when dealing with government entities that don't add up to spit. Good luck. I'd rather have advice BEFORE than after.

By the way, your last two responses make you sound like a prick.
 
2dumb4words said:
One consults an attorney to gain a better understanding of legal ramifications to better assess how to approach the problem. "Being a man" sounds cavalier and all. But when dealing with government entities that don't add up to spit. Good luck. I'd rather have advice BEFORE than after.

By the way, your last two responses make you sound like a prick.
Click to expand...

No, they make him sound like a man who is about to get run over by something over which he has no control.

He's been in that same area a long time. He's done his work, he's paid his taxes, he's contributed a great deal to the local economy...he's played by all the rules that he's been told to play by.

Now they're talking about changing the rules but this time he won't even get to play. He might well be forced out of business by a bunch of well meaning but basically clueless bureaucrats who either don't know or damn well don't care if he suffers in the process.

He has his whole life, everything that he is and everything that he wants to be, wrapped up in that business

Sounds like a prick? I don't think so. Not even close. What he sounds like is angry. And I don't blame him. I don't blame him at all.
 
prisoners of the state of OR have to "work". Some of it goes back to state to pay for upkeep.

I would talk to the commissioners as well but find out what the law is regarding prisoner labor. Maybe a law was passed recently you missed.
 
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I'm just gonna sit here quietly and try to extract my foot from my mouth.

I shouldn't have posted at all. I still think discussing your options with an attorney is advisable.

Best wishes.
 
Near me in Arkansas is the ADOC. They have several work crews, however they are limited to ONLY working on state type properties such as schools, some highway embankments, and parks. What I am trying to say is that they are NOT for hire to individuals...like say a tornado came through and wiped out a bunch houses or trees, they are not allowed to come help. So basically the State would have to buy the property with the timber on it in order to have inmates work it.

I am surprised to hear of your ordeal...I would be incredibly PTFO! I hope you get this resolved...this is just more "Big Brother" crap trying to put their thumb down, hoping no one will ask questions. Good luck to you Sir!
 
Correctional institutions should haul in a few loads of rip-rap and have the inmates make smaller rocks. All the while using sledge hammers and hand drills.

Unfortunately this probably counts as inhumane treatment or some such foolishness.


Andy I think your right, just calling em up. Lots of times comissioners don't want the pot stirred and giving them a chance to think about the guy they will pizz off may make em blink. They probably don't even have a clue they'd be hurting your business. Before going to court a phone call to the local paper might get some results... It is free.

After all that then it might be time to consult a lawyer. Doing a little research into the laws on your own might give you some ammo for when you talk to em Monday.

Wes
 
A bit of a thread drift, but my liberal much hated brain says that inmates should be educated--taught to read and get their GEDs. Maybe they could get work when they were released. Most have learning disabilities in addition to other problems.

It was sad seeing how slowly the trail cutting crew worked. I don't see how any profit could be made, if that was the goal, by such a crew.

It was a Lane County, OR crew.
 
I agree miss p. but there is plenty of time for them to learn to read now and plenty of assistance. I'm not saying put em to work from sun up to sun down, that would be slavery, but an 8-10 hour job like the rest of us, would still leave plenty of down time to earn geds and assorted other learnings... (I speek englich as a firs't lanquaj). This of course is assuming that they don't have tv or games or half a dozen other distractions, give a man enough time and the proper direction and support they could turn around, and be if not productive citizens than at least getting by without resorting to crime.

Now of course this is all a matter of whether or not the crimes they committed where reformable, some folks do things so bad that I don't have any problem with ending them.
 
2dumb4words said:
One consults an attorney to gain a better understanding of legal ramifications to better assess how to approach the problem. "Being a man" sounds cavalier and all. But when dealing with government entities that don't add up to spit. Good luck. I'd rather have advice BEFORE than after.

By the way, your last two responses make you sound like a prick.
Click to expand...

Why thank you! That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.
I'm a little dissapointed though, that you're just now figuring that out. :poke:

Andy
 
There is alot of work done around here by prison labor in nevada. the work crews are run by nevada division of forestry and are a 12 man crew with a ndf crew boss no guards with them. the only time they have a guard with them is when there is multiple crews on a fire. They do alot of the state contract work for thinning around here. people can hire them out last i looked it was around $700 for a 8 hour day but the time starts when they leave the prison and ends when they get back to the prison so you may only get 4 hours of work or less for that price. I know some people that use them because you dont have to pay workers comp and taxes on them and it can be real difficult anymore to find anyone to do manual labor anymore. I stick only to the federal contracts cause the state ones arent consistent they go out to id every couple of years and once you get it they call and say we have this much money go here and do this work as soon as the money runs out your out work until more money becomes available. They have done a few projects here that really hurt me and others they were great projects if they would of went the way they were supposed to but they didnt. The wood from the thinning was supposed to go to the seniors who couldnt afford it to heat their homes unfortunately some worthless theives would go up every night and take all the wood cut that day then sold it in the winter for a low price. I doubt this project will really be much competition for you because it probably wont last to long before going bankrupt they tried to do it here with biomass boilers heating prisons and some schools with chips. They stopped doing prison labor because it cost them to much and couldnt supply the amount of material need to operate the boilers in their short work days and the ones that are still using the boilers buy the chips from private companies at a lower cost to them and a reliable supply. I would keep going getting your operation set up and not worry that much about the prison plant it wont be around long or much competition. look into a federal stewardship contract with blm or usfs so you have a reliable supply of wood to cut and process like i am doing. If you havent already researched it look into exporting pellets to europe the market is huge and the demand is massive and if set up right very lucrative just make your pellets bag them and load them in containers and either truck them to a port or load on a train and ship to a port to send over seas. There is alot of information and programs out there for exporting pellets if you look into it might be a good option for you.
 
I honestly don't mind turning a con into a productive citizen again but when so many of them get out and then do something (usually the same thing they did the first time) and get thrown back in again i think the point is lost. Not everyone sees the light through reformation and good deeds.

They shouldn't be abused but it shouldn't be the free ride it is.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Gologit said:
No, they make him sound like a man who is about to get run over by something over which he has no control.

He's been in that same area a long time. He's done his work, he's paid his taxes, he's contributed a great deal to the local economy...he's played by all the rules that he's been told to play by.

Now they're talking about changing the rules but this time he won't even get to play. He might well be forced out of business by a bunch of well meaning but basically clueless bureaucrats who either don't know or damn well don't care if he suffers in the process.

He has his whole life, everything that he is and everything that he wants to be, wrapped up in that business

Sounds like a prick? I don't think so. Not even close. What he sounds like is angry. And I don't blame him. I don't blame him at all.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that pretty much wraps up what I'd like to say but couldn't find the words. :cheers:

Andy
 
You have 2 choices, and 1 long shot hail mary.

1, get up and running first, sign contracts with buyers before they do, and do a better job at it than they can do.

2, dump all the stuff you have and get out...maybe sell them the stuff...

Hail Mary, force them to ditch the plans they have.

Of the three, I like #1 best.
 
And as for prison labor...

I favor 12 hour shifts of heavy back breaking work, all of it community service...mow grass with old fashioned push mowers, pick up trash, paint lines on the asphalt, paint public buildings, paint bridges, build playgrounds and parks, maintain hiking trails, I mean work them so hard they view prison as a true punishment. No convict likes work, it's what they despise most.

12 hour shifts, and hot bunk them: BOOM, you just doubled the prison's bed capacity.

And no TV, no nothing but 3 meals and a shower and cold water to drink- and work.
 
I seem to recall quite a few threads on this site about Prison Blues jeans and very few qualms expressed about them competing with private industry.

Hard to know where the price and costs will settle out. Labor is free, never underestimate the ability of government agencies to kill efficiency but keep on trucking.

Prior to the state take over of jails here circa 1960, my county was the only one of the eight that consistently turned a profit and had its facilities rated as well maintained and adequate. Wasn't anything special other then generations of jailers who had run a tight ship and developed a culture of doing so. The other seven...not so much.

I'd guess the rest of you likewise have seen the well-run agencies that keep on ticking year in, year out...and the greater number that struggle to figure out how to turn on the lights each day.

Did do trail and conservation work one summer for the town, and most days I had an inmate helper or two. Weren't firecrackers, but I only had one I had to tell them to not send back because he was useless as a tit on a bull. Town also used a crew at the dump to sort recyclables. But even with the cash cost being minimal (I think they cost us $8/day) and a town that squeezes pennies (our tax rate is about 40% below average for the state)...we only did that for a few years then contracted out the recycling program to a private vendor who could do it for less.
 

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