What The Heck?

[redprospector]

Well, I spent 2 hours on the phone today with 2 different county comissioners. :bang: Long story short, I'm screwed and they couldn't care less.
I told them of my concernes that the government shouldn't be in private industry. They both basicly said that they agree with me, BUT...
All it means when they say but, is to forget everything they just said, and they'll tell you where they really stand.
Oh well, I'm done whining about this. Life is a series of starting over, looks like it's time to start over again.

Andy

 

[OlympicYJ]

Sorry to hear Andy. Frikin beauracrats... maybe it'll happen maybe it won't. Ya never know about the goobermint.

Best wishes

Wes

 

[cpr]

That sucks, but on the phone they can say whatever they want. A little letter to the editor of the county paper that gets in puts them on the spot of having to defend it publicly. Nothing to be lost other than a stamp and some pencil lead...

 

[redprospector]

That sucks, but on the phone they can say whatever they want. A little letter to the editor of the county paper that gets in puts them on the spot of having to defend it publicly. Nothing to be lost other than a stamp and some pencil lead...

Oh, there'll be a letter to the editor, one to the congressman that is encouraging them, the governor, and anyone else I can think of to write one to.
These guy's are already having to defend themselves publicly. They were elected because they said they wanted smaller government. Hahaha, now look at em.
I asked one of these knuckle heads; If you get this done, and then decide that the county could run a convenience store better, what would stop you from building one? He said; "Absolutly Nothing". :bang:
Oh well, maybe I can get "re-trained" to be an astronaut.

Andy

 

[floyd]

Next stop state representative.

 

[kyle1!]

Looks like it is time to hit the pavement and make as much noise as possible by going to the necessary gov meetings, opinions, emailing representative nonstop and maybe even a website to direct others to help with your cause. There has to be someone out there that will listen

Brian

 

[Double_Diamond]

I don't know how it works down where you are but it I assume that your county commissioners are elected officials. Generally gentleman farmers with way too much time on their hands. They don't do any actual work, usually just show up to things, kiss babies, shake hands and sit on committees. It is usually someone employed by the county who does the real work and the commissioners take credit for what gets done. I would be interested in who at the county will be running the show. There should probably be some type of staff report detailing out their plan, who will run it and expected costs and profits. This would be available to the public and should have been presented in an open meeting. These are assumptions on my part knowing how county government works in my area, it may be totally different where you are. If the above is true I would get my hands on the staff report and see what assumptions were made and how realistic they are. It sounds like you have done your homework and have a good business plan. You can use that to evaluate what the county intends to do and see if they have a chance in heck of making a go of it. I can't imagine they have the in-house capabilities to run the operation so would the be hiring someone to run it or would they have a consultant come in and do it? Who knows, it could turn into a good opportunity for you. Generally government is okay doing their day to day operations but it sounds like this is something totally new to them so they need help or they will fail miserably.

 

[strangersfaces]

Well, I spent 2 hours on the phone today with 2 different county comissioners. :bang: Long story short, I'm screwed and they couldn't care less.
I told them of my concernes that the government shouldn't be in private industry. They both basicly said that they agree with me, BUT...
All it means when they say but, is to forget everything they just said, and they'll tell you where they really stand.
Oh well, I'm done whining about this. Life is a series of starting over, looks like it's time to start over again.

Andy

Andy,

Your issue interests me and I spent a bit of time online tonight learning what I could which might possibly help. It's late, I'll post up more of what I've found (which may or may not help whatsoever), but I just came across something I thought should be made known ASAP in case you were unaware of the Osero County Commissioners meeting:

*** Thursday, 2/14 (TODAY, takes place at 9am in 123), "Regular Meeting", item #20

Request approval of Resolution # 02-14-13/101-53 authorizing and approving submission of an NMFA Grant application to fund the Otero County Pellet Plant Project.

More once I've had some shuteye,

Lance

 

[strangersfaces]

So,

In researching the issue last night I began by pulling up whatever local (to Otero County) news sources were reporting on the County's proposal to buy and begin operations at the idle Pellet Mill. I found just one newspaper story covering the topic. On January 10th there was an article in the Alamogordo Daily News (and reprinted elsewhere) by staff writer, Janessa Maxilom, titled "County Commission seeks to buy pellet mill factory in Tularosa".

Clips from that story:

"... County commissioner Ronny Rardin said that the county commission has been discussing the possibility of purchasing a pellet mill that is currently owned by the Premier Pellet Company.

County Commissioner Tommie Herrell said that the price to purchase the mill from the company would be $839,000."

"... Rardin... said even though the company pulled out, the material for making pellets is readily available in the Lincoln National Forest. He said the reason the commission has considered buying the mill was because they feel it could make a profit and improve the county's economy. "

"... "As soon as we can get up in the mountains we are going to be cutting and thinning with the forest service," Rardin said. "We are going to be working and cutting up in the forest, I know that for sure. And we are going to be having a lot and a lot of biomass coming out of that forest."

Rardin said it was practical to use the biomass for the proposed pellet mill project.

"As our job is to protect the health, safety and welfare of Otero County, that's why I'm elected," he said. "I see it as a necessity to own the hub of the place that could bring life to everybody else."

New Mexico State University has done research on what the forest could produce. County commissioners got a copy of the report to understand what they would be undertaking if they purchased the pellet mill."

"... For now, the project is still being considered, but the county commission has teamed up with the local national forest service to thin the forest.

The county commission board already had a few work sessions to discuss the pellet mill project. At the Dec. 26, 2012 commission meeting the topic was discussed.

No decisions have been made, but commissioner Herrell said he would like a decision to be made within the next 60 days."

*****​

No mention of using prison labor. How good a reporter is Janessa Maxilom? Does she dig for facts or merely re-write press releases? She might be a good source for information. The New Mexico State University report could be an interesting read. Also, who from Otero County requested and received the report...

Wanting to learn more, such as where and when the idea first surfaced, also whose idea was it and who among the commissioners, if any, stands to personally profit from the business, I began by visiting the Otero County website. They are redoing the site and the "New" part lacks content, but the Original site still has a good deal of info. I chose "Commission Agendas" and decided to examine Commission agendas from each meeting beginning in January of 2012. Any "official" agendas which mention anything that might be at all connected with the Pellet Mill/Forest are shown below:

Note: When minutes of meetings concerning any subject are clicked on (to the right), one gets: HTTP Status 403-Access to the specified resource () has been forbidden. Minutes of public meetings are password protected?

Otero County Commissioners Meetings of Possible Relevance, 2012

Wednesday, June 13, "Regular Meeting" item #5
Request approval to apply for and accept a USDA Rural Business Enterprise Grant (RBEG) to be used in conjunction with New Mexico Biomass Technologies. The RBEG program provides grants for rural projects that finance and facilitate development of small and emerging rural business. To assist with business development, RBEG's may fund a broad array of activities.

Wednesday, August 8, "Work Session" Items #12 & #13
12: Request approval of the renewal of an agreement between Otero County and Daniel Martinez for Consulting Services at seventy-five ($75.00) an hour, regarding National Forest Management issues.

13:http://66.208.116.79:8080/agenda/ot...d=EF9B36D3454576700BF267F1D74EB920?select=877 Request approval of a professional services agreement between Otero County and Blair Dunn for Legal Services regarding Lincoln National Forest & RS2477 issues. **Action Item at the Work Session**

Thursday, August 16, "Regular Meeting" item #13

Request approval of the renewal of an agreement between Otero County and Daniel Martinez for Consulting Services at seventy-five ($75.00) an hour, regarding National Forest Management issues.


Thursday, October 11, "Regular Meeting" item #3 & #18

#3: Request approval for Otero County to adopt the Smoked Bear Program. Smoked Bear's mission is to protect millions of animals from burning and to stop wildfires from polluting our nation by grazing and logging to reduce wildfire fuel. The goal of the Smoked Bear Initiative is to stop the wildfires that are burning millions of animals.

#18: Request approval of a Cost Share Agreement between Otero County and the USDA, Forest Service for the purpose of cooperation between the parties to reduce hazardous fuels in the Sacramento Ranger District.

Thursday, October 8, "Regular Meeting" #2

Request approval for Otero County to adopt the Smoked Bear Program. Smoked Bear's mission is to protect millions of animals from burning and to stop wildfires from polluting our nation by grazing and logging to reduce wildfire fuel. The goal of the Smoked Bear Initiative is to stop the wildfires that are burning millions of animals.

Wednesday, December 26, "Commission Special Meeting"

ONE ISSUE: ***Special Meeting to discuss the Pellet Mill Project


Otero County Commissioners Meetings of Possible Relevance, 2013


*** Thursday, 2/14 (TODAY, takes place at 9am in 123), "Regular Meeting", item #20

Request approval of Resolution # 02-14-13/101-53 authorizing and approving submission of an NMFA Grant application to fund the Otero County Pellet Plant Project.

*****​

Daniel Martinez and Blair Dunn must know lots. Should they be tight lipped, their Secretaries, Office help, Custodians and/or spouses may be less so.

The NMFA Grant Application could be interesting reading.

NMFA's next scheduled Board Meeting is:

NMFA Board Meeting
Date: February 22, 2013
Location: Mabry Hall, Jerry Apodaca Education Building
300 Don Gaspar
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Time: 9 am – 1 pm

Additional information, contact [email protected].

NMFA Mission Statement
We are dedicated to improving the lives of New Mexicans, by planning and financing infrastructure, strengthening the economy through public/private partnerships and setting the standard for superior, diverse, innovative and solution-driven financing.

Values Statement
To the NMFA, values represent the core priorities in the organization's culture


NMFA policy on Governmental entities competing with private enterprise? Employment of Prison Labor at the expense of private Citizens?

Thought I'd put up what little I've learned in the off chance that something might help.

Best wishes with the fight,

Lance

 

[northmanlogging]

umm shouldn't meeting minutes be part of public record? how come I smell more the smoked bear, more like festering chipmunk...

good luck... its hard enough to fight a city gub-a-mint let alone county

 

[slowp]

Sounds like a FOIA request is in order for the Forest Service side too.

It also sounds like Redprospector could get the same grant to help out with his business. There are people who specialize in writing grant requests, and there is usually one with the local Forest Service. Wildlife and fish projects done by the FS are often funded through grants so they need to know how to write proposals.

Another angle, would be to look into the requirements. I do know that for non-timber sale contracts, the FS has to see and keep records on payroll amounts and who is getting paid.

Strangersfaces, good work!

What TV stations cover that area? Do they like to do stories on shady deals? Radio? Maybe even NPR?

 

[hammerlogging]

click heels together three times and say "sequester" and it will all go away.

 

[slowp]

Actually, walk into FS office and say, "Civil Rights" and watch the panic!:msp_biggrin:

 

[redprospector]

So,

In researching the issue last night I began by pulling up whatever local (to Otero County) news sources were reporting on the County's proposal to buy and begin operations at the idle Pellet Mill. I found just one newspaper story covering the topic. On January 10th there was an article in the Alamogordo Daily News (and reprinted elsewhere) by staff writer, Janessa Maxilom, titled "County Commission seeks to buy pellet mill factory in Tularosa".

Clips from that story:

"... County commissioner Ronny Rardin said that the county commission has been discussing the possibility of purchasing a pellet mill that is currently owned by the Premier Pellet Company.

County Commissioner Tommie Herrell said that the price to purchase the mill from the company would be $839,000."

"... Rardin... said even though the company pulled out, the material for making pellets is readily available in the Lincoln National Forest. He said the reason the commission has considered buying the mill was because they feel it could make a profit and improve the county's economy. "

"... "As soon as we can get up in the mountains we are going to be cutting and thinning with the forest service," Rardin said. "We are going to be working and cutting up in the forest, I know that for sure. And we are going to be having a lot and a lot of biomass coming out of that forest."

Rardin said it was practical to use the biomass for the proposed pellet mill project.

"As our job is to protect the health, safety and welfare of Otero County, that's why I'm elected," he said. "I see it as a necessity to own the hub of the place that could bring life to everybody else."

New Mexico State University has done research on what the forest could produce. County commissioners got a copy of the report to understand what they would be undertaking if they purchased the pellet mill."

"... For now, the project is still being considered, but the county commission has teamed up with the local national forest service to thin the forest.

The county commission board already had a few work sessions to discuss the pellet mill project. At the Dec. 26, 2012 commission meeting the topic was discussed.

No decisions have been made, but commissioner Herrell said he would like a decision to be made within the next 60 days."

*****​

No mention of using prison labor. How good a reporter is Janessa Maxilom? Does she dig for facts or merely re-write press releases? She might be a good source for information. The New Mexico State University report could be an interesting read. Also, who from Otero County requested and received the report...

Thank's Lance,
Good job!! Your research followed a very similar path to mine. You did find a couple of things I hadn't, thank you again. I have written to Congressman Pearce, who was neck deep in trying to revive some fraction of the timber industry here. I think this is an unintended consequence of his enthusiasm.
I don't know the reporter Janessa Maxilom, but around here we call the Sunday edition of the Alamogordo Daily News the "Weekly Wiper" if that gives you an idea of what I think of them. I got the information on the inmate labor straight from the horses mouth (or which ever end it was). Rarden, and Herrell told me over the phone that was their plan.
I will be composing a letter to the NMFA explaining my position, asking them not to fund this project in any way. I think Rardin's own word's "I see it as a necessity to own the hub of the place that could bring life to everybody else." will work against them in the end (along with a lot of other things that goofball has said).
If I'm not able to rally the troops and stop them, I believe that the county is about to learn a very expensive lesson at our expense. Not to mention the fact that I am having to re-write my business plan, and make some life altering decisions.
It's funny to me how these government entities have their meetings at 9:00 AM on Tuesday mornings when most of the people who might be interested in anything on their agenda are at work trying to make a living.

Andy

 

[ropensaddle]

Sounds like a FOIA request is in order for the Forest Service side too.

It also sounds like Redprospector could get the same grant to help out with his business. There are people who specialize in writing grant requests, and there is usually one with the local Forest Service. Wildlife and fish projects done by the FS are often funded through grants so they need to know how to write proposals.

Another angle, would be to look into the requirements. I do know that for non-timber sale contracts, the FS has to see and keep records on payroll amounts and who is getting paid.

Strangersfaces, good work!

What TV stations cover that area? Do they like to do stories on shady deals? Radio? Maybe even NPR?

Everything I have seen for grants is for non profit business. Why is it our national forests get cut in the first place and where is every dime made ? It is not their forest it's the public's. Law here states no chainsaws or timber cutting period that should mean them too hahaha

 

[slowp]

Copied from Strangerface's post.

Request approval to apply for and accept a USDA Rural Business Enterprise Grant (RBEG) to be used in conjunction with New Mexico Biomass Technologies. The RBEG program provides grants for rural projects that finance and facilitate development of small and emerging rural business. To assist with business development, RBEG's may fund a broad array of activities.

 

[redprospector]

Sounds like a FOIA request is in order for the Forest Service side too.

It also sounds like Redprospector could get the same grant to help out with his business. There are people who specialize in writing grant requests, and there is usually one with the local Forest Service. Wildlife and fish projects done by the FS are often funded through grants so they need to know how to write proposals.

Another angle, would be to look into the requirements. I do know that for non-timber sale contracts, the FS has to see and keep records on payroll amounts and who is getting paid.

Strangersfaces, good work!

What TV stations cover that area? Do they like to do stories on shady deals? Radio? Maybe even NPR?

I'm planning on trying for a grant again, but I think I need to stop the county first or there won't be any need to. The last time I put in for a grant for a pellet plant the Mescalero Tribe decided that they would like to have that money, which in a round about way is where the now defunked pellet plant came from. When it became evident that they weren't going to get off the ground I started working on it on my own, holding my cards close to my vest because the last time I let anyone know what I had planned I was beaten to the draw. So this isn't the first time I've been through this.
One of the station's up in Albuquerque has a "bulldog" that reports on scandalous acts across the state (New Mexico has always been corrupt, so he stays pretty buisy). He busted a murderous deputy sheriff here a few years ago. I'll see what they do with gentle nudging, then if necissary I'll sic the tv guy on em.

Andy

 

[northmanlogging]

Everything I have seen for grants is for non profit business. Why is it our national forests get cut in the first place and where is every dime made ? It is not their forest it's the public's. Law here states no chainsaws or timber cutting period that should mean them too hahaha

I'm not real clear on the specifics but the national forest system was created to manage timber cutting, so things like what happened in the lake states, back before WWI wouldn't happen to what was left of our forests, mostly what was untouched our here in the west. The original plan was something more along the lines of more conservation, less flat out raping of the forests. Its kinda worked. By all accounts its broken now, once you start a plan in forestry you have to keep moving on it, you can modify but you can't just take a hands off approach, unless you take really careful steps at the beginning. The money was meant for the federal gub-a-mint to have an income of sorts without using income tax, while making the Forest Service a self sustaining part of it. For many reasons mostly political it don't work that way anymore...

The national park system and wilderness areas on the other hand are almost totally hands off, and have been for quite some time. You can look but you can't touch kinda deal.

There is a wonderful book, out on the history of american forests, from columbus to the Spotted turkey. I'll try and find the name fer ya...

 

[strangersfaces]

......I got the information on the inmate labor straight from the horses mouth (or which ever end it was). Rarden, and Herrell told me over the phone that was their plan.

Rarden, R A R D E N..., "whichever end..." REAR ND... This end?

......
I will be composing a letter to the NMFA explaining my position, asking them not to fund this project in any way. I think Rardin's own word's "I see it as a necessity to own the hub of the place that could bring life to everybody else." will work against them in the end (along with a lot of other things that goofball has said).

I too thought that was a telling statement...

...
It's funny to me how these government entities have their meetings at 9:00 AM on Tuesday mornings when most of the people who might be interested in anything on their agenda are at work trying to make a living.

Or, at the very least, make the complete minutes of the meetings available online so they may be easily accessed by working folks. What's with the "Forbidden access" crap?

...
I was on the phone today with one of our state foresters, and he gave me some news that I found disturbing.
......; Our county commissioners have evidently decided that they are going into the forest thinning business. They are going to be using county inmates for labor, and... have decided to buy the property & equipment from a defunked shavings mill and convert it into a pellet mill. They will (according to the forester) be using inmates for labor there too.

... Over the last 18 months, I have been working at purchasing a piece of property, and equipment to put together a small pellet mill and pole peeling operation. My thoughts were while starting out I could at least have a place to go with my logs and poles. Then if things worked out maybe I could give others a market for their small diameter stuff. I've already got a pretty large investment in this little venture.

..... there is no way that I can compete with the government using inmate labor.

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm just trying to figure out what to do with the property, pole peeler, 150 kw generator, and all the other stuff I've invested in.......

Yeah, just imagine if you had $3 or 400,000.00 invested in equipment to be able to do your job and then they started doing that to you.

Where you recognized the local need for a Pellet Plant long ago and have since that time been actively planning and investing in the property and equipment to see the plan to fruition (in other words, you didn't just recently and conveniently, since the County plan was announced, pull this plan out of your REAR ND), can SHOW the products of your efforts, AND that you have the knowledge gained through years in the Forest industry which is necessary in order to set up and run the business with great potential to produce real jobs in the community, I'd surmise that you are FAR more qualified than politicians in County Government to perform the service to the community. Not to mention, more likely to turn a profit. These elements should work in your favor with any responsible thinkers in higher and funding agencies, such as NMFA and RBEG.

Perhaps.... The best solution for all would be for the County to proceed with purchase of the Pellet Plant if they can get a good deal for the property. (By the way, are there any Commissioners invested with the existing owners who stand to gain from the sale?) Then, in the event capacity should exceed the capabilites of your main base of operations, you can then share a percentage of profits from that Pellet Plant location with the County, and THEY can sit back and take credit for the budget bonus... Everybody wins! lol

EDIT: I took so long with this post that I hadn't seen your update:

I'm planning on trying for a grant again, but I think I need to stop the county first or there won't be any need to. The last time I put in for a grant for a pellet plant the Mescalero Tribe decided that they would like to have that money, which in a round about way is where the now defunked pellet plant came from. When it became evident that they weren't going to get off the ground I started working on it on my own........
Andy

If the property you had planned to utilize was the VERY SAME Pellet Plant the County is after, then please disregard the paragraph above. I had imagined you had, or had in mind, another, unrelated property... Perhaps mistakenly.

I'm planning on trying for a grant again, but I think I need to stop the county first or there won't be any need to. The last time I put in for a grant for a pellet plant the Mescalero Tribe decided that they would like to have that money, which in a round about way is where the now defunked pellet plant came from. When it became evident that they weren't going to get off the ground I started working on it on my own, holding my cards close to my vest because the last time I let anyone know what I had planned I was beaten to the draw. So this isn't the first time I've been through this......
Andy

I had a question about that in mind... This "County buying Pellet Mill" idea came from somewhere.... I wondered if somebody in the know about your direction may have let the concept slip out... It's a small world.

It would be interesting to learn just when the County signed the contract to thin? I looked for that when examining the meeting agendas and didn't find the answer. Perhaps an oversight on my part? Or was that also kept hush? The County "Plan" had to have been in the works before that time....


Andy, I'm working in my shop at home for a spell and so have ready online access and periods during day and night which I can spend as I see fit. Should you think of any more investigative grunt work I might be able to do from here, PM with an assignment which will self-destruct in 30 seconds should I be unable to perform the duty at that time...

Best wishes in the struggle,

Lance

 

[ropensaddle]

Copied from Strangerface's post.

Request approval to apply for and accept a USDA Rural Business Enterprise Grant (RBEG) to be used in conjunction with New Mexico Biomass Technologies. The RBEG program provides grants for rural projects that finance and facilitate development of small and emerging rural business. To assist with business development, RBEG's may fund a broad array of activities.

Never once have I seen normal folk receive a grant it go's to foreigners with dots on their forehead or some other minority. I looked into disadvantaged business grants if I had boobs or was a forign person maybe.