So I finally pulled the trigger on my red and white pine plantations. Only bought the land 5 years ago and the pines had not been maintained since they were planted. They are crowded, hit terminal growth and aren't much more valuable than pulp. There are some sawlogs but mostly on the edges. The wife and I are kicking around ideas for reforestation and income potential. I'd like to do a christmas tree farm, she says she only knows poor christmas tree farmers. YAR! We've talked about a you-pick berry business, timber for the great grandkids, food plots, orchards and well that's about as far as we've gotten. Just wondering what the folks on here had for ideas. So let's hear it.
what to reforest with?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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DavdH
ArboristSite Operative
commercial thin or thin, work on spacing and access they should release,
probably not near terminal growth, growth should be measured per unit land not stem.
Growth will never = inflation.
Do what you enjoy, if it is and investment it is a long term investment, the goberment changes the rules much faster than the timber grows.
probably not near terminal growth, growth should be measured per unit land not stem.
Growth will never = inflation.
Do what you enjoy, if it is and investment it is a long term investment, the goberment changes the rules much faster than the timber grows.
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hire a forester first. You need one to tell you what kind of quality you have in your timber and what kind of volume you have. Clearcutting on a wild hare to get into the christmas tree farm is not the best of ideas, initially.
Thinning could help, how well they respond depends on the live crown ratio.
Moderate to severely suppressed trees rarely respond to a thin.
Read here and here and here
Thinning could help, how well they respond depends on the live crown ratio.
Moderate to severely suppressed trees rarely respond to a thin.
Read here and here and here
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Was not a wild hare, nor spur of the moment decision. I've done my homework and my legwork too. Plenty of timber cruises with DEC forester, private forester and even some of my old professors from my encon schooling days. Pines were extremely crowded, live crown ration is less than 15%. Additionally we are on the top of a hill so thining could potentially lead to wind erosion on the remaining trees. I did a small clearcut myself to open up our sunrise view and once the wind kicked up the trees on the sides started to topple. Cutting this lot was the best management practice option. I'm just trying to decide on where to go from here.
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
You mean blowdown.
What was the site index?
Did the forester not give you a recommendation for the christmas tree farm and reforestation recommendations?
yes, wind erosion is blowdown.
site index was 60 for both the red and white pines. Though i'm not looking at replanting red and white pines.
DEC forester thought christmas tree farm was a good idea. No real feedback from private forester other than "oh that'd be neat. He got pretty disengaged once he saw I wasn't sitting on 15 acres of saw logs.
I'm not looking at doing the whole lot as a christmass tree farm though.
Just want some ideas to kick around is all.
site index was 60 for both the red and white pines. Though i'm not looking at replanting red and white pines.
DEC forester thought christmas tree farm was a good idea. No real feedback from private forester other than "oh that'd be neat. He got pretty disengaged once he saw I wasn't sitting on 15 acres of saw logs.
I'm not looking at doing the whole lot as a christmass tree farm though.
Just want some ideas to kick around is all.
How much land?
Christmas tree farm. The only thing you can make money growing on 15 acres will land you in jail. If you make enough to pay the taxes and fund a few improvements and create a good family lifestyle you're ahead of the game.
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forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
Lol, wind erosion is the physical weathering of the Earth's surface by wind.
Blowdown is where the wind blows down the residual trees or stand.
At that live crown ratio, those trees have a very limited root system as well, probably the main reason for getting blowdown after a thin. A better thinning in the past from whoever planted them would have resulted in more vigorous root systems.
A site index of 60 (I'm assuming at a base age of 50 years) isn't too bad, depends on the soils.
Are the soils shallow, moderately deep, or deep there? Soil is the most limiting factor for growth of any tree, so do a little research on your soils before investing in reforestation for the christmas tree farm.
Drive around and see what other area christmas farms are planting.
Blowdown is where the wind blows down the residual trees or stand.
At that live crown ratio, those trees have a very limited root system as well, probably the main reason for getting blowdown after a thin. A better thinning in the past from whoever planted them would have resulted in more vigorous root systems.
A site index of 60 (I'm assuming at a base age of 50 years) isn't too bad, depends on the soils.
Are the soils shallow, moderately deep, or deep there? Soil is the most limiting factor for growth of any tree, so do a little research on your soils before investing in reforestation for the christmas tree farm.
Drive around and see what other area christmas farms are planting.
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Better check with a tax guy before planting an xmas tree plantation. Rules have made it spendy to establish a new one. Depreciation has been changed considerably.
Find out your soil type to help determine what species of trees to plant.
Timing has alot to do with when to thin. Need enough time for the roots to get wind hardy to lessen windthrow after a thinning operation. If you can finish the thinning before the rainy season in your area that is good.
Thinning should be done to increase the value of the resudual stand. In your case, as in many cases, the time has passed for that.
Talk to your state forestry service about what species to reforest with. Don't rule out hardwoods.
Whatever you do it will be for the next generation.
Find out your soil type to help determine what species of trees to plant.
Timing has alot to do with when to thin. Need enough time for the roots to get wind hardy to lessen windthrow after a thinning operation. If you can finish the thinning before the rainy season in your area that is good.
Thinning should be done to increase the value of the resudual stand. In your case, as in many cases, the time has passed for that.
Talk to your state forestry service about what species to reforest with. Don't rule out hardwoods.
Whatever you do it will be for the next generation.
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not knowing more about your lifestyle goals & location, but sort of guessing reading between the lines my answer to your question is: yes.
One assumption is you're looking for something to keep you active in retirement.
The other is you either have a spot visible to a decent traffic flow, or you're near enough a population center to advertise a bit to attract people.
15 acres is plenty for a small U-pick berry, orchard, and christmas tree business that gives you some cash flow roughly half of the year. Ain't gonna grow rich unless you have a "special" U-pick weed and 'shroom back acre
But might break even on taxes and toys. And get to enjoy wildlife (or at least try to outwit the deer) from having a lot of "edge" environments between forest and field. Let mixed woods for wildlife and firewood grow were you're farming.
That would be my dream anyway
One assumption is you're looking for something to keep you active in retirement.
The other is you either have a spot visible to a decent traffic flow, or you're near enough a population center to advertise a bit to attract people.
15 acres is plenty for a small U-pick berry, orchard, and christmas tree business that gives you some cash flow roughly half of the year. Ain't gonna grow rich unless you have a "special" U-pick weed and 'shroom back acre
But might break even on taxes and toys. And get to enjoy wildlife (or at least try to outwit the deer) from having a lot of "edge" environments between forest and field. Let mixed woods for wildlife and firewood grow were you're farming.That would be my dream anyway
Since you've done some research I'm sure you know how high maintenance Christmas tree farms are. Getting a decent crop is a lot of work. Typically most Christmas trees need leader-trained and crown shaping every year or every other year. You'd need to keep taller grasses to a minimum for the first 8-9 years as they suck up a lot of moisture. Depending on your area, you may need to spray or powder for fungal growth and rust on a yearly basis as well. Other crops are also a lot of work but I've known people who thought they could plant a Christmas tree farm and simply walk away from it, which is not the case.
True. My cousin started one as an additional source of income. He kept after it, got good advice on how to manage it, and did everything he was supposed to do. It was a lot more labor intensive than he'd planned on. Transportation costs after harvest and a glut of trees coming down from the north country made it a break-even deal. He's growing alfalfa on the old Christmas tree site now.
Silly me, I must have those kinds of pine that don't actually touch the EARTH'S SURFACE! friggin R-tard.
To everyone else thanks for the input.
I'm not looking to make a million off this plot, just something to keep me busy, utilize the land and to have a healthy forest to hand down to my kids.
forestryworks
Addicted to ArboristSite
Grapes?
You might be the only one thinking about liners this spring.
Most people involved in the nursery business have spent this summer grubbing out whole blocks of trees or shrubs without ever selling one out of the whole block.
Most tree growers in the Midwest are having a very hard time. No sales, no customers, no new housing.
The market may rebound, but has stalled out over the last 5 years?
Farm land has gone up to $300.00 + per acre in the midwest to rent.
You might be the only one thinking about liners this spring.
Most people involved in the nursery business have spent this summer grubbing out whole blocks of trees or shrubs without ever selling one out of the whole block.
Most tree growers in the Midwest are having a very hard time. No sales, no customers, no new housing.
The market may rebound, but has stalled out over the last 5 years?
Farm land has gone up to $300.00 + per acre in the midwest to rent.
Oldtimer
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'd do one of three things, personally.
Clear cut it 100%, and re-plant with hybrid poplar for pulp production. Those things can grow to tree-length pulp in 15-20 years.
Clear it, and make it a high quality hay field. 2x a year income if you have the right set up. Plus, hayfield is worth a lot more than forest.
Clear it, and re-plant with Walnut or Butternut or some other kind of high value hardwood for long term investment.
The X-mas tree or blueberry ideas require a LOT of time and care...and then people will steal it.
JMPO.
Clear cut it 100%, and re-plant with hybrid poplar for pulp production. Those things can grow to tree-length pulp in 15-20 years.
Clear it, and make it a high quality hay field. 2x a year income if you have the right set up. Plus, hayfield is worth a lot more than forest.
Clear it, and re-plant with Walnut or Butternut or some other kind of high value hardwood for long term investment.
The X-mas tree or blueberry ideas require a LOT of time and care...and then people will steal it.
JMPO.
There are a couple of varieties grown out here that get cut at 7 years. There are huge plantations of it along the Columbia River east of the Cascades. That might just be the ticket. Pretty sure it's f3 P. balsimifera x P. trichocarpa; as I recall, there are 8 varieties from that generation, and only one is the super-fast-growing one.
Oldtimer
Addicted to ArboristSite
7-10 years would be fantastic. I wonder if they would survive the Mid-NH climate with it's 20-30 below zero temps that sometimes last for 2 weeks..
I know several landowners who would love to plant a crop of pulp that can be sent to market in 10 years time.
