What's the future for wood furnaces and stoves?

[Mustang71]

Can you or somebody give examples of non-epa stoves still available?

My daka is a fire box with bricks on the lower part and a baffle above it's pretty basic and not efficent. I'm talking about wood furnaces with secondary burn idk if that makes them an EPA furnace or not. I know they sell stoves that also are basic with no secondary burn.

 

[aokpops]

I will tell the future . I never bought home heating fuel in my entire life of 58 years . I bought a drolet 4 years ago . The drolet has saved me so much work. Not sure if I could fuel a old smoke dragon anymore ? The goal from day one make it easy .

 

[U&A]

I will tell the future . I never bought home heating fuel in my entire life of 58 years . I bought a drolet 4 years ago . The drolet has saved me so much work. Not sure if I could fuel a old smoke dragon anymore ? The goal from day one make it easy .

I agree.

Does the wood need to be dryer fir an EPA stove ? Yes

So what, keep up on your wood pile a few years ahead.

I like my EPA stove. Runs cleaner, runs longer.



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[Be Stihl]

Can you or somebody give examples of non-epa stoves still available?

Sure, buy a good used stove on a popular bidding site. Fisher, Jotul, Vermont Castings to name a few. They can be found and you can save a lot of money especially if you install yourself.


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[Streblerm]

My epa certified Englander stove is going on ten years of service with absolutely zero maintenance other than cleaning out ashes and the very occasional chimney sweep. It makes more controllable heat burning less wood with less smoke than my old VC Defiant. It cost me less than $700 at Home Depot on clearance. The only parts that may need replacing other than gaskets are the secondary air tubes and top baffle plates. When I last checked they were around $125. If this is the future I say bring it on.

I don’t know why some wood furnaces are so expensive. I can only assume it is based on demand. Kind of like geothermal heat pumps. The units themselves cost 3-4x what a normal heat pump costs and the only extra part they contain is the coaxial heat exchanger then you replace the outside unit with the wells or trenches and It drives the cost up even higher.

 

[Mustang71]

I think even a non EPA furnace would have longer burn times. My daka has no way to control the incoming air. It's got a flap with a spring and as the spring heats up the flap closes. All it does is put the fire out when the front of the furnace gets hot not the firebox. I have to run it full open to get any heat out of it. I'd modify it but when its idle I close it to maintain the coals until I heat it up again. If i had the money an englander would be on it's way here.

I have never seen a wood furnace or stove at our home depot but if I saw an englander for 700 I'd buy it.

 

[NSMaple1]

Sometimes paying more money is worth it.

 

[Streblerm]

My Englander is the 30-NC stove, not the furnace although I have seen the furnace and it looks like it shares the same firebox. HD puts all their winter devices on sale around this time of year. I found it online about 70 miles from home and went and picked it up. They only seem to stock the wood burning stoves in more rural areas.

 

[4seasons]

I think even a non EPA furnace would have longer burn times. My daka has no way to control the incoming air. It's got a flap with a spring and as the spring heats up the flap closes. All it does is put the fire out when the front of the furnace gets hot not the firebox. I have to run it full open to get any heat out of it. I'd modify it but when its idle I close it to maintain the coals until I heat it up again.

Sounds like something that should be easy to modify. Either replace the spring with a manual knob or slide. Mine has both. A knob on the outside turns a spring inside the housing. That spring is attached to a flap on the bottom that lets air in. It also has a sliding piece on that flap that cover two holes that need to be open when burning coal. It is a pretty simple setup but it took a while to dial it in, but it works well without the need for any computer control.

 

[Streblerm]

Sometimes paying more money is worth it.

Sometimes, but not always. Sometimes you just get more expensive junk.

In my experience having a few specific criteria in mind and then finding the lowest price offering that meets those criteria is usually the best course of action. Simple and common is usually best.

I mentioned the price of a geothermal unit in an earlier post. I thought I would be smart and spend the money up front and reap the benefits for years to come with my geo install. The Well established name brand heat pump installed by a highly recommended local contractor only lasted 6 years before it died and it never provided enough geo heat to have any kind of payback. Maybe I’m lucky but that was the single worst financial decision I ever made. Second was a steel roof on my pole building which was replaced with shingles after less than five years.

Some of my problems in both situations were based on poor installation which is where being common comes in. There’s a reason most homes in my area have forced air combustion heat and shingle roofs. They work and contractors have lots of experience with them.

 

[Mustang71]

If I were buying new today I'd spend more because it's not much more but when I bought my furnace there was nothing close to the price. Maybe a hotblast but nothing with secondary burn and I didn't know much about wood stoves or furnaces. All these manufacturers make it seem like you throw some wood in and it heats for 8 hours.

When I had the chance to use a new lopi stove over the winter I was amazed at the efficiency and the secondary burn. We heated the whole weekend on what I use in a few hours.

 

[moresnow]

Soooo your nuking full loads in 2 hours? Sounds like a primary air delivery/control issue or excessive draft for sure. Both should be able to be addressed I would think. Any chance you have exhausted your research options here and outside of this site on what other Daka users are doing to maximize there burn times? Barometric damper comes to mind as they seem to be used regularly on furnace installs. You may experience similar disappointing results on another stove/model if you have excessive draw for example (install a manometer perhaps and check?). It can be measured and controlled a few different ways. A few ideas to consider (guessing you have already?).

The newish Englander furnace sounds like a nice upgrade in tech and burn times comparatively. Basically a NC30 in furnace clothes from my understanding. Box store sales should be kicking in soon. Good luck!

 

[Mustang71]

I tried the baro damper and was not happy with it. I may modify the air intake to something I can actually adjust.

 

[Del_]

I tried the baro damper and was not happy with it. I may modify the air intake to something I can actually adjust.

Have you tried making a minimum burn setting?

Like placing a paper clip on the bi metal controlled flap so that when it closes up, it is still open just a little bit.

I did exactly that on my Riteway Model 37 years ago and it worked out well.

 

[Mustang71]

Daka doesn't make furnaces anymore that's y I was wondering if the EPA was doing away with these style furnaces that produce a lot of emissions due to no secondary burn. And if that would cause more efficent ones to come down in price.

 

[Mustang71]

Have you tried making a minimum burn setting?

Like placing a paper clip on the bi metal controlled flap so that when it closes up, it is still open just a little bit.

I did exactly that on my Riteway Model 37 years ago and it worked out well.

Not a bad idea because I can get the same heat out of it with the damper almost closed but the problem is it wont stay like that it just closes lol. I'll try that later

 

[Del_]

Not a bad idea because I can get the same heat out of it with the damper almost closed but the problem is it wont stay like that it just closes lol. I'll try that later

That is a common situation with bi metal controlled air input flaps.

I fashioned a sheet metal wedge that I could adjust. Play around with it. You will be surprised at the difference it makes.

You will be futzing with it for weeks until you get it tuned in. You may also find the minimum air input adjustment needs to be opened up just a little in the shoulder seasons.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Daka doesn't make furnaces anymore that's y I was wondering if the EPA was doing away with these style furnaces that produce a lot of emissions due to no secondary burn. And if that would cause more efficent ones to come down in price.

As I understand it, the first EPA regs for furnaces rolled out in 2017 but they're not very strict. As far as I'm concerned, good riddance to the very polluting type of wood furnaces and other appliances. Now, if you have the means to make your own furnace or stove, personally I think you should make whatever makes you happy, but as far as what's available to buy off the shelf, I think lower emissions is a really great goal. It's too bad that OEMs took so long to make any changes, and people continue to burn green or wet wood making their neighbors breathe their waste. If no one complained, I don't think this would even be on the EPA's radar.

The next regs for furnaces come out in 2020, but like a lot of environmental regulations, it's very likely they'll be rolled back. Currently there's one furnace on the market ready to meet those standards. I have one in my basement, and yes it will heat the house for 8 hours, even in negative temps. I don't think they're gonna lower the price if demand for their product suddenly goes up because they're the only company with an EPA approved appliance. Hopefully other manufacturers come up with something that will also pass muster, but it hasn't happened yet. If several manufacturers can all meet the standard, yes I would imagine there will be some available at a more reasonable price point.

 

[moresnow]

Not a bad idea because I can get the same heat out of it with the damper almost closed but the problem is it wont stay like that it just closes lol. I'll try that later

Give it a try. You might be surprised how many of us follow your attempts! All stove issues just need one thing to me. Resolution Are you running the 521 model? How about improving the ash pan seal somehow? It seemed questionable to me at best when I looked years ago. A sure way to zip through a load when fed extra fresh air from underneath the load like a coal stove. I looked at the 521 several years ago because they were simple and manufactured in Mn. Unfortunately Daka did not keep up with the new reg's to my knowledge. Sad for Mn employee's. Let us know if you gain any ground or try something.

 

[moresnow]

It's too bad that OEMs took so long to make any changes, and people continue to burn green or wet wood making their neighbors breathe their waste.

I have a years long "discussion" going on with one of my OWB buddies who swears he needs wet wood! Unbelievable. He purchases all his wood and wont take dry wood And he is a very successful man in life. Same guy is surrounded by all the free pine he could ever burn in a lifetime. Wont touch it! Even in a OWB of all things. Haaaaaaaaaa.

Purple haze is my description of his place!