What's with this??

[BigUglySquirrel]

I've read a good number of posts in different areas here on the site, and the number of times that I've seen reports of people using a truck/vehicle to pull a notched tree over appalls and frightens me. Maybe it's just the people I've learned from, but we VERY rarely use anything but "manpower" on any job. (roping out, lowering firewood, directing a notched tree) I've been taught that using a vehicle is a bad idea for a number of reasons. Quick list:

A) Potential to compromise the ropes integrity/rope failure.
B) Not as much control over the tension on the line
C) Being mostly residential, the potential for damage from the vehicle (spinning tires)
D) Potential for mechanical failure at the wrong time

There are plenty more safety and aesthetic concerns. So why do I keep seeing guys talking about "hitchin' it up to the truck and lettin' 'er eat"? Is it as common a practice as I'm seeing on here? It surprises me a bit. I'm also assuming that they aren't piecing these trees out, but notchin' and droppin' em. That's something else I've been taught to steer away from, even if you have the room to do it safely. The general consensus was that it's quicker in the long run to piece most jobs down than it is to try to wrestle all the brush and firewood out of the pile and that it does less yard damage. The boss has also made the comment that it didn't look very professional and that customers would get the "I could've bought a saw for less than that and did it myself" mentality. Just curious for some input/opinions on both these points. The guys I've worked with all know their stuff, but sometimes I have to wonder if other people are thing the same way. Thanks!!!

 

[darkstar]

bull

all i can tell you is i have tied a bulldozer to a heavly leaning tree and simply pulled it against its lean [ no cut what soever ] and yes it splits all apart ......... even when the tree was 45% leaning toward house it has worked many times ....a hard to get used to tactic ... 2 things come to mind [ the value, or principal of enormous force , and also [ follow through ]..in other words if the tree begans to fall off to the side.... he rope become unloaded thats bad so you must have consistant follow thorugh the line is pulling hard and fast all the time ...... the speed and force in which it is being pulled will compensate ...ie. pulling at 40 tons and 25 feet per second usually will turn even the most heavy leaners .... now the rope / chain / cable must be very strong ..and always a back up rig ......... and as always there is some risk dark my2cents

 

[okietreedude1]

I use trucks on trees to pull them over quite frequently. Horsepower over manpower. On several occasions i tried the manpower route and manpower just wasnt enough. Ive even set up MA to gain more manpower and it was still a struggle.

As for the idea of pulling over whole trees, the risk of tearing up a street or driveway is less having the top to cushion the fall. A trunk is more liable to do major damage. Same thing in crashing it in a yard. Whats easier to fill in: several small holes or a large crater (left froma log)?

 

[Treeman14]

So uh, darkstar, what size rope are you using for that 40 ton pull? Just curious.

 

[begleytree]

We normally have the tractor w/ front loader on the job to load wood anyway, so it only makes sense to use it to pull. We never use it for roping out anything, just pulling the stub. Rarely is the tractor even moving, we tie off, and tension with it. a sharp pull by hand is almost always enough to bring the stub over.
-Ralph

 

[Jim1NZ]

It all comes down to safety and efficiency. I'm sure everyone will agree.

If its the best option to pull a leaning tree over with machinery and you have the correct gear for the job, then thats what your going to do.

If its faster and just as safe, on person and property, to bomb pieces out rather than rope it all down then why not.

Assess the job situation, then make a sure decision of how its going to be done.

 

[NeTree]

It all comes down to safety and efficiency. I'm sure everyone will agree.

If its the best option to pull a leaning tree over with machinery and you have the correct gear for the job, then thats what your going to do.

If its faster and just as safe, on person and property, to bomb pieces out rather than rope it all down then why not.

Assess the job situation, then make a sure decision of how its going to be done.

Ditto.

 

[Lumberjack]

I've read a good number of posts in different areas here on the site, and the number of times that I've seen reports of people using a truck/vehicle to pull a notched tree over appalls and frightens me. Maybe it's just the people I've learned from, but we VERY rarely use anything but "manpower" on any job. (roping out, lowering firewood, directing a notched tree) I've been taught that using a vehicle is a bad idea for a number of reasons. Quick list:

A) Potential to compromise the ropes integrity/rope failure.
B) Not as much control over the tension on the line
C) Being mostly residential, the potential for damage from the vehicle (spinning tires)
D) Potential for mechanical failure at the wrong time

There are plenty more safety and aesthetic concerns. So why do I keep seeing guys talking about "hitchin' it up to the truck and lettin' 'er eat"? Is it as common a practice as I'm seeing on here? It surprises me a bit. I'm also assuming that they aren't piecing these trees out, but notchin' and droppin' em. That's something else I've been taught to steer away from, even if you have the room to do it safely. The general consensus was that it's quicker in the long run to piece most jobs down than it is to try to wrestle all the brush and firewood out of the pile and that it does less yard damage. The boss has also made the comment that it didn't look very professional and that customers would get the "I could've bought a saw for less than that and did it myself" mentality. Just curious for some input/opinions on both these points. The guys I've worked with all know their stuff, but sometimes I have to wonder if other people are thing the same way. Thanks!!!

Your first 3 points say the same thing.

The 4th is like saying your not going to drive a car because the brakes can fail. Why would a work truck be in such poor repair that it cant pull a tree over?

The only time we actually drive the truck forward to pull over a tree is when we are fighting a leaner and it takes more movement to get the COG in front of the hinge. The rest of the times we tighten the line to an approx. amount needed to pull it (it being a tree or spar) and then use line deflection to finish it off it we judged on the low side.

It takes the same amount of force to pull a tree over (at the same speed) with MA or a truck. The only thing a truck can do is apply force faster. Faster= more work/force to get the piece over faster. If the driver cant modulate the throttle and/or clutch then he shouldnt be behind the wheel to start with.


This has been discussed/argued in the past.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Your first 3 points say the same thing.

The 4th is like saying your not going to drive a car because the brakes can fail. Why would a work truck be in such poor repair that it cant pull a tree over?

If the driver cant modulate the throttle and/or clutch then he shouldnt be behind the wheel to start with.

This has been discussed/argued in the past.

Too true.

 

[Ekka]

The guys I've worked with all know their stuff, but sometimes I have to wonder if other people are thing the same way.

I think the guys you work for are hopeless, you're appalled and frightened, you think it's quicker to climb and piece out, your boss is a fool! Period!!

We are even taught at college to do vehicle pulls ... I'll put money on it that your boss has no formal qualification to teach his wrath, that's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

I even use my mini loader to pull trees over, my truck when it's on bitumen, and my 4wd when it's on grass etc. You think you can piece a tree out quicker than I fire a rope into the tree with a bigshot and drop it?

Get a new boss and crawl out from under that rock.

 

[Jim1NZ]

hahaha shot Ekka, i new it was coming

 

[treeseer]

I use truck/van to pull indirectly by using pulleys too. the machine is more reliable than by hand, not less. I'm curious about your boss's thought that it's less professional, and that he should do the work of blocking down to impress the customer that a "pro" was needed. Maybe he had one or two bad experiences that corrupted his thinking. Let's not be too hard on him boys, we've all been there too.

Still in a way it sounds like a con game to me, and a lack of understanding that the proper use of available equipment to work safely and efficiently is a keystone of professionalism.

Ekka that's the 2nd time you've shown a pic of that fine-looking tree come down. (It's not a euc is it?) Tell me it's making room for a garage or something, please.

dark, now about slowing down and trying sentences and paragraphs ok? That way we won't be hearing you say that you're putting a 40-ton pull on something, when i thinnk you meant a 40-ton push.

 

[Ekka]

Nice Treeseer, pulleys are extra leverage, I once had this mean old leaning ironbark and put it on the 4wd with a 3:1 ma, sweet.

Yeah, the guys building on that block and some trees had to go, plenty stayed though.

I use a 7/8" dia rope on vehicle pulls, rated over 7000KG, if running a bowline up to secure the tree I use 15000kg shackles so no rope rubbing on rope.

We once had a heavily decayed back leaner (had to hinge on callus roll of cavity), to dangerous to climb, to remote for a bucket truck (out bush), leaning back over electric railway tracks, approx 100' ironbark, 3.5' dia ABH. Secured 2 ropes going off at 45deg angle from desired felling direction and tightened up as defence against falling backward. Third line was pull line attached to 4wd, scarfed up and back cut, no worries .... try that by hand!

 

[P_woozel]

I hope you have your rig in 4-lo Ekka, cause pulling in reverse isnt that bright, reverse is geared like 2nd, not really low enough for starting out. Also if your soft rigging breaks you have a busted windsheild instead of a back window.

 

[treeman82]

Anybody who refuses to pull a tree over with a truck when it can be done safely is a fool. Yes, we are in the business of tree care, but we are IN business to make money.

 

[notahacker]

I like the beaver joke. But what do you mean with the tree pulling comment?

 

[notahacker]

I think pulling a tree over is fine. A professional knows how to fell a tree the way it should be dropped, a customer does not. So, whether you block it out or fell it, it is just as impressive if you do not damage property or get injured. I do it as often as I can. I check the surroundings and make an educated decision. And then I "git 'r done!"

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Using a truck for an anchor is fine, but I'd rather piggyback a come-along or Z-rig to the bull rope and use that to do the actual pulling. I feel it's safer and I'm getting paid to do the job, because I can get it done safely.
The biggest problem with the truck pull is there's too much power. In Ekkas picture, that tree needed maybe 1 or 2 hundred pounds of pull. More than that and it becomes hard to set up a good hinge. It's nice to be able to feel the rope and add pressure slowly as it's needed, as well as not having to worry about an over anxious driver barber chairing the tree or busting the top out only to have it land on me.
Now if I were out on a lot clearance and was pulling tree after tree, with no targets, and a driver I could trust with my life, then I might go with the truck pull.

Somebody mentioned a 45 degree leaner over a house. It would be irresponsible to pull that over with one rope and a truck. Most guys would at least top it out first, or use two or three ropes simultaneously to pull.

 

[Ekka]

There's nothing wrong with pulling in reverse, in fact you get a better view.

Never, not once ever, has the rigging broken, it is impossible for the vehicle to put that much force on. The rigging is rated well beyond what's required for the task. I mentioned when dealing with leaners backing up with more ropes and MA's of pulleys.

The vehicles job is to get the tree moving, get the COG beyond the hinge and the tree goes over with the hinge wood steering it. I doubt very much anyone would keep up the tension once the trees going, you simply have too much rope coming at you especially when tied in high up

You do not, I repeat do not, start driving off etc when the guys doing the back cut ... that is stupid. The guy cutting comes up to the hinge, makes his escape and signals the pull over ... like I said, I'm trained and not applying backyard cowboy techniques that may jeopardise safety. In some instances we back it up with a wedge during the back cut so it cant sit on the saw.

 

[treeman82]

I was taught to pre-tension the line with the truck and THEN make the back cut.