What's with this??

[Ekka]

Gicon, We are taught the same for forward leaners and heavily loaded trees.

Back leaners, there's no point. Also you can get stuck when the tree dia exceeds the length of the bar, then you'll be trying to match up the bore cuts.

There shouldn't be that much pressure on the tree as to pull it over whilst you are cutting. In that video link that log was about 8t and leaning backward toward the building beneath. we were working on soft sand, I'd hate to be behind that cutting a strap when as you saw the guy cutting moved well away. Also you may be foregoing the opportunity of a wedged back up.

The saw had a 32" bar on it and was to short.

The tension was taken up and as you could see the pull over was well controlled and backed up.

If you have a forward leaner then there's no point in pulling over unless due to wind etc, nature will do the work.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

liked the Vid Ekka, real proffesional job, liked all the safety precautions and backup.
My twopenny's worth?

I dont like pulling with ropes, I always use 13mm steel caple, but thats just my preference.

I would have pushed the spar over with the 35tonner, I have pushed many a severley leaning tree with 22 ton excavator, its a very controlled way of felling.

as to pulling with vehicles, the problem you can get is as you pull the rope it tends to lift the vehicle, causing a loss of traction. Its down to the bloke on the ground though, any pro will be able to judge the safety margin. putting the rope through a low set pulley will avoid the lift problem.
Myself, I have an 8 tonne hydraulic winch on my chip truck, will pull anything over.

 

[NeTree]

I will say, I respect everyones opinion and realize that everyone has different views on things. Mechanical advantage I agree on, rather than Human advantage, when the time calls. Rarely will I pull a tree over with a truck but if that is a a faster, and still safe method, Ill put a 3/4" Bullline in the top of the tree, cut it, and pull it over, nice and easy. One thing I absolutely 100% DO NOT AGREE WITH is the fact that you guys would make you.................QUOTE]


Hahahaha...... thaz me boy!

 

[Lumberjack]

Sorry to say mate i think thats a crock. In a 4wd, the axles are the same size and strength. It doesn't make any difference whether you tow in reverse if the vehicle is 4wd, as Ekka said you get better visibility and thats about it.

Im sure no one would ever pull a tree over in high range if there was the option of low range. And they would never hook up a 2wd vehicle if it was marginal.

Well, I can defiantly say that in 90-95% of the American made cars/trucks (that are in stock condition), that on 4wd vehicles, the rear axle is indeed stronger. Do some research and get back with me. There may be a select few that are indeed equal, but I doubt that any come from the factory that are equal strength. If I have too I will explain it, but, I would rather you just take care of it and get back with me when ya get it figured out.

And I can say that your second paragraph is false, plenty of people have messed up pulling with vehicles, pulling in high when they could have pulled in low, and used a 2wd that was pulled backwards.

 

[Lumberjack]

Oh, and I guess brakes are equal size and strength and do the same thing as well? Check that out while your at it. The front brakes do up to 80% of the braking. (sometimes more I am sure)

 

[Jim1NZ]

Oh, and I guess brakes are equal size and strength and do the same thing as well? Check that out while your at it. The front brakes do up to 80% of the braking. (sometimes more I am sure)

Your dead right mate, in most cases the breaks ARE the same size and strength, it is just that more pressure is regulated to the front breaks to avoid one or the other end from locking up, as you say.

In my truck and many others in New Zealand, because of the amount of off roading required, the drive lines are the last thing to break.

Don't want to offend or anything, just telling what i know, when i get over to the states and look around, im sure you will be correct.

 

[treeseer]

"Im sure no one would ever pull a tree over in high range if there was the option of low range. And they would never hook up a 2wd vehicle if it was marginal."

Jim, you're still busted on this one. Countless thousands of idiots have pulled trees w 2wd in very marginal conditions. I know: I am one; I have smelled the white smoke of the burning clutch, and cried bitter tears at my own expensive stupidity.

Others here have too, I'm sure, back in their early years...

 

[Jim1NZ]

"Im sure no one would ever pull a tree over in high range if there was the option of low range. And they would never hook up a 2wd vehicle if it was marginal."

Jim, you're still busted on this one. Countless thousands of idiots have pulled trees w 2wd in very marginal conditions. I know: I am one; I have smelled the white smoke of the burning clutch, and cried bitter tears at my own expensive stupidity.

Others here have too, I'm sure, back in their early years...

Yea now i come to think of it, i went to a four wheel drive meet not so long ago, and many people didn't even no how to engage 4wd! Let alone select low range

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

A note on the axle thing-The 14 bolt GM Corporate rearend in my truck is FAR beefier than the front axle. I know all the trucks here in the states are that way unless you get into swapping the front out, and then you'll have to dish out some bucks to get a front drive unit that is as strong as a substantial rear member. The drive ratios MUST be the same (3.73, 4.10 etc) for obvious reasons. The front tires must turn at the same rate as the rears or you get some very interesting results. The major differences between the front vs. rear are that the rear axles are much larger in diameter to support the weight of towing a load. They also have larger and stronger ring and pinion gears so that they don't bust under harsh loading. 3/4 and 1 ton models (and larger) also sport either full or semi-floating axles with thicker axle tubes. These are characterized by the presence of a ring of bolts inside the circle of wheel lugs (1 ton or heavier, full floater) or an extended axle that protrudes 3-4 inches past the wheel mating surface without bolts (this is the defining characteristic of semi-floating units that are common to 3/4 trucks. Generally 2 wheel drive, but not always) The purpose being that the axle tubes of the rear member bear any load, while the axle shafts drive the wheels. The advantages are obvious here. In a 1/2 ton set-up the axle tubes are lighter so the axle shafts have to help bear the load AND drive the wheels. The same is used in passenger type vehicles because the aren't supposed to see repetitive heavy loads or towing or great torque outputs under load. Another great benefit of the full floating axle design is that c-clips that typically hold the axles from flying out are eliminated making the axles VERY easy to replace in the event that one should snap. You don't even have to remove the wheel to change them...just a few bolts, pull the defective unit, slide the new one in, replace bolts and torque. Aside from this, front members are part-time drive units that are designed to increase traction...not bear heavy loads. They also have the added weakness of lockout hubs that can strip/explode and U-joints or CV's that break under stress to keep from blowing the ring and pinion. Front springs are also not as heavy, and they have less leaves (or a coil spring, take your pick...ever wonder why big trucks don't have coil spring rearends? The leaf springs actually help to keep the axle where it's supposed to be and they handle repetitive loads better without losing ride height as quickly) There are a number of other differences , but I won't bore you more than I have. The point is this: Pulling in reverse has it's arguments, but ALL trucks are designed to pull the other direction. Besides that, when the tree's coming down, would you rather be looking straight ahead, or over your shoulder?

 

[Jim1NZ]

True Chris, on 2wd trucks

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

You've made the first major step, looking outside, keep looking and learning, no single person knows all ... and most importantly filter the BS out.

Thanks for the support...I don't know about the rest of you when you were starting out, but sometimes I feel like a Benedict Arnold of sorts for thinking that sometimes there is a better way than the way it's being done. I LOVE BEYOND WORDS THAT I HAVE A PLACE WHERE I CAN GET INPUT ON DIFFERENT SITUATIONS!! I'm slowly breaking the boss into some things he isn't used to, but it's an uphill fight when he's got 15+ yrs. experience on ya and he's used to what he's been doing for so long. Another small example--I climb on a split tail w/a Blake's Hitch and use a steel core flipline w/Petzl RescueScender. I keep touting the advantages of that setup over his traditional, Tauntline hitch and lanyard strap rig....but he's afraid to try it. It gets aggravating!!!!! Sometimes I win and well....sometimes I just keep trying to get him to try it out a few times. Maybe he is a caveman. Again, my hat's off to all you guys for all the insight you provide for us rookies!!! It helps.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

True Chris, on 2wd trucks

???

Quite certain it's true on all trucks, unless I'm missing part of what you're saying. Help me out here....not sure what you mean.

 

[Lumberjack]

I agree with most of everything ya said Chris!

Semi floaters suck for much of any abuse, I busted a 10 bolt 3 times (2 axles and the carrier) before I swung a 14 bolt with discs under it.

The housing on a semi floater still takes the load, starting at the bearing, but the axle spans the gap from the wheel to the bearing, but the housings are lighter because like you said, they aint made for heavy constant loads.

And for sure, trucks are made to pull forward, not in reverse .

Ever notice that tractors normally use semi floaters? Their shafts are quite larger though.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Well 4wds are beefed up in the front drive line, axles and diff to accommodate for the loads and stress put on them. The front of my 4wd wouldn't break before the rear did...

 

[begleytree]

Maybe he is a caveman.

easy killer!!
-Ralph

 

[Lumberjack]

What kinda 4wd do you have Jim? Do you know what axles are under it?


And a nickle says I can bust it, I can bust anything. Wanna call passenger or driver side front

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Well 4wds are beefed up in the front drive line, axles and diff to accommodate for the loads and stress put on them. The front of my 4wd wouldn't break before the rear did...

Uh..Jim, I would hope that the front end in your 4WD is tougher than the front in a 2WD mainly because the 2WD HAS no front drive unit. And what kind of front drive unit are you using that it holds up better than your rear?? I've heard you kiwi's have your own way of doing things, but surely to God you don't tow trailers down the road on your front bumpers??? You'd be tooling around the highway in reverse.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

easy killer!!
-Ralph

Wondered if you'd comment on that one. Ya know, the avatar and all.

By the way...I just saved a ton of money by NOT paying my car insurance!!

 

[Jim1NZ]

I just got a pic but i cant figure how to get it on here!

 

[Jim1NZ]

My 4wd...