Which 60cc saw

[windthrown]

So you love the 361 that's great, but it's also your not so humble opinion.[emoji6] I had one didn't care for it IMHO. Remember you cut in a different environment that has different trees.

A 60cc saw makes an OK limb saw and an OK bucking saw, it doesn't do either exceptionally well. It's made for those whom only have one saw, and it fills that spot well. For myself I prefer a dedicated limb saw and dedicated bucking saw. But that's in my experience and environment, yours may differ. In hardwood the 361 simply falls short IMHO, I mean an Echo 590 is just as strong as a ported 361 with only a mm.[emoji9]

Well, I know that you think you know what kind of trees I cut here, but you are misinformed. As a mater of fact, I have been cutting maples, apple, white oaks, and black locust here, along with some pines and cedars, and I have also been cutting madrone and eucalyptus. See, 200 years or so ago then done dragged a lot of those Midwest hard ass trees that you have there out here in the wagons, and 100 year ago they dragged a bunch of hard ass trees from Oz up here, and we already had a whole lot of hard ass tress here to begin with. We also have big ass softwood trees for sure, but that is not all we have here. However, that is the standard uninformed paradigm in the Midwest and Northeast.

Meh... things never change here. Same old stale arguments, same old misinformation.

 

[Andyshine77]

Well, I know that you think you know what kind of trees I cut here, but you are misinformed. As a mater of fact, I have been cutting maples, apple, white oaks, and black locust here, along with some pines and cedars, and I have also been cutting madrone and eucalyptus. See, 200 years or so ago then done dragged a lot of those Midwest hard ass trees that you have there out here in the wagons, and 100 year ago they dragged a bunch of hard ass trees from Oz up here, and we already had a whole lot of hard ass tress here to begin with. We also have big ass softwood trees for sure, but that is not all we have here. However, that is the standard uninformed paradigm in the Midwest and Northeast.

Meh... things never change here. Same old stale arguments, same old misinformation.

And none of the trees you mentioned are that dense. Maybe the black locusts, but honey locusts it is not. So yes lots of misinformation going around.[emoji9]

 

[SAWMIKAZE]

A few ounces difference? Nope. MS361 = 12.3 lb. MS362 = 13.0 lb. Double digit ounce difference there bub.

I can say a 361 feels measurably lighter than a 362..i have a bunch of the 362s and 361s at the moment...361/2260 are the best 60cc saws..IMO.

 

[Need2Saw]

The outboard clutch design makes the Husky/Jonsereds handle better than other 60cc saws, even when the weight difference isn't large.

The outboard clutch is one part of the 562 that i do not like. I much prefer the inboard clutch on my 390 and dolmar 5105. Easier for me to work with and take apart.

 

[windthrown]

Windthrown, I believe I saw actual weight posted that was higher than that, but I can't find it now. However, if we are going by Stihl official weight, the 362 is currently on a diet and now only weights 12.8 lbs. Stihl even once claimed the 044 was 13 lbs even, and I know that is a fib.

Also, unless it has changed, I believe you previously stated you had never run a 362 C.

That said, I believe the 361 is a very good saw.

My previous recommendation to the OP to check them all out for himself and get the one he likes best still stands, IMO.

Ah, yes: my bad. I was looking at the 362CMQ weight. The flush handle 362CM is 12.8 lb. Sill a half pound more than the 361, which I believe is correct.

It is true that at a previous time, I had never run a 362-CM. I was off this site for awhile, but I ran a 362CMR a while ago for about a half day. We had a hard time starting it, but we ran it against my stock 361 (tuned richer, H tab trimmed) and my stock 036. We bucked up a trailer load of 12-18" diameter 'western softwood' black locust, madrone and white oak logs that I had hauled here for firewood. We swapped bars to make sure that we were comparing saws, and not B&C. Sorry to say that the guy was not happy with his 362 and wanted to trade for or buy my 361, but I declined. He then made me an offer for my minty 036 that I accepted. I did not like the bulk of the 362 (R model), cold blooded, and I presume that the engine setup, carb and intake is the same as the 441, which I have torn down and built up about a half dozen times trying to improve the one I had. Not to my liking. Nor is Mtronic. I accepted the 036 offer only because it was a shelf queen here. Most power of the 3 saws in the group, 10 seconds is all it takes to tune it, it starts on one pull. I also got top dollar for it.

 

[LRains]

Ah, yes: my bad. I was looking at the 362CMQ weight. The flush handle 362CM is 12.8 lb. Sill a half pound more than the 361, which I believe is correct.

It is true that at a previous time, I had never run a 362-CM. I was off this site for awhile, but I ran a 362CMR a while ago for about a half day. We had a hard time starting it, but we ran it against my stock 361 (tuned richer, H tab trimmed) and my stock 036. We bucked up a trailer load of 12-18" diameter 'western softwood' black locust, madrone and white oak logs that I had hauled here for firewood. We swapped bars to make sure that we were comparing saws, and not B&C. Sorry to say that the guy was not happy with his 362 and wanted to trade for or buy my 361, but I declined. He then made me an offer for my minty 036 that I accepted. I did not like the bulk of the 362 (R model), cold blooded, and I presume that the engine setup, carb and intake is the same as the 441, which I have torn down and built up about a half dozen times trying to improve the one I had. Not to my liking. Nor is Mtronic. I accepted the 036 offer only because it was a shelf queen here. Most power of the 3 saws in the group, 10 seconds is all it takes to tune it, it starts on one pull. I also got top dollar for it.

I have had no issues with the Mtronics and starting I'm kind of stunned that you found it more difficult to fire off. I know some don't like the Mtronics due to they can't tune the carb to their likening but I have not had an issue just strong running saws. And in my opinion the 362C feels stronger than the 361 although I only ran the saw for about four hours.

 

[windthrown]

And none of the trees you mentioned are that dense. Maybe the black locusts, but honey locusts it is not. So yes lots of misinformation going around.[emoji9]

Blue gum eucalyptus is not dense? I can hear the Aussies screaming from here. Never mind Madrone. No honey locust here, they die from fungus rot in the PNW. Lots of that on the other side of the cascades though.

Janka hardness is actually how you want to compare hardwoods though, not density. I will see if I can dig up my old posts comparing typical hardwood species that I cut to typical species in the Midwest.

 

[Andyshine77]

Blue gum eucalyptus is not dense? I can hear the Aussies screaming from here. Never mind Madrone. No honey locust here, they die from fungus rot in the PNW. Lots of that on the other side of the cascades though.

Janka hardness is actually how you want to compare hardwoods though, not density. I will see if I can dig up my old posts comparing typical hardwood species that I cut to typical species in the Midwest.

Yeah I remember that thread. Blue gum? yup that's pretty hard for sure, but how much of it do you actually cut?

Anyway I was making the point that for a very small weight penalty, you gain quite a bit in versatility.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[windthrown]

I have had no issues with the Mtronics and starting I'm kind of stunned that you found it more difficult to fire off. I know some don't like the Mtronics due to they can't tune the carb to their likening but I have not had an issue just strong running saws. And in my opinion the 362C feels stronger than the 361 although I only ran the saw for about four hours.

Well, that's what I thought, that the M-tronics were supposed to start and run great and all. We did timed cuts and direct comparisons betweenn the 3 saws. There is another thread here going about a arborist that burned up two 362CM saws and has them at the shop being repaired under warranty. The dealer said that they have a lot of carbon buildup and that the users did not run them at full throttle enough. Like that would make a difference on an M-tronic saw? *shrug*

 

[sunfish]

I prefer a 'true' 60cc saw. Sold a ported 75cc saw after running a stock 562xp for a year.

 

[SAWMIKAZE]

I have had no issues with the Mtronics and starting I'm kind of stunned that you found it more difficult to fire off. I know some don't like the Mtronics due to they can't tune the carb to their likening but I have not had an issue just strong running saws. And in my opinion the 362C feels stronger than the 361 although I only ran the saw for about four hours.

361s muffler is beyond choked up..run one with a proper muffler mod..it really is night and day on that model.

 

[windthrown]

Yeah I remember that thread. Blue gum? yup that's pretty hard for sure, but how much of it do you actually cut?

A lot actually. I manage a 40 acre wood lot for some friends in Mendocino Co. They have a lot of redwood, tanoak and eucs on their property. I get down there a few times a year with my 361s (I also load up on cheap CA booze!). I also cut a lot of eucs around here for firewood after the polar vortex frost killed them all in Oregon. Great firewood. If you let them dry, they are nearly impossible to cut. Madrone is just as hard as euc though, and I cut as much of that as I can over toward the coast where my mother lives. Best firewood around here. There is also a black locust stand that I have been cutting near me that was planted before they up and moved the entire town back in the 1930s. Nothing left there but the locust stand now. Weedy invasive species, the owner wants them gone. So into my wood stacks they are going.

 

[weedkilla]

Yeah I remember that thread. Blue gum? yup that's pretty hard for sure, but how much of it do you actually cut?

Anyway I was making the point that for a very small weight penalty, you gain quite a bit in versatility.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I just added up some stuff for the year. I used 80l of bar oil, and billed out 950 hours of chainsaw time. Ignoring my own wood collecting I ran a saw at max oil output for less than 100 hours.
Using the smallest saw that will do the job probably costs 20% in cut times.
I MAY have saved 20 hours in 950 by running a heavier saw, or roughly 2%.
That doesn't take into account that I may work longer with a lighter saw, and assumes every cut is at the maximum speed the saw can cut.
I'm going to keep choosing the lightest option, my back thanks me. I may add a 70-80cc saw for 25-28" bar requirements, but at the moment I'm happy with a 50,60,90cc group, as most of what I cut is sub 20", and I still have a bigger saw when required.

 

[windthrown]

80 liters... ~21 gallons? Sounds about right. I flipped to using veg bar oil and have not looked back. Cheaper, and most of it is free. No chain issues. Oops, I spilled some oil and the dog licked it all up. Um... no trip to the vet required. Here dog, have some more French fry oil.

Agreed on the saw weight thing, and time saved using a larger saw. For me it more about the fatigue factor at the end of the day. I can run a 361 all day. I ran the 440 all day and I just wanted to sit in the hot tub for 2 hours and pound beers. The 460 ran me. Damn vibration machine. The 660 is somewhere between the 440 and the 460. I run it for 2 hours max a day.

 

[Andyshine77]

A lot actually. I manage a 40 acre wood lot for some friends in Mendocino Co. They have a lot of redwood, tanoak and eucs on their property. I get down there a few times a year with my 361s (I also load up on cheap CA booze!). I also cut a lot of eucs around here for firewood after the polar vortex frost killed them all in Oregon. Great firewood. If you let them dry, they are nearly impossible to cut. Madrone is just as hard as euc though, and I cut as much of that as I can over toward the coast where my mother lives. Best firewood around here. There is also a black locust stand that I have been cutting near me that was planted before they up and moved the entire town back in the 1930s. Nothing left there but the locust stand now. Weedy invasive species, the owner wants them gone. So into my wood stacks they are going.

The Ash borer has now killed 95% of the Ash trees in the local three state area, and nearly 7.6 billion Ash tress will be lost in the U.S. This year the hillsides were full of gray dead trees.

One thing most seem to forget is how much environment plays into how truly hard a tree will be. The the soil, rain fall and temperature, will greatly effect the trees growth rate, which normally effects hardness.

 

[weedkilla]

80 liters... ~21 gallons? Sounds about right. I flipped to using veg bar oil and have not looked back. Cheaper, and most of it is free. No chain issues. Oops, I spilled some oil and the dog licked it all up. Um... no trip to the vet required. Here dog, have some more French fry oil.

Agreed on the saw weight thing, and time saved using a larger saw. For me it more about the fatigue factor at the end of the day. I can run a 361 all day. I ran the 440 all day and I just wanted to sit in the hot tub for 2 hours and pound beers. The 460 ran me. Damn vibration machine. The 660 is somewhere between the 440 and the 460. I run it for 2 hours max a day.

I've tried a few different bar oils, some of my smaller saws are marginal oilers and I was chewing out bars.
Since I swapped to stihl bar oil (the newer, light variety) I've doubled bar life on a couple of saws. It's as dear as all hell, but it's proving cost effective.
They also happen to be saws that employees use, and I only find out they have a problem when it's too late.... Sigh.

If I swap out a couple of saws to husky 550s, I'll try again with canola oil.

 

[windthrown]

The Ash borer has now killed 95% of the as trees in the local three state area, and nearly 7.6 billion Ash tress will be lost in the U.S. This year the hillsides were full of gray dead trees.

One thing most seem to forget is how much environment plays into how truly hard a tree will be. The the soil, rain fall and temperature, will greatly effect the trees growth rate, which normally effects hardness.

We have firewood import bans on wood from states east of Idaho here for fear of the EAB. I am losing a lot of my pines here to beetles now. There are massive stands of dead pines in the west. Dead snags can be far harder than live ones in many cases, particularly cottonwoods here, as well as Madrone and Eucs. We do not get anywhere near as cold as the Midwest here, but Eucs and Madrones do not tolerate frost well. Nor do California Live oak, which is as dense and hard a tree species as there is in North America. Also Doug firs that grow here west of the Cascades and north of the CA border are stronger, harder and denser than ones that grow south and east of here. South and east DFs get less water, higher temps and they grow slower. So hardness is actually the opposite of expected in that species and we get a premium for DF wood grown here.

 

[windthrown]

I've tried a few different bar oils, some of my smaller saws are marginal oilers and I was chewing out bars.
Since I swapped to stihl bar oil (the newer, light variety) I've doubled bar life on a couple of saws. It's as dear as all hell, but it's proving cost effective.
They also happen to be saws that employees use, and I only find out they have a problem when it's too late.... Sigh.

If I swap out a couple of saws to husky 550s, I'll try again with canola oil.

I crank my oilers all the way up on all my saws, and the ported 361 has a 460 oiler in it. If I was in hot and dusty Oz I would use better oil as well with R model HO oilers. Some of the new Stihl saws have really anemic oil pump outputs to meet EPA standards. I have mostly older saws though with higher oiler output. I have not noticed any problems using the Canola, not even any gunking up that everyone said would happen. Its thinner than 30 wt oil, and goes through the saws faster.

 

[weedkilla]

I crank my oilers all the way up on all my saws, and the ported 361 has a 460 oiler in it. If I was in hot and dusty Oz I would use better oil as well with R model HO oilers. Some of the new Stihl saws have really anemic oil pump outputs to meet EPA standards. I have mostly older saws though with higher oiler output. I have not noticed any problems using the Canola, not even any gunking up that everyone said would happen. Its thinner than 30 wt oil, and goes through the saws faster.

Not disagreeing in any way, it's pretty much a husky 345 and 445 that are the problem, but they earn so much money, and refuse to die. Stihl 150 is probably in the same boat.
I also get shafted $100 for a 16" 325 bar if I buy locally.
This year was quiet, 2013/2014 was nearly 200l of bar oil a year. Canola oil appeals, the husky 562 and 385 are happy with whatever oil. The 550 is a better oiling saw than the 346 in my experience and I'd think it will run fine on canola too, I just haven't tried it.

I'm not so much in hot and dusty Oz, 30-40" average rainfall around here, although 10" down on average this year, driest spring in 100 years.

 

[windthrown]

I also get shafted $100 for a 16" 325 bar if I buy locally.
I'm not so much in hot and dusty Oz, 30-40" average rainfall around here, although 10" down on average this year, driest spring in 100 years.

Ah, South Oz. I keep up with Adelaide, as my cousin has the taco stand there. You are in for a drought, biggest El Nino on record this year. We are getting your rainfall here. Flooding to the north of me, flooding to the south. I am having a normal rain year here (I get 80" average, but Portland is like you at 40" average). Seattle is still under water from last months floods. LA has had flash floods. More trees down here locally in storms than I can carve up. I am really long on firewood here right now.

Bars are cheaper here, even ones made in Oz, and even with the strong US dollar. I recall the cat-hater fuming about that over on the driveller thread. Left Coast (a sponsor here) has a GB bar sale starting at >>>nine dollars<<<! Mostly Chicom bars, but WTF. Cheap as dirt. 16" .325 bar and chain, $27 USD. Oz made Pro Top 16" .325... $18 USD!