Why are we loading 4x a day ??

[Marley5]

I would also like to add this helpful advice.

Never load wood near the back of boiler.....the heat shoots up the chimney.

Loading wood just inside the door works in conjunction with the baffle in these classics and heats the water much more efficiently.

 

[CentaurG2]

I doubt the lines are the problem. Both earth and water are pretty good insulators as long as the water is not moving. We upgraded the underground lines on our boiler when we replaced the unit. It really did not make that much of a difference.

 

[Jeff Lary]

I see a lot of OWB's up here there are 3 close by me and every one of them buy a Tri Axle Wheeler load of wood every year. That's 11-12 cords. Their homes are similar in size to my own likely with similar insulation values. Every one of them are out of wood completely by April.
I have a BK woodstove in my home, I burn about 3-4 cords from October to April. From what I see they burn way more wood than a wood stove or maybe a wood furnace would burn in a similar home. My best friends Dad just went back to a wood stove after using an OWB for the last 20 years. Said he is too old to cut split and stack 15 cords when he used to burn 8 with a wood stove.

 

[NSMaple1]

I doubt the lines are the problem. Both earth and water are pretty good insulators as long as the water is not moving. We upgraded the underground lines on our boiler when we replaced the unit. It really did not make that much of a difference.

Disagree completely. Water is about the worst insulator you can get, and is very good at transferring heat from hot (pipes) to cold (ground). Ground being about the next worse insulator. If you didn't see a difference, you may have been lucky in that your old line sets were solid and dry. Which IMO would be an exception with lines from years ago that weren't made as good as today, being in the damp ground all those years with opportunity to soak up moisture.

 

[Marshy]

I see a lot of OWB's up here there are 3 close by me and every one of them buy a Tri Axle Wheeler load of wood every year. That's 11-12 cords. Their homes are similar in size to my own likely with similar insulation values. Every one of them are out of wood completely by April.
I have a BK woodstove in my home, I burn about 3-4 cords from October to April. From what I see they burn way more wood than a wood stove or maybe a wood furnace would burn in a similar home. My best friends Dad just went back to a wood stove after using an OWB for the last 20 years. Said he is too old to cut split and stack 15 cords when he used to burn 8 with a wood stove.

Tri-axle trucks hold about 6 full cord or about 18 face cord. A tri-axle plus a pup trailer holds about 10 full cord. Tractor trailer truck holds about 12 cord or little more. Anyways, they do burn more wood than a free standing stove.

 

[panolo]

Lines make a huge difference. Especially in wet ground.

 

[CentaurG2]

Disagree completely. Water is about the worst insulator you can get, and is very good at transferring heat from hot (pipes) to cold (ground). Ground being about the next worse insulator. If you didn't see a difference, you may have been lucky in that your old line sets were solid and dry. Which IMO would be an exception with lines from years ago that weren't made as good as today, being in the damp ground all those years with opportunity to soak up moisture.

I did sleep a lot through thermodynamics but I do think I remember something about both dirt and H2o holding onto heat well. To me, once you get the ground warm around the pipe, loss should be minimalized. OP did not indicate a lack of heat inside the house. Fuel consumption/loading the boiler seems to be the problem. To me, the boiler is doing its job. It simply is too small to keep up with the demand.

 

[svk]

I know a guy who heats via OWB and his non insulated lines completely melt the significant northern Minnesota snow above the lines.

OTOH thermopex loses one degree of water temp per hundred feet of run.

 

[CentaurG2]

I have seen several CB installs here with the lines running above the ground. It works just fine as long as you have enough boiler to keep up with the heat loss.

 

[NSMaple1]

I have seen several CB installs here with the lines running above the ground. It works just fine as long as you have enough boiler to keep up with the heat loss.

Right, but you are losing heat. Maybe lots of it.

With a house with a big heat loss also, that heat lost before it even gets to the house can be a killer. Let alone costing a whole lot of extra wood.

That's not even touching on green wood effects.

 

[panolo]

I did sleep a lot through thermodynamics but I do think I remember something about both dirt and H2o holding onto heat well. To me, once you get the ground warm around the pipe, loss should be minimalized. OP did not indicate a lack of heat inside the house. Fuel consumption/loading the boiler seems to be the problem. To me, the boiler is doing its job. It simply is too small to keep up with the demand.

It surely could be too small. However heating the ground and keeping it warm takes a crap ton of energy away. If your boiler water is 15 degrees colder once it reaches your exchanger it is going to affect your heating temp in the home. Pushing colder air through registers takes longer to warm the living area. Same with colder water through radiators. Thus it takes more fuel to get to and maintain desired home temps.

You can run them above ground and it does work but you lose lots of efficiency.

 

[svk]

I have seen several CB installs here with the lines running above the ground. It works just fine as long as you have enough boiler to keep up with the heat loss.

I cannot imagine how that would be a sound method to install, unless it was just a quick install in the fall and they were planning on doing it properly the next summer. First of all there is a massive heat loss, secondly there is ongoing risk of line damage, and third of all it would be unsightly.

 

[CentaurG2]

It surely could be too small. However heating the ground and keeping it warm takes a crap ton of energy away. If your boiler water is 15 degrees colder once it reaches your exchanger it is going to affect your heating temp in the home. Pushing colder air through registers takes longer to warm the living area. Same with colder water through radiators. Thus it takes more fuel to get to and maintain desired home temps.

You can run them above ground and it does work but you lose lots of efficiency.

While I have no data, I actually don’t think it is that much. I think the pipes and ground actually act very similar to a wet suit. As long as the water is not moving, its all good. Sure, the OP is probably losing some heat into the ground but I would bet the bulk of the heat loss, in this case, is going right up the chimney. If that fan draft door is open, it is pumping heat right out that chimney and I bet it runs all night. Boilers are not very efficient. If I had to pay for the wood, I would switch back to a woodstove or do a pellet stove.

 

[CentaurG2]

I cannot imagine how that would be a sound method to install, unless it was just a quick install in the fall and they were planning on doing it properly the next summer. First of all there is a massive heat loss, secondly there is ongoing risk of line damage, and third of all it would be unsightly.

Good old Yankee install! We were early adopters of CB boilers and I think we have been running one for 25+ years. The fellow who sold us our first unit had his lines above ground. They were heavy green rubber lines that looked like industrial washing machine hoses that ran from the boiler to his farm house. Quick, easy and efficient? He seemed happy and the boiler was heating his house. Again, I don’t think the heat loss in the lines (unless they are in contact with moving water) is as great as people think it is.

 

[svk]

Good old Yankee install! We were early adopters of CB boilers and I think we have been running one for 25+ years. The fellow who sold us our first unit had his lines above ground. They were heavy green rubber lines that looked like industrial washing machine hoses that ran from the boiler to his farm house. Quick, easy and efficient? He seemed happy and the boiler was heating his house. Again, I don’t think the heat loss in the lines (unless they are in contact with moving water) is as great as people think it is.

Well that makes a little more sense and if the hoses you mentioned are what i am thinking of the rubber is sort of an insulator (although not as good as modern insulated lines). And running above ground probably sucks away less energy than being below ground, especially in wet ground. Think of it like this, if you leave a pound of burger on the kitchen counter, it takes the air a lot longer to defrost it than say if you put the burger in a large bowl of room temperature water. Still unsightly and prone to damage though!

 

[husqvarna257]

As others have said burning green wood your going to use more, after all you are boiling the moisture out of the wood before it burns. If you are going to use a laser pyrometer to check the temp of the water leaving the boiler to the house you will need to put some non reflective tape on the lines to get a good reading . Gasifacation boilers are more efficient than the older ones, we burn way less wood than a neighbor with a similar size house who runs an older OWB. If the house is not insulated and has lots of drafts your going to use lots of energy to heat it regardless of how it is heated. Try the plastic over the windows as suggested and seal any drafts you can. We ran the Thermopex from our OWB 50 or so feet to the house and regular pex lines inside. Our basement is nice and warm and heats the floor above it nicely, I could have insulated the basement lines to save some heat but never saw the point. For a 2000 sqft home we have burned 4 cord in 4 months heating with base board and hot water.

 

[CentaurG2]

Well that makes a little more sense and if the hoses you mentioned are what i am thinking of the rubber is sort of an insulator (although not as good as modern insulated lines). And running above ground probably sucks away less energy than being below ground, especially in wet ground. Think of it like this, if you leave a pound of burger on the kitchen counter, it takes the air a lot longer to defrost it than say if you put the burger in a large bowl of room temperature water. Still unsightly and prone to damage though!

When we installed our new boiler, we upgraded the underground lines to the proper spray foam insulated dual pex underground line as specked out by CB. It did not make much of a dent in wood consumption and it is still very evident where the line is underground during the winter.

Cold moving water at 34F will thaw your turkey. Just water at 34F won’t do much. Moving air is very good at removing heat. Still air, not so much. What I did learn in thermodynamics class that there is a lot more to heat transfer than people think.

 

[Jeff Lary]

Tri-axle trucks hold about 6 full cord or about 18 face cord. A tri-axle plus a pup trailer holds about 10 full cord. Tractor trailer truck holds about 12 cord or little more. Anyways, they do burn more wood than a free standing stove.

maybe where you live but up here its 11 all day long

 

[cantoo]

Walk outside when it's cold out, stand there for 10 minutes with your gloves on. Then take your gloves off for 10 minutes and see what happens. You can even dip them in a pail of cold water too. Pretty simple. I have Logstor lines to one house and homemade lines to my house. My home made lines are in PVC conduit with pex covered with rubber insulation. Both have very little heat loss but also in gravel no water.
These are pics are not mine these are from google.

 

[NSMaple1]

When we installed our new boiler, we upgraded the underground lines to the proper spray foam insulated dual pex underground line as specked out by CB. It did not make much of a dent in wood consumption and it is still very evident where the line is underground during the winter.

Do you mean you still see snow melt? If so you still have something wrong with your underground. The good stuff gives up no heat, you should only see maybe a degree or two loss between boiler & coming into the house. And certainly no melt up top.

Cold moving water at 34F will thaw your turkey. Just water at 34F won’t do much. Moving air is very good at removing heat. Still air, not so much. What I did learn in thermodynamics class that there is a lot more to heat transfer than people think.

Moisture in the ground will constantly wick heat out of uninsulated pipes. Or insulated pipes with wet insulation. There is just no way around it. And it's a double edged sword. You would be getting cooler supply temps in the house, but also much cooler return temps back to the boiler. Which could then cause lots of issues with creosote buildup in the boiler, if cool enough (below 140) and it goes on long enough.

Having said all of what we have though, without more feedback we still don't know the OPs issues (suspect there is more than one) - looks kind of like a post & run.