Why do Amateurs think they know best???

[slowp]

And some loggers moved here from the flat lands bought a timber sale and a yarder, and started asking me how to rig up the yarder....

I recommended a local guy and ran away...
They survived and got pretty good. They would forget to set the brake? on the line sometimes and it would spool out and get into a tangled mess.

 

[Gologit]

In THIS economy?

Yup, in THIS economy. Getting a little done is better than accomplishing nothing at all.

I know, easy for me to say. :msp_biggrin: But I see it all around, both private and public sectors. They want, insist actually, that we do more with less. I don't see that changing until we reach the point of total stagnation and nothing gets done. Maybe when things will change a little there might be some improvement but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

It's frustrating when you can't throw enough people and machinery at a job to do it efficiently but my definition of efficient and the bean counter's definition are two totally different things. 'Twas ever thus.

 

[roberte]

Knowledgeable supervision and lack of mentoring is cartainly an issue, in just about all trades. I know I thought I was cool when I was 25 and made boss for the first time. What a PITA. It took a while but I had to realize I had to have a better view than 4 feet away and its wasnt what I could do but the crews capabilities or outside agencies and its requirements and thats only one avenue. Anyway, having lived a little, I feel I owe it the trade to try and train my subordinates as time allows. As I look back there was superiors both good and bad that made an impression. As i take myself seriously, I am trying to be one of the good guys and if I pass it on maybe in 20 years they will pass it on.
Having a degree doesnt mean knowing everything. It could mean someone is trainable.
Cakes bake at 350

 

[ropensaddle]

Knowledgeable supervision and lack of mentoring is cartainly an issue, in just about all trades. I know I thought I was cool when I was 25 and made boss for the first time. What a PITA. It took a while but I had to realize I had to have a better view than 4 feet away and its wasnt what I could do but the crews capabilities or outside agencies and its requirements and thats only one avenue. Anyway, having lived a little, I feel I owe it the trade to try and train my subordinates as time allows. As I look back there was superiors both good and bad that made an impression. As i take myself seriously, I am trying to be one of the good guys and if I pass it on maybe in 20 years they will pass it on.
Having a degree doesnt mean knowing everything. It could mean someone is trainable.
Cakes bake at 350

It also can mean the opposite book learning and common sense are very separate entities!

 

[madhatte]

Getting a little done is better than accomplishing nothing at all.

A solid point, and one I need reminded of far more often than I would like.

 

[northmanlogging]

I've been a lead/supervisor at nearly every job I've ever had... In the last 20 years I can count on one hand the kids younger then me that have figured it out and turned out to be pretty good machinists...

More often then not... they quit, or get fired

The really fun stuff is when my 20 year old butt is put in charge of a guy whose 46 and just out of college... he made it 6 weeks.

As for logging... I get lots of people that really want to help really really bad. So they come out can't figure out the chokers, can't or won't run the gyppo yarder (it is pretty scary...:smile2 can't keep a saw out of the dirt... So I end up doing it all myself anyway... most times they never get the chance to fall any trees, if they can't buck or limb I'll be damned if I'm letting em dump one while I'm in the same county...


In other words I'm more then a little concerned for my generation and anyone younger than us...

 

[rmount]

I'm an amateur, I did call in our local pro once for 2 big pine that were too close to the house for me to comfortably tackle. But the only input I offered was to ask if they would like a cold Coke or a cold beer when they were done (I knew I was last job of the day), and would he prefer to be paid in $20s or $50s. We got on fine.

As for Mr. Wedgie in the video with his Christmas tree, well, I just hope he doesn't heat with firewood - be a long time putting up a cord at that rate

 

[HuskStihl]

What I really hate is when I'm on a job and some jerky amateur homeowner won't leave me or my crew alone. Wants to show us his "pro saw," wants to know if our saws are ported and muffler modded, uses falling technique names he clearly doesn't really understand and obviously just heard about on the Internet, wants to know if I personally know Bob or Philbert, and if so can he get an autograph.......
Whoa, I need to stay off the logging form! For a moment there I actually thought I was a pro-faller and forgot I'm a minivan driving, know-nothing 'ologist! I apologize in advance to any AS members I may hire to cut down big, scary trees, then pester with questions, and the revving power of my "pro saw!"
I think I'll go make a video of me revving my saw and head back to the chainsaw forum:msp_biggrin:

 

[Isna]

Had so many of those customers trying to tell me how to do my job. I usually stay calm and shut my ears. I did get angry a few times. Worse ones are those who keep putting themselves in danger. Some want to watch and give you lessons, others just think they can help. In both cases, seems all they want is to have a tree fall on on them. I often have to kick them out of the way: "you have no helmet and therefore have no right to be here..." If you really want to help, get out of the way and make us some coffee...

 

[mitch95100]

Imho- People want to think they know everything becouse they want to be accepted by everyone. Everyone wants to be thought highly of and liked right?
So the easiest option is to try and prove them selves in a field that the person their tryin to impress knows alot about and has expirence doing. That way it makes them think that their "one of them" type thing and their at their level. This has nothing to do with "I dont give a #### what people think" type thing but rather "i just want to be cool with these guys"
And 9/10 of the time it ends up making them look like a dumbass.

Sent from me to you using my fingers

 

[Isna]

I would agree with what you basically say ......however what should be borne in mind is falling trees is dangerous and it all well and good trying to be one of the guys (most fallers I know tend to be very sociable etc but not when they cutting or sizing up) but better to be quiet and wat til job done then be friends than try to be one of the guys and make friends across a hospital ward or worse at a funeral (I know that seems excessive but it can happen very easily)

We do get customers who wait until we're finished and then pay us a drink to talk. Met some really cool people that way. Some amateurs want to learn more and have an interesting point of view. I sometimes got home late just because I stayed to talk with really interesting customers. But, that was once the job was done.

 

[mitch95100]

I would agree with what you basically say ......however what should be borne in mind is falling trees is dangerous and it all well and good trying to be one of the guys (most fallers I know tend to be very sociable etc but not when they cutting or sizing up) but better to be quiet and wat til job done then be friends than try to be one of the guys and make friends across a hospital ward or worse at a funeral (I know that seems excessive but it can happen very easily)

I totally agree with you! Its rated one of the most dangerous professions one could have. And i wasnt nesicarily ignoring that fact but generalizing why people do that. But also keep in mind when they wander out and strike up a conversation they arent thinking about how dangerous it is.

Sent from me to you using my fingers

 

[roberte]

I agree 100% I didn't mean everyone does it maliciously. After you've had the hundredth person wander out it tends to make me grumpy lol (ok grumpier than normal lol) I guess I'm just getting old lol I should be more tolerant.

its better to have a little salt & pepper & honey in your back pocket rather than vinegar.
At least if the bs is coming it may go down easier

 

[roberte]

agreed........I am getting more chilled out.........maybe in another 20yrs I'll be cool lol

everytime im cool i reach for a sweatshirt

 

[mitch95100]

I agree 100% I didn't mean everyone does it maliciously. After you've had the hundredth person wander out it tends to make me grumpy lol (ok grumpier than normal lol) I guess I'm just getting old lol I should be more tolerant.

Haha my tolerence gets short also in those situations.
Good discussion it nice when it dosent have to turn into a brawl!


Sent from me to you using my fingers

 

[mitch95100]

ok ok then I'll reach for a sweatshirt and then I'll be warm and cool:msp_biggrin:

You going hot and cold on us now bud, better settle for lukewarm lol

Sent from me to you using my fingers

 

[slowp]

I wonder if this was somebody trying to "give advice."


Article in Lewis County Sirens.

A 44-year-old Onalaska-area man was airlifted to a Vancouver hospital after he was struck in the back of the head by a falling tree on his property this morning.

For an unknown reason, he had run in front of an evergreen tree being dropped by a local logging outfit, according to Lewis County Fire District 1 Chief Mark Conner.

Firefighters called about 9:35 a.m. to Allen Road, off Middle Fork Road, found the victim unconscious but still breathing, Conner said.

The fire chief described the tree as about eight inches in diameter.

“It looked like he was hit and thrown clear,” he said.

The tree faller attempted to swing the tree away from the man, but unfortunately it had already begun to drop, Conner said.

The man was flown from a private airstrip off Forest-Napavine Road to Southwest Washington Medical Center, according to Conner.

Tags: By Sharyn L. Decker, news reporter

 

[Joe46]

I wonder if this was somebody trying to "give advice."


Article in Lewis County Sirens.

A 44-year-old Onalaska-area man was airlifted to a Vancouver hospital after he was struck in the back of the head by a falling tree on his property this morning.

For an unknown reason, he had run in front of an evergreen tree being dropped by a local logging outfit, according to Lewis County Fire District 1 Chief Mark Conner.

Firefighters called about 9:35 a.m. to Allen Road, off Middle Fork Road, found the victim unconscious but still breathing, Conner said.

The fire chief described the tree as about eight inches in diameter.

“It looked like he was hit and thrown clear,” he said.

The tree faller attempted to swing the tree away from the man, but unfortunately it had already begun to drop, Conner said.

The man was flown from a private airstrip off Forest-Napavine Road to Southwest Washington Medical Center, according to Conner.

Tags: By Sharyn L. Decker, news reporter

Hope he makes it. Some lessons are a whole lot more painful than others.

 

[RandyMac]

the ghost of David Chain pushed him.

 

[tbow388]

My Amateur self

Heck I would have helped you out and notched them also!!! In the wrong direction.:jester: