Why we don't fix stuff

[Bill G]

Doubtful. I've been doing far more dangerous things than chemistry for the last 40 years. So far, none of them have killed me.
Pretty much any endeavor comes with "dead" potential; it's a matter of balancing risk against completion of task.

Yes you told us..............

I guess you've never cooked up any meth, Bill.

They routinely use volatile solvents, but the meth houses don't usually use proper ventilation. Then the solvent gases reach an explosive level inside the house, somebody flips a light switch, and KABOOM! ...no more meth-house, and probably not too many meth-cooks, either.

Here's a funny story: the lab manual for my Organic Chemistry course included the synthesis of methamphetamine. As I recall, it was pretty simple, but required picric acid as a starting ingredient, long since regulated by the government.

As I said before I have never nor will ever cook Meth so I trust your expertise. That is in your wheelhouse

 

[Bill G]

Yeah, I don't like either one of you.

At least you are clear, concise, and to the point. Not much of that round dese parts.

 

[Bill G]

Only welders with enough torch experience will understand this gif.

I hope one or two will explain it then.

 

[Bill G]

Nope, but I don't often work with aluminum, either. I'll confess, that looks pretty easy in the video.

I found it to be rather challenging with my MIG. It was always a juggling act to balance bubbling wire aluminum wire onto the top or pouring it into the aluminum and creating giant bubbles beneath where I was welding. Or just having altogether too much heat and having the whole thing go blob onto the ground. Getting aluminum repair areas clean enough for the MIG didn't seem to work for me.

What MIG machine are you running?

 

[ZeroJunk]

Are you trying to harvest some especially spicy insults?

I'm quite talented at it, I just don't get to practice much.

You might not like that. I am not smart , but I am relentless. Your only way out would be to ban me.

 

[Bill G]

I don't think many here understand the 1/7th, 1/10 rule for tank withdrawal and tank size for Acetylene. The talk of manifolding 10 Acetylene torches is also asinine. The problem is you still have the problem of violating the 1/7th, 1/10 rule for tank withdrawal and manifold psi should not exceed over 15 psi and you would have to have a 2 stage regulator at each tap. This would limit use to just a few torches at a time.
If the gas use rate is too high, the gas carries acetone with it into the regulator, lines and torch and it removes it from the cylinder, leaving voids. Acetylene is unstable when under pressure and when not dissolved in the acetone, the loss creates a dangerous condition.

Of course it is but few if any even picked up on that. I brought it up to demonstrate the dangers of acetylene in CERTAIN situations. We ran six WELDING units on a single set of tanks with a regulator at each torch.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Of course it is but few if any even picked up on that. I brought it up to demonstrate the dangers of acetylene in CERTAIN situations. We ran six WELDING units on a single set of tanks with a regulator at each torch.

In the manual it gives a formula I suppose for how much acetylene you could remove out of a given size tank over a period of time before it becomes dangerous. I saw no reason to argue with the ones who wrote the manual.

 

[Franny K]

I don't think many here understand the 1/7th, 1/10 rule for tank withdrawal and tank size for Acetylene. The talk of manifolding 10 Acetylene torches is also asinine. The problem is you still have the problem of violating the 1/7th, 1/10 rule for tank withdrawal and manifold psi should not exceed over 15 psi and you would have to have a 2 stage regulator at each tap. This would limit use to just a few torches at a time.
If the gas use rate is too high, the gas carries acetone with it into the regulator, lines and torch and it removes it from the cylinder, leaving voids. Acetylene is unstable when under pressure and when not dissolved in the acetone, the loss creates a dangerous condition.

There is a lot to unpack in the above quote. I saw an acetlene manifold one time, think it was kind of outside the building. There were I am guessing brass pipe things with a bulge perhaps 1/3 the size of a campels soup can between the cylinder and the manifold, then the manifold had a big regulator before going into the piping to the building. Copperl is supposed to be bad if I recall. The regulators don't go over 15 psi but of course on a normal set up with one tank and one regulator it is at tank pressure (perhaps as much as 300psi for a full cylinder in the summer heat) exists in between the regulator insides and the cylinder. Somehow if the passage is small enough this is ok, being overl 15 psi.

There is a book the oxy acetylene handbook the older the edition you can get the better imo. It has a section about welding aluminum. takes skill and set up it is only like 50 degrees in the mushy state then it collapses. It actually is more malleable weld than electric arc, the finished weld.

 

[Bill G]

In the manual it gives a formula I suppose for how much acetylene you could remove out of a given size tank over a period of time before it becomes dangerous. I saw no reason to argue with the ones who wrote the manual.

Acetylene is very unstable when used improperly such as pulling it off too fast (too many torches/tank) or laying a cylinder down. Some will never believe it though

 

[pdqdl]

so yer admitting to not working with aluminum much, while arguing with a guy that has?


noted

Not exactly. I just avoid it like the plague, I don't have a TIG machine, and I am not a professional welder.
If my equipment needs a weld, I get it done in-house. Usually me.

I find it remarkable that you are not arguing the facts with me about the aluminum welding rod's melting point. Instead, you make snide comments about my qualifications. Does this quote sound familiar?

"It is telling that rather then defend one's own position, folks will attack someone personally." —Northmanlogging​

I did a lot more aluminum welding in the past, when I was running a small engine repair shop. I had 5 full time mechanics, and we were doing all the regional service for the JC Penny company and Builders Square. So yeah, I've dipped into the aluminum welding pond quite a few times in the past.



So nobody has responded to the pic I posted of a gorilla with a machine gun? It has to do with ATpro's comments on exceeding tank size.

I'll clarify that image then: When you exceed an acetylene tank's capacity to provide gas, a high capacity torch head like a rosebud will begin "machine gunning". Rather than just one bang with the torch going out, the rosebud will keep re-igniting explosively inside the torch handle. Very loud, the torch handle gets real hot real fast, and it is pretty scary, too. While this is happening, flames continue to shoot out the torch tip much like the image I posted.

Many years ago, I was obliged to either buy a smaller rosebud tip or a bigger tank. I went for the smaller tip.

EDIT: I attached a document that explains this rather nicely.

 

[Franny K]

Not exactly. I just avoid it like the plague, I don't have a TIG machine, and I am not a professional welder.
If my equipment needs a weld, I get it done.

I did a lot more aluminum welding in the past, when I was running a small engine repair shop. I had 5 full time mechanics, and we were doing all the regional service for the JC Penny company and Builders Square. So yeah, I've dipped into the aluminum welding pond quite a few times in the past.



So nobody has responded to the gorilla with a machine gun? It has to do with ATpro's comments on exceeding tank size.

That sounds like welding cast aluminum. That stuff can have lots of impurities did you, your help, bake the parts for an hour before welding?

I tried to figure out the gorilla it sort of looked like a toy lighter for a gun. I think if you over draw an acetylene tank the acetone the acetylene is dissolved in comes into the regulator.

 

[pdqdl]

If you over-draw the tank, you get delivery failure at the rosebud tip. There is not a balanced mixture of oxygen and acetylene on the inside of the torch. A lean-burn condition exists, and then the flame front proceeds faster than the expansion rate of the mixed gasses as they come out of the tiny holes in the rosebud tip. The flame gets inside the torch, an explosion occurs, then it re-ignites as gas fills the handle again.

If you do much heating with a rosebud tip, then you almost certainly have had it happen. It's also a problem when the rosebud tip gets really hot from radiated heat off the item being heated. Either you back away from the glowing steel a bit, or your torch starts banging.

This seldom happens with welding or cutting tips. They pop once, and go out.

 

[pdqdl]

That sounds like welding cast aluminum. That stuff can have lots of impurities did you, your help, bake the parts for an hour before welding?

It's pretty hard to bake a lawnmower deck for an hour. No, we didn't have any facility for baking, much less having one big enough for a lawnboy. Besides, that would require a complete disassembly of the machine.

Yes, impurities and cleaning the surfaces to be welded were a big problem for us. It didn't help that aluminum wire just doesn't feed as well down my MIG torch as steel wire does. It would jump and jam constantly.

 

[Franny K]

There are wire feeders with two pusher rollers, sets of pusher rollers or spool gun.

the mower deck, I ran over my self propeled push mower years ago and welded on the deck after some bending.

 

[pdqdl]

I considered a spool gun to be a better solution for my MIG. Never bought one, though.

 

[ATpro]

es, impurities and cleaning the surfaces to be welded were a big problem for us. It didn't help that aluminum wire just doesn't feed as well down my MIG torch as steel does. It would jump and jam constantly.

The problem with feeding aluminum wire is you have to use the proper gun liner, I use a Teflon Conduit Liner, DC electrode positive with 5356 .030 aluminum wire for running aluminum wire through a liner . In my spool gun I could run 4043 .030 aluminum wire. You also have to run 100% argon. You can use Acetone or Stainless Steel Brush to remove the oxidation layer that all aluminum forms over time.

Here is a vid that covers the basics well.

 

[northmanlogging]

Not exactly. I just avoid it like the plague, I don't have a TIG machine, and I am not a professional welder.
If my equipment needs a weld, I get it done in-house. Usually me.

I find it remarkable that you are not arguing the facts with me about the aluminum welding rod's melting point. Instead, you make snide comments about my qualifications. Does this quote sound familiar?

"It is telling that rather then defend one's own position, folks will attack someone personally." —Northmanlogging​

I did a lot more aluminum welding in the past, when I was running a small engine repair shop. I had 5 full time mechanics, and we were doing all the regional service for the JC Penny company and Builders Square. So yeah, I've dipped into the aluminum welding pond quite a few times in the past.



So nobody has responded to the pic I posted of a gorilla with a machine gun? It has to do with ATpro's comments on exceeding tank size.

I'll clarify that image then: When you exceed an acetylene tank's capacity to provide gas, a high capacity torch head like a rosebud will begin "machine gunning". Rather than just one bang with the torch going out, the rosebud with keep re-igniting explosively inside the torch handle. Very loud, the torch handle gets real hot real fast, and it is pretty scary, too. While this is happening, flames continue to shoot out the torch tip much like the image I posted.

Many years ago, I was obliged to either buy a smaller rosebud tip or a bigger tank. I went for the

you stated not having much exp with aluminum, not me

you've never welded aluminum with oa, i have,

im not attacking you, just clarifying your position.

yes al "brazing" rod is a thing, but so is oa aluminum welding, so maybe stop trying to be an authority on something you dont know S about

 

[ATpro]

If you over-draw the tank, you get delivery failure at the rosebud tip.

Yep, I knew what the pic was about.
The sputtering tip is because of Acetone being sucked into the line and disrupting gas flow. I used Tig most of the time because it gave a much stronger weld quality. Also 5356 wire and filler rod is good for most all aluminum-magnesium type base metal used in things like ship gun mounts, diesel engine bases, truck frames, ship structures, architectural structures, cargo tanks and such.

 

[Bill G]

Interesting how Mike's simple thread turned into a pissing match over welding.

Hey @rupedoggy (Mike) hope things are going good for you

 

[Franny K]

Interesting how Mike's simple thread turned into a pissing match over welding.

Hey @rupedoggy (Mike) hope things are going good for you

You are 100% correct sir. I am sure meth making is another one of the many areas you are an expert in and I do not care to learn anything about it. Carry on, carry on