Wood stove insert draft problems - what a pain!

[chuckwood]

Anybody have any success with the Vacu-Stack chimney caps that are supposed to help solve downdraft problems created by airflow over adjacent structures or trees?

Some years ago, I installed a SS liner for my brother's wood burner. We had the same problem, not enough clearance for an insulated liner. Breaking out all the ceramic clay flue liner sounded like a nightmare, so after some research, I found that you can insulate a SS liner with vermiculite. I'd never worked with the stuff, but it was cheap, came in huge bags, and all you gotta do is get your liner installed, seal/plug up the chimney at the base, and dump the vermiculite in from the top of the chimney. I felt really smart as I planned the vermiculite install, packing in fiberglass insulation very tightly at the base to seal everything so I could pour in the vermiculite from the top of the chimney. After pouring the stuff in, I came down and went in the house to check my job. I was really upset to find a huge pile of vermiculite all over the living room floor. Cleaning that stuff up and re-bagging it was a nightmare, even with a shop vac. Back to square one, the stuff will flow like water through the tiniest cracks. The solution was simple, I made a loose mix of masonry cement and vermiculite and poured that down the chimney, to where it piled up at the base at an estimated 3 feet or so, hoping that the cement wouldn't spill out like the vermiculite did. Success! I made a tight, sound plug. The next day I poured in vermiculite again all the way up to the top of the chimney with no leaks at the bottom.

 

[Marshy]

I have a suggestion for you but if it works its just a bandaid. Go to your local farm and tractor supply store and buy a heating lamp and put it in your firebox over night. Light a piece of new paper and do a smoke check to see if you have a draft up the chimney. If not then the only thing you could try is burning wood 24/7 to keep the draft.

 

[zogger]

We had another thread here before, similar issue. turned out the pro installers had left something in the new liner, it was mostly plugged up, it never would have worked..

but..not sure this case, just on the face of it, too short, need some more height.

 

[bigbadbob]

Was working at a place this fall had the same problem, ended up the liner had separated from the stove/insert.
Was had to see.
You have probably checked that already,,,
BBB

 

[TheLazyBFarm]

Your asking people on the internet when you should be asking the company who installed the insulated stainless steel liner.
You seem surprised that cold air is falling down your chimney. You need to get the chimney hot before starts drawing properly.

I'd have those people over in a heartbeat and try to start a fire while they're there.

When I had my Englander 30-NC installed last Monday, the installers insisted on me starting a fire before they left, they wanted to make sure everything worked great. It does and we love our stove.

OP, call your installer and get him to inspect their work. In fact, I'd ask for a supervisor to come with the workers: you paid good money for that stove and stove pipe and it should have been installed so that it worked correctly, regardless of your houses previous construction issues.

Good luck!

 

[user 122190]

We had another thread here before, similar issue. turned out the pro installers had left something in the new liner, it was mostly plugged up, it never would have worked..

but..not sure this case, just on the face of it, too short, need some more height.

That's what I've been thinking. Something left in the flue.

 

[fatboycowen]

Some day's I have a similar issue getting a fire started. I installed this little blower in the flue before it connects to the chimney, and run it for about 5 minutes when lighting a fire. After that the stove drafts fine by itself and I can turn it off.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXFP1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My research found this, but i don't think it will work for me, as i have a flush mounted insert. No stove pipe is visible at all.

 

[fatboycowen]

I'll post up some photos when i get a chance. The stove installers called yesterday and want to help. I've been so busy, i haven't called them back. Another busy day ahead....
Thanks for all the help so far. I have a feeling the height may be the issue. Hopefully i can find an elegant solution.

 

[brenndatomu]

Thanks for all the help so far. I have a feeling the height may be the issue. Hopefully i can find an elegant solution.

If you want to test this theory just get a section of regular ole stove pipe, stick that on top (temporarily of course)
Google chimney extender images, tons come up. The two that came to mind are a top plate that allows you to run a section or two of class A pipe to gain height. Also, the more ornamental clay extenders will allow you to gain a couple feet.

 

[steved]

Tried that. Smoke literally comes out of the stove vents until the draft starts.

Then you have issues that need the install company to address...

Everything you stated indicates a blockage somewhere impeding the draft. These guys gave you a lot of good ideas, the three that hit me as first checks is the chimney cap, relationship of the chimney to the rest of the house, and a blockage.

My folks fight the first two...the cap was too restrictive and later they found the wind whipping over the house actually pushed air down thw chimney...we solved the first by pulling the cap and the latter by extending chimney another three blocks.

The fact the PO had the same issue, before you messed with it; indicates wind issue.

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[steved]

Your asking people on the internet when you should be asking the company who installed the insulated stainless steel liner.
You seem surprised that cold air is falling down your chimney. You need to get the chimney hot before starts drawing properly.

BS. I can light mine and it drafts immediately...no smoke in the house, door wide open.

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[Whitespider]

BOCA CODE for the year the stove and chimney were installed and or modified.

BOCA code is voluntary, not mandatory... although it has been adopted over most of the US, it's application varies. Depending on state or local code, it may, or may not apply to the year the wood stove is installed, or even to a chimney modification (depending)... it may only apply to new construction.

I have a feeling the height may be the issue.

I tend to agree with you. Blockage would not cause a down draft (which is what you seem to be describing)... but a chimney below the highest point of the house can. At the same time, so can a wind swirling around the house, trees, and whatnot... with is also often remedied by height. Likely you'll end up extending the chimney... and possibly it will need to be extended past the highest point of the other part of the house before it will be 100% (been there, done that, own the t-shirt).

Good luck.
*

 

[blades]

There are also directional caps, those that keep the exhaust stream pointed down wind which might be of help.

 

[fatboycowen]

Attached are some photos for reference.

 

[fatboycowen]

The chimney is 17'-6" from the deck to top of brick.

 

[Marshy]

And you said you have an oil boiler that has it's own flue in the chimney right next to the wood stove flue? I surmise the one with the cap is your wood stove... Did you notice if the boiler was/wasn't firing while you were trying to light a fire?

I think you have some good solid advice so far. If you have a ladder and can reach the cap I would consider adding one or two sections of single wall pipe temporarily just to see if it changes the draft behavior. Also, a small flashlight on a rope to send down the liner to make sure nothing is abnormal wouldn't hurt. I think your on the right path with gettin the vendor back to check it out... I guess it depends on how much you want to dicker with it before they come back...

 

[fatboycowen]

Nope. That is the ONLY flue in the chimney. In the pic, you can see the small brick chimney in the main box of the house (upper roof). That is the oil boiler. I have tried to start the fire without the boiler on, several times. It doesn't seem to make much difference. I also get my wife to shut down the drier, if it's on, and make sure none of the bathroom vent fans are on.

I'll see if i can get up there and investigate. I'm pretty hands on, and if i wasn't so busy, I'd have been up there already to inspect the work, even if it worked perfectly.

The liner in the chimney is the flexible stainless. How do i connect a regular stove pipe to it? Do i need a coupler of some kind? Do i need to brace it?

 

[WoodTick007]

BOCA code is voluntary, not mandatory... although it has been adopted over most of the US, it's application varies. Depending on state or local code, it may, or may not apply to the year the wood stove is installed, or even to a chimney modification (depending)... it may only apply to new construction.


I tend to agree with you. Blockage would not cause a down draft (which is what you seem to be describing)... but a chimney below the highest point of the house can. At the same time, so can a wind swirling around the house, trees, and whatnot... with is also often remedied by height. Likely you'll end up extending the chimney... and possibly it will need to be extended past the highest point of the other part of the house before it will be 100% (been there, done that, own the t-shirt).

Good luck.
*

The code I am speaking about has nothing to do with the wood stove but the termination of a chimney. Which is 2ft higher than 10ft over from the termination point.

 

[Marshy]

Nope. That is the ONLY flue in the chimney. In the pic, you can see the small brick chimney in the main box of the house (upper roof). That is the oil boiler. I have tried to start the fire without the boiler on, several times. It doesn't seem to make much difference. I also get my wife to shut down the drier, if it's on, and make sure none of the bathroom vent fans are on.

I'll see if i can get up there and investigate. I'm pretty hands on, and if i wasn't so busy, I'd have been up there already to inspect the work, even if it worked perfectly.

The liner in the chimney is the flexible stainless. How do i connect a regular stove pipe to it? Do i need a coupler of some kind? Do i need to brace it?

I'm not familiar enough with those liners to be of much help on how you could connect a temporary single wall pipe, sorry. Maybe the single wall pipe is ply and play IDK.

 

[mn woodcutter]

BS. I can light mine and it drafts immediately...no smoke in the house, door wide open.

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That's no BS. My stove is on an outside wall in the lower level with over 20' of class A stainless chimney. The chimney extends 36" above the highest peak with zero obstructions on a hill. My house is extremely tight and well insulated and my stove draws it's combustion air from a separate vent running outside. After some trial and error I figured out that I need a hot fire really quick to get the draft working otherwise I have a living room full of smoke. It also helps to crack a window on the other side of the house. So, just because you have a strong draft doesn't mean every setup and every situation is just like yours. Many stoves and fireplaces I have used over the years have a required a technique to start.