Cordless Chainsaws and Outdoor Power Equipment

[Chainsaw10]

....yeah it may have had a really dull chain.

 

[Philbert]

. . . it because it was the best one I ran at the convention and 80v makes a big difference from what I saw.

Thanks Michael. As far as I know, you are the only here that has tried it to date, so I appreciate your comments and impressions. Don't want anyone to have to defend any brand or model - I was just blown away that there are 80 volt battery tools out there! Some of these battery saws will appeal on price point, some on performance, some on features, etc. It would be interesting to try their 40 and 80 volt saws side-by-side, with identical chains, to see what type of noticeable difference the increased voltage makes, in addition to comparing it to other brands and models. Did you have that opportunity at GIE?

Philbert

 

[zemmo]

In a perfect world, we'd have a genuine electrical engineer, specializing in DC motors and battery tech, on this forum to comment. In the absence of such, it's impossible to understand some of these issues: How much is the increase in voltage a design improvement, or just a fad, like the past obsession with pixel #s in digital camera sensors? How is thermal management affected? And so on. . .

Both brushless motor and battery tech are improving by leaps and bounds, and batteries seem poised to get significantly cheaper. Tesla, who use around 7000 18650 cells in their 60 kWh battery pack, is intent on dramatically reducing the price with the new factory in Nevada, in which Panasonic is also involved. They envision producing as many cells as the rest of the world currently produces, by 2020. "Learn to face the strange ch-ch-changes"

This link references the old Roadster battery; the current S model batteries are configured into what's essentially a slab, which lies under the body (it's actually functionally part of the chassis).
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/battery

And the factory:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/a...actory-for-mass-market-electric-car.html?_r=0

These cordless tools are now like computers, you know when you buy one that there will be a much better one next year. At least that's my excuse for not yet buying one Maybe the brushless Oregon in the spring: I really like the idea of the self-sharpener in this kind of saw.

 

[Philbert]

Echo Joins theClub!

Fubar posted this in another thread:


Looks like a promising product. But, surprisingly, 'only available at Home Depot'!?

$299 with 4.0AHr battery and charger.

If I was an Echo dealer I would be seriously P.O.'d. HD already has Ryobi, EGO, and Makita battery powered chainsaws. Do they expect Echo dealers to service and do warranty repairs, but not sell them?

http://www.echocordless.com/products/chain-saw/

Philbert

 

[7sleeper]

What I am wondering about is the "tool storage"? Do you have a screwdriver with a lighbulb inside in there...

edit: just googled and found out it's called electrician or tester screwdriver, learn something new everyday!

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[Philbert]

What I am wondering about is the "tool storage"?

The Owner's Manual is available on-line for more information: http://manuals.echocordless.com/sys.../CCS-58V_107174001_276_trilingual_03.pdf?2014

It shows a recess for storing the scrench underneath the hand guard. OK if it holds it securely. It is interesting that they did not go with a 'tool-less' chain tensioner, like many of the other battery saws. That seems to be a common and popular feature for this market segment.



I like Echo saws, and the specs on this one look good. Does not appear to be in any stores near me - only from HD.com.

Philbert

 

[Fubar]

i have been watching the cordless electric saws for quite some time , the first of battery powered anythings was pretty weak and the battery's went flat quick , voltage means power , 58 volts is getting up into the real saw power realm , the lithium ion battery is lighter , has more capacity and delivers full amp output until it is dead , echo dose not list the run time on a charge , cause of course it varies due to load , duration and temp , but i would like to have one and a extra battery to test out cause a friend of mine has a saw mill and i go over there and saw slabs " cedar , oak , popular .pine ect " for fire wood , and i would just be tickled if i could cut a truck load on two batteries , cause i have some health problems and unlike some i don't enjoy having toxic fumes spewed in my face , its hard enough work without smothering as well, LOL ,battery technology has gotten so good now, i plan to replace all my lawn equipment with cordless as it wears out .

 

[7sleeper]

@Fubar,

in the mean time you can use premix instead of regular gas and oil mix. The fumes are supposed to be much less irretative.

@Philbert ,

I had already assumed that it was their intention to go the same route as Mc Culloch on their current line of saws inserting the scrench into the rear end grip. Wonder if anyone will try to claim royalties.... But of course a scrench is only needed on a gas powered saw... this is of course only a nutfastenerwithinteractivechainadjusteradjuster...



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[Philbert]

i have been watching the cordless electric saws for quite some time , . . . , 58 volts is getting up into the real saw power realm . . . i would like to have one and a extra battery to test . . .

There were earlier versions of battery powered chainsaws in the 12 to 18 volt range. I consider these 36 - 58 volt saws, with Lithium-ion batteries, and 4.0 Amp hour ratings, to be in a separate class. And the brushless motor versions of these, I consider to be the 'second generation' of this class. I have used my Oregon 40V for 3+ years now, and have been impressed with it (see my comments in those referenced threads). Looking forward to the next version, due out in the next few months - promises increased power and chain speed.

I know that Home Depot rents the Makita, 36V, top handled saw, if you just want to take one for a test spin. Locally, they only supply you with one battery, but maybe you could work something out. Some of the battery chargers can be run off of a suitable inverter in your truck, so you can swap out, and recharge while working with the other.

Philbert

 

[Fubar]

@7sleeper., i mainly just think the cordless electrics are cool as hell , get me a couple of solar panels to recharge the batteries , use filtered old french fry oil for the bar oil , that's about as green as it gets .

 

[Fubar]

There were earlier versions of battery powered chainsaws in the 12 to 18 volt range. I consider these 36 - 58 volt saws, with Lithium-ion batteries, and 4.0 Amp hour ratings, to be in a separate class. And the brushless motor versions of these, I consider to be the 'second generation' of this class. I have used my Oregon 40V for 3+ years now, and have been impressed with it (see my comments in those referenced threads). Looking forward to the next version, due out in the next few months - promises increased power and chain speed.

I know that Home Depot rents the Makita, 36V, top handled saw, if you just want to take one for a test spin. Locally, they only supply you with one battery, but maybe you could work something out. Some of the battery chargers can be run off of a suitable inverter in your truck, so you can swap out, and recharge while working with the other.

Philbert

heck with the money a man could save in gas in 3+ years time, two saws and two extra batteries would pay for themselves , i might try a Makita just so i can say i did, and who knows i might buy the used one if i can get it cheap enough , i like the looks of big blue corded Makita you have , Makita made the best cordless drills i had a couple that finally wore out after 20 years of use , but i really like Echo products too ,and they have a great warranty .

 

[Treespotter]

Echo Joins theClub!

Fubar posted this in another thread:
View attachment 412817

Looks like a promising product. But, surprisingly, 'only available at Home Depot'!?

$299 with 4.0AHr battery and charger...

Now we're talking!
After a Makita 14 volts with a 4.5 inch bar, a Dolmar 18 volts with a 10 inch bar an d now a serious Husqvarna 36 volts with a 11.5 inch bar I can finally get a serious back handle.

But Philbert, I don't think the 4 amps battery is included in the $299.00 deal. The deal is including a 2 amps battery and o yes, we also sell a 4 amps version.

I really would love to see a bucking competition between the Echo CCS 58V and the Husqvarna 536 LiXP.

 

[Treespotter]

They actually do say they sell it for 299 with the 4 amps battery. [emoji106]

 

[zogger]

@7sleeper., i mainly just think the cordless electrics are cool as hell , get me a couple of solar panels to recharge the batteries , use filtered old french fry oil for the bar oil , that's about as green as it gets .

I would think you only need one decent solar panel for your battery saw gas station. You'll need a deep cycle 12 volt storage battery, a charge controller, then a 12 vdc to Ac inverter to plug in the factory charger.

I already had that stuff when I got my oregon, so I'm covered for societal collapse cutting, at least for a long time

What I don't like is I can't get a new brushless motor, it won't fit the old style, I already called them up and asked

Oh, they use so little bar oil, go ahead and splurge and get clean new oil, just stockpile on sale.

The oregon comes with the powersharp chain, but it will run normal 3/8ths low profile.

I'll get a new batt saw when they finally have one that will run full 3/8ths with maybe a 20 inch bar, but dang, any of the newer ones today are all looking good.

 

[7sleeper]

@7sleeper., i mainly just think the cordless electrics are cool as hell , get me a couple of solar panels to recharge the batteries , use filtered old french fry oil for the bar oil , that's about as green as it gets .

I understand your argument fully, the only question remains is how much is the solar panel array and other stuff you need for creating the electricity needed? I believe most people could run a conventional gas saw for a VERY long time!

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[Philbert]

They actually do say they sell it for 299 with the 4 amps battery. [emoji106]

The Echo website was not clear, and the Home Depot one was worse! I could not get any information on the cost of a second 4.0 amp battery, or the cost of a bare tool that the Echo site mentioned. Pretty poor for the 'exclusive' distributor. I sent comments to both of them.

Also note that all of the product reviews on the home depot website were from 'seeded reviewers' - people who received the tools for free in exchange for their review, and who have used the tool for 30 days or less. I am not accusing any of these reviewers of intentional bias, but they may still be in the 'honeymoon phase' of their new saw, so take those reviews 'with a grain of salt'.

It looks like a good product, and I have confidence in Echo saws. Hopefully we will get some A.S. members using these saws and get some additional feedback from more extended use.

Philbert

 

[zogger]

I understand your argument fully, the only question remains is how much is the solar panel array and other stuff you need for creating the electricity needed? I believe most people could run a conventional gas saw for a VERY long time!

7

Same rig could be used for a lot of other stuff, too. When we first were living in the smaller camper, that's all I had for juice unless I ran the v-8 engine, a single panel and some gear. Kept us in gear like TV, light, radio, computer, etc just fine.

When we upgraded to a two panel system and a lot more batteries in the larger camper (4-6 volt golf cart batts), I installed the single panel system on a hand truck, so it was real portable, worked great for topping off vehicle batteries when not used much, etc. Heck, you could run a corded electric saw from one, at least for awhile. Think how long a trolling motor lasts with a single deep discharge battery charged up. Today, charge the laptop during power outtages, cellphone, whatever.

Free power just for getting the infrastructure is not too shabby. It works, upmteen thousands of preppers have whole house or near whole house systems today, typically with roughly around a seven year payback over general average electric grid rates. Or say to go camping with sometimes, plenty of uses outside of charging battery saw batts. This stuff is way cheaper than it was ten/fifteen years ago, cheaper and better.

If gas engine tech was advancing as fast as electronics and solar and modern batteries, you could buy a 100MPG truck for maybe ten grand new, something like that anyway. Heck, when solar first came out, it was ten grand a small panel, now you can get a good panel for a hunnert bucks.

I remember when the first battery drills came out, I paid a scosh over 200 for one, nowadays, jeez, they got some nice ones that seriously outperform those older models, batts last much longer, more powerful, etc. Even the cheapest ones now are much better than the older more expensive ones.

 

[zogger]

The Echo website was not clear, and the Home Depot one was worse! I could not get any information on the cost of a second 4.0 amp battery, or the cost of a bare tool that the Echo site mentioned. Pretty poor for the 'exclusive' distributor. I sent comments to both of them.

Also note that all of the product reviews on the home depot website were from 'seeded reviewers' - people who received the tools for free in exchange for their review, and who have used the tool for 30 days or less. I am not accusing any of these reviewers of intentional bias, but they may still be in the 'honeymoon phase' of their new saw, so take those reviews 'with a grain of salt'.

It looks like a good product, and I have confidence in Echo saws. Hopefully we will get some A.S. members using these saws and get some additional feedback from more extended use.

Philbert

Hope so.

 

[Franny K]

Cycle Performance 80% of initial capacity at 300 cycles
At 600 cycles that is 60% and where Husqvarna rates the battery life at, at least what I read. Don't get the idea it is going to be less expensive one can fill up a small saw a lot of times for the cost of one battery. Chances their cost analysis is using canned quarts of pre mix for $5 or more each.

Could someone quote from a manual about charging these things off an inverter and battery. I asked that question over in the Bailey's section and the guy didn't recommend it. All inverters may not be the same.

 

[Philbert]

Could someone quote from a manual about charging these things off an inverter and battery. I asked that question over in the Bailey's section and the guy didn't recommend it. All inverters may not be the same.

Source: Oregon PowerNow FAQs
"Can I charge my OREGON battery packs using a 12V system with a DC to AC inverter?

There are options available on the market today. In order to ensure you do not damage your OREGON® product, we recommend only using a DC to AC inverter that meets the following specifications:
Input Voltage Range: 10.5 - 15 VDC**
Minimum Output Power: 260 watts
Surge Power: >300 watts
AC Output Frequency: 50–60 Hz
AC Output Voltage Range: >90 <130 VAC
Output Waveform: Pure/True Sine-Wave
Efficiency: >80%
GFCI Output: Preferred
** Vehicles and Inverters designed for 24 volts or higher are OK as long as the other minimum requirements are met."

I am not sure what this 'pure sine wave' output means, but they have included that phrase consistently for more than 3 years.

Philbert