Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[Courage]

Hey guys, been thinking about this lately, what do y'all run in your equipment? I normally run Super Tech full synthetic, or if they're sold out/I forgot to buy some, I run Lucas semi synthetic. I'm wondering if I should switch to a mow name brand oil. Not sure if it matters, but my 2 stroke equipment consists of an Echo 2620 and PB9010T, a Shihl MS260 and Fs55, and a Redmax BCZ260T.
I'm most interested in Echo Red Armor, because of it being red (seems like an added safety for when your tired or distracted) but it's also the most expensive. Also on the table is Redmax full synthetic, Amsoil Saber, VP Racing full synthetic, or more Lucas semi synthetic (it's only semi synthetic, bit it is the cheapest). I'm open to any other brands too.
Thanks in advance!
Courage

 

[montana59]

Bel Ray been using it since 70’s chainsaw an motorcycle

 

[AnthemBassMan]

I’m a fan of both Amsoil Saber and Echo Red Armor. I usually go with Saber because I can get it for $18 a quart after tax, while a pint of Red Armor is only some change less. So double the oil for basically the same price. I always run my mix at 40:1 with 90 octane ethanol free gas.

L8R,
Matt

 

[Courage]

Sorry for my delayed reply! Been a crazy couple of weeks.
Thanks for sharing what you all use.
@AnthemBassMan do you run the saber 40:1?

 

[AnthemBassMan]

Sorry for my delayed reply! Been a crazy couple of weeks.
Thanks for sharing what you all use.
@AnthemBassMan do you run the saber 40:1?

Yes I do. 3.2oz of oil for every gallon. I run the same mix in my old Lawn-Boys through my modern 2 cycle equipment.

L8R,
Matt

 

[SCMtnHaul]

Sometimes I run Saber but mostly the Stihl synthetic. My only complaint with the Stihl synthetic is that it doesn't have an obvious color like blue or red. I used to mix at 64:1 but while that is still plenty of oil in the mix it does cut your buffer, so to speak, and an unnoticed air leak could create a lean condition to the point of damage. These days I mix everything at 50:1 and have never had a problem, and I'm still waiting for my first engine failure despite may hours of use. I know a guy who always mixes Saber at 100:1 and his equipment doesn't fail but you won't catch me doing that. But neither will I mix less than 50:1, especially if I'm weed-whacking for many hours and just marinating in a 2-stroke exhaust cloud.

 

[AnthemBassMan]

Sometimes I run Saber but mostly the Stihl synthetic. My only complaint with the Stihl synthetic is that it doesn't have an obvious color like blue or red. I used to mix at 64:1 but while that is still plenty of oil in the mix it does cut your buffer, so to speak, and an unnoticed air leak could create a lean condition to the point of damage. These days I mix everything at 50:1 and have never had a problem, and I'm still waiting for my first engine failure despite may hours of use. I know a guy who always mixes Saber at 100:1 and his equipment doesn't fail but you won't catch me doing that. But neither will I mix less than 50:1, especially if I'm weed-whacking for many hours and just marinating in a 2-stroke exhaust cloud.

Yeah, I will never run 80:1 or 100:1 with Saber. Quite a lot of people do, but I won’t. While it does provide protection for modern equipment, it does lead to piston skirt polishing. No scoring, but not enough oil to stop the polishing. Plus a few extra pennies worth of oil in the mix is WAY cheaper than rebuilding an engine or buying new equipment. I’ll still run my same 40:1 mix that I’ve used for quite a few years. I mix a 2-1/2 gallon batch of fuel at a time so it gets used up fairly quickly with no chance of sitting around going bad and causing carb issues.

I still have a cheap old snot green Poulan P1500 curved shaft trimmer that still has the factory spark plug, primer bulb and fuel lines. Still fires up and runs great. But the last time I had it running, probably the first week of February, I did notice that the purge bulb was getting stiff. So I’ll be replacing that and the fuel lines and filter. But after all, it is a 14 year old cheap trimmer and the only thing I’ve ever done to it besides cleaning the air filter and spark plug was get the carb adjusted where it runs like a little raped ape. It’s been a little screamer ever since. But I use my Husqvarna trimmer a lot more because of also using the attachments that I have for it.

L8R,
Matt

 

[Hermio]

I saw an interesting video on oil mix ratios. I watched it on TV so I don't have the link, but a gentleman tested 25:1 and 50:1 on a Stihl saw; I think it was an MS261 or similar. He compared temperatures at the exhaust after 3 minutes at idle, after 3 cuts on a ~16" log and after 3 cuts on ~12' logs. In all cases, the saw ran much hotter on 25:1 than 50:1. Engine temperature was as much as 38 degrees hotter at 25:1. The thought was that the 25:1 was effectively making the saw run lean. It also had noticeably less power. I am not sure if such would happen on an MS500i, with its sensors and microprocessors. But running hot was not a good thing. I tend to use 50:1 with Amsoil Saber because Stihl suggests 50:1. I once had a saw that asked for 16:1. I don't think the oil ratio needed depends as much on the saw design as the oil. As long as you have enough oil to create an oil film thick enough to avoid metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubrication. All it will do it make the saw run hotter and put more oil smoke in the exhaust. Will Saber really allow 100:1? I think it is possible. Many report doing so for years with no problem. But I am not ready to take that step. Oil is cheap compared to damage to my 500i.

 

[lone wolf]

I saw an interesting video on oil mix ratios. I watched it on TV so I don't have the link, but a gentleman tested 25:1 and 50:1 on a Stihl saw; I think it was an MS261 or similar. He compared temperatures at the exhaust after 3 minutes at idle, after 3 cuts on a ~16" log and after 3 cuts on ~12' logs. In all cases, the saw ran much hotter on 25:1 than 50:1. Engine temperature was as much as 38 degrees hotter at 25:1. The though as that the 25:1 was effectively making the saw run lean. It also had noticeably less power. I am not sure if such would happen on an MS500i, with its sensors and microprocessors. But running hot was not a good thing. I tend to use 50:1 with Amsoil Saber because Stihl suggests 50:1. I once had a saw that asked for 16:1. I don't think the oil ratio needed depends as much on the saw design as the oil. As long as you have enough oil to create an oil film thick enough to avoid metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubrication. All it will do it make the saw run hotter and put more oil smoke in the exhaust. Will Saber really allow 100:1? I think it is possible. Many report doing so for years with no problem. But I am not ready to take that step. Oil is cheap compared to damage to my 500i.

Stick to what works for you. The only oil failure I ever had was when a worker put in straight gas once. I run 40 to 1 Amsoil everything is fine. People should worry more about using the crap gas that's at the pump!

 

[Hermio]

Stick to what works for you. The only oil failure I ever had was when a worker put in straight gas once. I run 40 to 1 Amsoil everything is fine. People should worry more about using the crap gas that's at the pump!

So far, no problem using E-10 gas plus Sta-Bil. But I did buy some 92 octane straight gas a couple of months ago. I had to drive 60 miles round trip to get it and paid $5/gallon. It should keep me over the summer, as I don't run m y saw much in the summer. E-10 should be OK if I use it up in a couple of months.

 

[wildwes]

Makes sense that it would run hot if not retuned when going to more oil. Unless I misunderstand, more oil effectively leans out the A/F ratio without retuning, since a larger percentage of the charge coming into the cylinder is oil instead of gasoline.

 

[cheato]

Richard Flagg on Youtube does a great job of testing (many brand oils, motorcycle oils and marine oils) and then showing how 2 stroke oils work in the crankcase of a chainsaw. Seeing is believing my friends.

 

[AnthemBassMan]

Richard Flagg on Youtube does a great job of testing (many brand oils, motorcycle oils and marine oils) and then showing how 2 stroke oils work in the crankcase of a chainsaw. Seeing is believing my friends.

While Richard Flagg’s oil tests are only one tank tests, he sure does show you a lot of information during that. If you compound those results by many tank fulls of use, you can definitely see which oils will give you better protection in the long run. Do other people have different results with oils he doesn’t like than he does? Absolutely. But if those are the more the exception than the norm, I’ll be staying away from them.

L8R,
Matt

 

[OM617YOTA]

Check the link in my signature. Run any JASO FD oil in any ratio between 16:1 and 50:1, and more importantly, tune your equipment for whatever you're running.

If you can't tune your equipment, learn how to do that before you worry about oil mixes.

Do this, and oil will not be the reason your equipment has a failure, it'll be something else. Go cut wood and be happy.

 

[thompsoncustom]

I saw an interesting video on oil mix ratios. I watched it on TV so I don't have the link, but a gentleman tested 25:1 and 50:1 on a Stihl saw; I think it was an MS261 or similar. He compared temperatures at the exhaust after 3 minutes at idle, after 3 cuts on a ~16" log and after 3 cuts on ~12' logs. In all cases, the saw ran much hotter on 25:1 than 50:1. Engine temperature was as much as 38 degrees hotter at 25:1. The thought was that the 25:1 was effectively making the saw run lean. It also had noticeably less power. I am not sure if such would happen on an MS500i, with its sensors and microprocessors. But running hot was not a good thing. I tend to use 50:1 with Amsoil Saber because Stihl suggests 50:1. I once had a saw that asked for 16:1. I don't think the oil ratio needed depends as much on the saw design as the oil. As long as you have enough oil to create an oil film thick enough to avoid metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubrication. All it will do it make the saw run hotter and put more oil smoke in the exhaust. Will Saber really allow 100:1? I think it is possible. Many report doing so for years with no problem. But I am not ready to take that step. Oil is cheap compared to damage to my 500i.

Makes sense that it would run hot if not retuned when going to more oil. Unless I misunderstand, more oil effectively leans out the A/F ratio without retuning, since a larger percentage of the charge coming into the cylinder is oil instead of gasoline.

it doesn't run hotter think about it there is a reason people that mill with there saw run more oil and fuel and that's cooling. You only have to ingredients and thats fuel or air and oil is a type of fuel with a higher btu rating than gas not that it matters with oil being less than 5% of the total fuel even at 25:1. Now the Mtronic might get confused with the extra oil and lean the saw out which would create heat and a lean running saw is gonna melt down no matter what oil ratio your running.

Also it's been studied in motocross racing which oil ratio makes the most power and I believe it was 16ish to 1 but even so it's not uncommon to run it a little less like 20:1 or 32:1 because of the increased fowling of the spark plug. Can't remember who did the study maybe dupont?

 

[epo]

Also it's been studied in motocross racing which oil ratio makes the most power and I believe it was 16ish to 1 but even so it's not uncommon to run it a little less like 20:1 or 32:1 because of the increased fowling of the spark plug. Can't remember who did the study maybe dupont?

These guys found the maximum for 18:1.

Dyno Results With Different Pre-Mix Ratios​

We started at 10:1, and went to 100:1. Our results showed that a two-stroke engine makes its best power at 18:1. Any more oil than that, and the engine ran poorly, because we didn’t have any jets rich enough to compensate for that much oil in the fuel.
https://motocrosshideout.com/2-stroke-dirt-bike-pre-mix-101/

 

[wildwes]

it doesn't run hotter think about it there is a reason people that mill with there saw run more oil and fuel and that's cooling. You only have to ingredients and thats fuel or air and oil is a type of fuel with a higher btu rating than gas not that it matters with oil being less than 5% of the total fuel even at 25:1. Now the Mtronic might get confused with the extra oil and lean the saw out which would create heat and a lean running saw is gonna melt down no matter what oil ratio your running.

Also it's been studied in motocross racing which oil ratio makes the most power and I believe it was 16ish to 1 but even so it's not uncommon to run it a little less like 20:1 or 32:1 because of the increased fowling of the spark plug. Can't remember who did the study maybe dupont?

I realize that more oil and fuel helps cool things down, BUT that is also talking about a correctly tuned engine when talking about motorcross and milling.
My point was that whatever ratio you're running, your saw needs to be tuned to it if you want the best power and longevity.

 

[Ilmater]

Hey guys, been thinking about this lately, what do y'all run in your equipment?

BlueMax 2 Cycle Aviation Engine Oil (Premix)
http://www.recpower.com/bluemax.htm

100% Dino. I ignore the 100:1 claim and run it at 20-25:1 in the following:

2x KGT27A-A1 string trimmers (1993)
1x KBL23A string trimmer (2002)
Tanaka TBL-7800 backpack blower (2009)
Redmax HB2300 HH blower (1995)
Commerical Toro w/ Suzuki TV5002 engine (engine is NOS)

Mixed with VP C9

 

[sean donato]

it doesn't run hotter think about it there is a reason people that mill with there saw run more oil and fuel and that's cooling. You only have to ingredients and thats fuel or air and oil is a type of fuel with a higher btu rating than gas not that it matters with oil being less than 5% of the total fuel even at 25:1. Now the Mtronic might get confused with the extra oil and lean the saw out which would create heat and a lean running saw is gonna melt down no matter what oil ratio your running.

Also it's been studied in motocross racing which oil ratio makes the most power and I believe it was 16ish to 1 but even so it's not uncommon to run it a little less like 20:1 or 32:1 because of the increased fowling of the spark plug. Can't remember who did the study maybe dupont?

m tronic/auto tune doesn't care what ratio you're running. It can flow more then enough fuel to overcome even pretty bad air leaks and keep the saw from blowing up, takes porting in stride, and big altitude and temp swings without breaking a sweat.
Second the oil shouldn't be fouling the plug. Most the studies referenced weren't done with oils even close to being modern or oils that most would typically use in o.p.e.

These guys found the maximum for 18:1.

Dyno Results With Different Pre-Mix Ratios​

We started at 10:1, and went to 100:1. Our results showed that a two-stroke engine makes its best power at 18:1. Any more oil than that, and the engine ran poorly, because we didn’t have any jets rich enough to compensate for that much oil in the fuel.
https://motocrosshideout.com/2-stroke-dirt-bike-pre-mix-101/

The study admits a major flaw in the first paragraph and didn't test any oils we would typically use. Also comparing how oil functions in a low output engine vs a high out put engine will have different results. Yes a 2 stroke benefits with more oil up to a point, but that point will be different in different engines and with different oils. It's literally impossible to say cart blanc what ratio is the best for all 2 stroke engines.

 

[epo]

The study admits a major flaw in the first paragraph and didn't test any oils we would typically use. Also comparing how oil functions in a low output engine vs a high out put engine will have different results. Yes a 2 stroke benefits with more oil up to a point, but that point will be different in different engines and with different oils. It's literally impossible to say cart blanc what ratio is the best for all 2 stroke engines.

I, for one, do not see a contradiction in what you wrote and the page I linked. It is worth reading it carefully.