661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

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I've got 3 661s and a 660 ... u wanna port 1 of the 661 and the 660 ?
I might have to send you my ported 660 if I can't find time to test. I'm only interested in 710, 800 off-road, and R50 compared at 32:1 and 40:1. Not just performance but also film strength. The Motul rep did say 710 might be a little thin at 40:1 in a ported saw turning over 10K in the cut and pushing over 210psi.
 
Because several of the respected builders on this site have indicated that built 390XP's can be problematic, I would like to hear from people who have used built 390XP's for an extended length of time. What oil at what ratio.
 
Because several of the respected builders on this site have indicated that built 390XP's can be problematic, I would like to hear from people who have used built 390XP's for an extended length of time. What oil at what ratio.
Send Canadiancarguy a message. I don't know if he'll respond on here or not. He had a thread a while back that was interesting.

Couple piston pictures I found. The one was run with 1.5 quarts of R50 and then 800 after that. The 800 starting cleaning the piston crown. Saw was tuned to 13.8k and would do 11k or so in the cut. The other is a 395 that was here and I can't remember how much run time on it. It was R50 I'm pretty sure.

112.jpg 395.jpg
 
so far my list to test - includes lucas, 2r, 710, 800 off road and h1r. I did have k2 and super m. But k2 and super m contain PIB. Polybutene

something I found on PIB. PIB does contribute to lubricity with “anti-scuffing” properties. The PIB is part of the man-made synthetic molecular structure that inhibits ring seal on engine “break-in” and leads to glazing of the cylinder walls. The reason for this lies in the fact that some of the synthetic molecules “high molecular weight” and chemical compounds (sulfur) cannot combust completely and thereby leave a residue on the cylinder wall. This residue continues to build over time and ‘ eventually prevents the rings from making contact with the cylinder walls leading to blow-by. This condition deteriorates performance and can be corrected only by honing the cylinder walls and installing fresh piston rings or switching to a high quality mineral based lubricant.


My understanding is that PIB doesn't always contribute to glazing. Depends on how the oil is formulated and for what specific application. ...so do I know that it would hurt a chainsaw? No. But the oil wasn't formulated for my saw.

And why take the risk when we have other alternatives to choose from, which are likely just as good if not better, without PIB in them.
Polybutaene is basically a polymer, and if I remember correctly a viscosity modifier. Most oils will have some, it's a good thing IMHO. At least that's how I remember it.
 
Eliminating R50 as well...

I know guys have had good results with R50. But the viscosity more than double that of Stihl ultra and husky...oils that were designed for saws. With it being that heavy, the risk is to high for me that it may not flow well enough to all the areas in a saw it needs to. 800 off road at 15 visc at 100c' is as high as I want to go.

Elminating Stihl Ultra as well - I've used it for years at 50:1 and 45:1 and lately at 40:1. It burns dirty at all of those ratios and according to mastermind it's even worse at 32:1. Carbon build up on the piston head is just going to insulate the piston...keep heat in it. Furthermore the gas coming into the chamber can't cool the top of the piston as well if it has carbon build up on it.

Eliminating Husky - I don't think anyone would argue on that one !

Eliminating Amsoil - To much hype and I don't think but a handful would argue with me.


Eliminating woodland - the make up of lucas looks far better and we have members here using lucas with success. The physical properties are approx the same. ie. viscosity. They are both cheap as well.

Elminating Shindaiwa - another injector/multipurpose oil which contains PIB

Eliminating Schaffer's - no one has even mentioned them once on this entire thread.


so I think my final test list will be...

Injector/Multi Purpose 2t oils -
lucas
yamalube 2r
motul 710

Premix 2t oils -
motul 800 off road
Belray H1R
What happens to oil when it gets hot, it thins out. The viscosity at high temperature simply means it maintains strength at temperature, it doesn't mean it's still thick as molasses.

So far we only have theories as the why H1R behaves the why it did, but no real answer. We're getting way ahead of ourselves to say The least.
 
Honestly, I think this needs tested on more than one model. You've already shown a huge difference in how a 660 and 660 respond.

Both. A stock saw doesn't have near the demands a ported one does. My vote would be your stock 661, a ported 661, and a ported 660/461/460.
How bout a high revving saw like a 550 or 346
 
I lean towards using full synthetic ester 2T oils for several reasons. They are polar, they offer greater shear value, they can be formulated to combust at the right temperature, and they can be formulated to burn cleaner. For these reasons I believe that they will give me better long term protection, which for me is the most important factor.

That being said, I believe there are many synthetic blends that can provide yeoman service to the vast majority of users. We are uber fanatical here, but I think the vast majority of users would not notice the difference. The problem with synthetic blends is that the base stock can be any mixture, and since the Castrol suit, highly refined mineral oils can be classified as synthetic ( another reason I focused on full synthetic esters ).

Between the equipment manufacturers, the oil producers, and the independent oil raters, I would suspect that there has been tens of thousands of hours of research done on this subject. And is continuing to be done. By chemists and engineers that have spent their careers immersed in this subject. I suspect that the research done by manufacturers that is made available is filtered through marketing. And EPA mandates. I would think that the engineering divisions of any of the oil producers and bottlers would know how to produce an oil that is suitable to the particular demand. The producers of oil formulate oils to a price point. They also produce "boutique" oils that are probably cutting edge. Whether or not it is worth it to you is your decision.
Well said!!
 
Here is my MM461R with 8 gal. Of sunoco110/87 efree for 98.5 octane @ 32:1 with motul 800t offroad. Its tuned to 14200 and last several tanks was used in 36" wood wot. Exhaust port and piston was wet and oily but the piston top had buildup. The 3rd pic is just wiping the piston top with a rag and WD40. Most of the buildup was soft. Not sure what oil Randy used in it or what Chad used when he dyno it? Last picture is all cleaned and ready to try R50!!20150501_150741.jpg 20150501_150210.jpg20150501_151004.jpg 20150501_151220.jpg20150501_151738.jpg
 
My case of Amsoil Saber arrived , I'll be set for a while at 50:1 . Car is getting it's yearly change too .

This thread kind of reminds me about the Seinfeld show about nothing .

Guys like an oil because it smells good ??!! , that's some important stuff right there !
 
My case of Amsoil Saber arrived , I'll be set for a while at 50:1 . Car is getting it's yearly change too .

This thread kind of reminds me about the Seinfeld show about nothing .

Guys like an oil because it smells good ??!! , that's some important stuff right there !

That will be the deciding factor for me as well. Have a few different oils en route and the best smelling oil will win. Have some race gas to mix it with so it should be a buffet for the nose.
 
I don't think there are corrosives in those oils. Years ago there was an issue with most ester oils in that they are hydroscopic and attract moisture. This would cause rusting of cranks and bearings, leading to failure. Most ester oils now have additives that prevent this. We should do our due diligence and confirm this with each oil, but I don't think it's a problem any more. BTW, Andre has addressed this several times. Bwalker had just been ignoring it and perpetuating the myth.
Its a property of esters. They are poor storage oils, period. And I have never seen a rust preventative in a pre mix oil.
 

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