Ahh ... you youngsters .... gwon!!!
661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?
- Thread starter redbull660
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redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
ok oil geeks. so it seems...
- belray doesn't like to burn very easily. Thus you have to increase fuel by I think article said 15%. Mastermind posted it back on page 37 I think.
- belray is a very heavy viscosity pure ester oil which provides enormous protection.
- So if it provides so much more protection than other oils. Why couldn't you reduce the amount of oil in the mix from 32:1 to say 40:1?
- assuming that Stihl ultra is a lessor quality oil than belray. Why is it (generally) accepted that Stihl ultra can be run at 40:1. While Belray which is a higher quality oil must be run at 32:1? Just because the bottle says 32:1? I mean come on, the oil wasn't designed around chainsaws. Wouldn't it at least be prudent to test what mix ratio works best in chainsaws?
- Furthermore we have belray saying per email that 32:1 is running too hot + slow in my test...why? Because in his opinion the mix at 32:1 is to heavy and slowing down the piston...thus producing a hotter jug than at 42:1 and yes, slower times by a 5-7 seconds in a 30 second cut.
- Obviously stihl is leaving deposits even at 40:1 after only 12 tanks on that one dude's 661. Randy or the customer posted a picture. So why even bother running stihl ultra?
Why not just run belray or some other higher quality oil than stihl? Belray seems to have a heck of a track record...just run it richer gas mix of maybe 40:1. I don't know what the number would be in a ported saw. But based on my tests and belray agrees...in my stock 661, 32:1 belray is to heavy and somewhere between 42:1 - 50:1 is the "equilibrium".
- belray doesn't like to burn very easily. Thus you have to increase fuel by I think article said 15%. Mastermind posted it back on page 37 I think.
- belray is a very heavy viscosity pure ester oil which provides enormous protection.
- So if it provides so much more protection than other oils. Why couldn't you reduce the amount of oil in the mix from 32:1 to say 40:1?
- assuming that Stihl ultra is a lessor quality oil than belray. Why is it (generally) accepted that Stihl ultra can be run at 40:1. While Belray which is a higher quality oil must be run at 32:1? Just because the bottle says 32:1? I mean come on, the oil wasn't designed around chainsaws. Wouldn't it at least be prudent to test what mix ratio works best in chainsaws?
- Furthermore we have belray saying per email that 32:1 is running too hot + slow in my test...why? Because in his opinion the mix at 32:1 is to heavy and slowing down the piston...thus producing a hotter jug than at 42:1 and yes, slower times by a 5-7 seconds in a 30 second cut.
- Obviously stihl is leaving deposits even at 40:1 after only 12 tanks on that one dude's 661. Randy or the customer posted a picture. So why even bother running stihl ultra?
Why not just run belray or some other higher quality oil than stihl? Belray seems to have a heck of a track record...just run it richer gas mix of maybe 40:1. I don't know what the number would be in a ported saw. But based on my tests and belray agrees...in my stock 661, 32:1 belray is to heavy and somewhere between 42:1 - 50:1 is the "equilibrium".
I've read so much on this subject, every tech writeup I could find, other forums and so on. Most any of the modern 2T oils are fine. I've ran quite a few different brands and it really comes down to personal taste. The best oil I ran was Mobile's 2t. Right now it's K2 or R50. But I'm a firewood cutter, not someone that runs a saw everyday. I always recommend Echo Powor blend or Yamalube to the local tree company I do repair work for, mixed at 40:1
When it comes to the power issue between different ratios, it's all in the tuning IMHO.
When it comes to the power issue between different ratios, it's all in the tuning IMHO.
KenJax Tree
Terraphobic
I asked Bel-Ray about MC-1 and H1R today because i have both and they suggested 50:1 for MC-1 and 32:1, 42:1, and 50:1 with H1R, but said the best results will be with 42:1.
STIHLTHEDEERE
This is Koty
all i can say is stihl ultra now makes me nervous, as does my 2260. i will stick to moto mix until get either some yamalube or honda 2r oil to premix with. going to silver lake sounds fun, but i am sure i would pay for it for a few days following the trip.
redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
661 = tunes itself. I gave it plenty of run time to do just that.
Given the vast possible combinations this little computer module is set for. I disagree with the idea that a reset had to be performed.
it has to account for -
- gas octane and quality - from 87 with ethanol to probably 94 with out.
- differences in elevation from sea level to maybe 7000?
- how many various combos - on the quality of air. humidity, temp, pressure so on
bottom line there is a very very wide range of possible conditions it has to account for...so going from 50:1 to 40:1 to 32:1 being the only real change because the weather didn't change, the air didn't change...I just don't see the whole reset idea.
I heard that happens to chimps as time goes on... who knew.
I am the one that got people to start using mx2t and 2r on this board. Circa 2001 IIRC.
IMO Klotz is a great oil for keep dust down on a gravel road.. I would run H1R before it and I am not fond of it.
redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
Next thing is, I see all these flash point temps - see list here - http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...1-results-info-condensed.277566/#post-5305417
Stihl is at 432 F. I don't quite understand it. But I am hesitant to try any of the oils with lower flash points than stihl. belray is at 395 and the other one close is the castor 927.
Furthermore it seems to me that we, in general have two different realms to choose from.
1. the lower flash point, thinner oils
or
2. the higher flash point higher viscosity oils.
It seems to me you would want to run a heavier mix of say 40:1 or even heavier with the thinner oils. But given the protection of the heavier viscosity oils could run lighter mixes of maybe 45:1? Since oil's main purpose is to lube and gas is to burn. Seems to me one could get more power and the same amount of protection running the heavier oils?
and please keep an open mind here. The likely reality is that we are in uncharted waters. These oils we are discussing are designed around bikes for the most part and aren't run like saws at all.
Stihl is at 432 F. I don't quite understand it. But I am hesitant to try any of the oils with lower flash points than stihl. belray is at 395 and the other one close is the castor 927.
Furthermore it seems to me that we, in general have two different realms to choose from.
1. the lower flash point, thinner oils
or
2. the higher flash point higher viscosity oils.
It seems to me you would want to run a heavier mix of say 40:1 or even heavier with the thinner oils. But given the protection of the heavier viscosity oils could run lighter mixes of maybe 45:1? Since oil's main purpose is to lube and gas is to burn. Seems to me one could get more power and the same amount of protection running the heavier oils?
and please keep an open mind here. The likely reality is that we are in uncharted waters. These oils we are discussing are designed around bikes for the most part and aren't run like saws at all.
Your piston run on Stihl didn't look that bad. Normal really. H1R isn't a super oil and it's technology is straight out of the 70's. IT'S also a mediocre at best oil. Your test is full of variables and the "tech" is jerk in you off. IMO of course..
Flash point and viscosity are not related to eachother, they are mutually independent of eachothers. Higher or lower of one doesnt not directly corrolate to higher or lower of the other. Further more, how do you know what the viscosity of each of the oils is?
Uncharted waters...give me a break..
Exactly! Flashpoint is mostly relevant to shipping and storage regs. A high flash oil doesn't mean the base stock is heavy or has a high endpoint. However flash point can sometimes give you a vague idea what's in a particular oil.
CR500
Diesel, Snowmobile, & Chainsaw Technician
Mixed up some Bel-Ray 32:1 the 7900 looked real good after a few tanks time will tell of course lol
I want to try some Motul 800 Road Racing any objections?
I want to try some Motul 800 Road Racing any objections?
You're getting senile, Randy!
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
No, I just chose to omit it, lolYou missed the fine print in my post I see.
BWalker, break it down for us, oil by oil. Andre, I'd like to see your opinions as well.
- Belray H1-R
- Motul 800 2T
- Amsoil Dominator
- Klotz R50
- Maxima K2
- Silkolene Pro 2
- Yamalube 2R
- Bailey's Full Synthetic
I like yamaha 2R in a saw. Would prefer mobil 2r, buts it's no longer available.
Dominator actually isn't too bad and I detest the Amsoil conpany.. I like 2R and have used it alot. I would try K2 as others I trust like it. NOT SURE ON baileys or silkolene. Would not run r50, h1r or 800.
