Termite
Time To Launch
Here is another interesting read that someone dice up.
http://global.yamaha-motor.com/about/technical_review/publish/no35/pdf/0008.pdf
http://global.yamaha-motor.com/about/technical_review/publish/no35/pdf/0008.pdf
661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?
- Thread starter redbull660
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This was posted several hundred pages back and is a good read, especially the conclusions.
I should be of note that Yamalube 2R uses polybutene in its blend. It's good stuff and has been for many years with a very long track record.
Forgive me if I missed a reply that covered this, I have followed this thread for awhile then broke off but have tried to view all the pages.
As far as the timed cuts with different oil ratios, are the mixture screws being adjusted, any carb compensation for the added oil? AFAIK, when you add more oil doesn't this lean out the saw? Wouldn't this result in a hotter saw and less power?
Again, I'm not sure on this but curious as to the fundamentals of changing the oil mixture in regards to how this leans or richens the fuel mixture.
As far as the timed cuts with different oil ratios, are the mixture screws being adjusted, any carb compensation for the added oil? AFAIK, when you add more oil doesn't this lean out the saw? Wouldn't this result in a hotter saw and less power?
Again, I'm not sure on this but curious as to the fundamentals of changing the oil mixture in regards to how this leans or richens the fuel mixture.
gunnusmc03
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's an mtronic saw with computer controlled carb. The saw adjusts on its own as needed to reach the proper rpm.
And I believe he is resetting after each test.
Termite
Time To Launch
Oh, I have read almost this whole thread but my instant and total recall is not what it once was.
Termite
Time To Launch
I made an inquiry to Bel-Ray about their 2t mineral oil. This is their response.
Brian,
The Bel-Ray 2T Mineral Engine Oil uses a combination of group II and group I base oils for its base fluid. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
With regards,
Sir Tech
I was expecting group II and group III.
Brian,
The Bel-Ray 2T Mineral Engine Oil uses a combination of group II and group I base oils for its base fluid. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.
With regards,
Sir Tech
I was expecting group II and group III.
Taken from Tanaka FAQ, interesting read
Q. How can Tanaka Perfect Mix accommodate my other brands of power equipment that require a different ratio than 50:1?
A. Oil is a blend of components. The bulk of it is a base stock, which is oil, but it's primary purpose is not to lubricate, but rather to blend with, and carry additives that provide specific functions. The most important additive is the one that provides the lubricity. Some people refer to this additive as "bright-stock". The base oil also can blend with and carry other additives designed to accomplish different things. For example, quality oils have an additive that helps maintain the integrity of the gasoline should it be stored as mixed fuel for extended periods. Another additive may help reduce exhaust smoke.
Oil took on a marketing theme many years ago. A company who made brand A product also sells oil. How do they protect their oil business and prevent customers from buying the competitors oil? Let's say for the sake of argument that an oil blend requires X amount of the lubricity additive to adequately run an engine. The manufacturer would then formulate an oil blend with the amount of additives to reach that level when mixed at the odd ratio they prescribe for their product. As you've seen, there are 16:1, 25:1, 32:1, 40:1 42:1, 50:1, etc. However, if you analyzed these oils, you'd find very similar amounts of the actual ingredients needed to provide the life allowing lubricity (even at these odd ratios). This has been a very effective way of convincing a customer who bought a unit requiring two cycle oil to buy their brand of oil. Who wants to take a chance on a $500 machine?? If it says 42:1, the customer assumes he needs to seek out a 42:1 oil.
Tanaka Perfect Mix is what's referred to as a one-mix oil. The oil is formulated so that when mixed at 50:1, or 2.6 ounces per gallon of fuel, it contains enough of the life-giving additives to work in any of these engines. Additionally, it goes a long way in simplifying the mixing of the oil with the self measuring bottle. There are other one-mix types of oil that mix at a ratio of 100:1. Most people would look at that and think that there simply isn't enough oil to allow the engine to survive, but again, it's not the amount of base stock that is the important issue. It's what is contained within the blend. Their blend has higher percentage of the additive than does an oil that mixes at 25:1.
Q. How can Tanaka Perfect Mix accommodate my other brands of power equipment that require a different ratio than 50:1?
A. Oil is a blend of components. The bulk of it is a base stock, which is oil, but it's primary purpose is not to lubricate, but rather to blend with, and carry additives that provide specific functions. The most important additive is the one that provides the lubricity. Some people refer to this additive as "bright-stock". The base oil also can blend with and carry other additives designed to accomplish different things. For example, quality oils have an additive that helps maintain the integrity of the gasoline should it be stored as mixed fuel for extended periods. Another additive may help reduce exhaust smoke.
Oil took on a marketing theme many years ago. A company who made brand A product also sells oil. How do they protect their oil business and prevent customers from buying the competitors oil? Let's say for the sake of argument that an oil blend requires X amount of the lubricity additive to adequately run an engine. The manufacturer would then formulate an oil blend with the amount of additives to reach that level when mixed at the odd ratio they prescribe for their product. As you've seen, there are 16:1, 25:1, 32:1, 40:1 42:1, 50:1, etc. However, if you analyzed these oils, you'd find very similar amounts of the actual ingredients needed to provide the life allowing lubricity (even at these odd ratios). This has been a very effective way of convincing a customer who bought a unit requiring two cycle oil to buy their brand of oil. Who wants to take a chance on a $500 machine?? If it says 42:1, the customer assumes he needs to seek out a 42:1 oil.
Tanaka Perfect Mix is what's referred to as a one-mix oil. The oil is formulated so that when mixed at 50:1, or 2.6 ounces per gallon of fuel, it contains enough of the life-giving additives to work in any of these engines. Additionally, it goes a long way in simplifying the mixing of the oil with the self measuring bottle. There are other one-mix types of oil that mix at a ratio of 100:1. Most people would look at that and think that there simply isn't enough oil to allow the engine to survive, but again, it's not the amount of base stock that is the important issue. It's what is contained within the blend. Their blend has higher percentage of the additive than does an oil that mixes at 25:1.
This is not really how it works, the math done not work like that. What you read was marketing nothing more.
porsche965
Addicted to ArboristSite
Truth lies in engine failures. Everything else is speculation. And not one here and one there, or a picture or two.
For all the hundred of thousands of successful running two strokes used daily 1 or 2 past pics or failures don't make a trend. And could have come from other dynamics of the engine and maintenance, not the oil.
For all the hundred of thousands of successful running two strokes used daily 1 or 2 past pics or failures don't make a trend. And could have come from other dynamics of the engine and maintenance, not the oil.
Khntr85
Addicted to ArboristSite
Wow a lot of work you have went threw on these test, thanks for making this info avalible to everyone!!!
I know this is totally off topic, but since you have your hug off quite a lot what kind is sealer do you use.... Not trying to start a debate just asking OP personally.... Agian thanks for all the work you have done!!!!
I know this is totally off topic, but since you have your hug off quite a lot what kind is sealer do you use.... Not trying to start a debate just asking OP personally.... Agian thanks for all the work you have done!!!!
I don't have the time to read the 438 pages of this thread and need to know what ratio to run in my new saw.....so is it 32:1, 40:1 or 50:1? The answer must be in the thread somewhere, thanks.
be ready to get bombarded by the rest of the posters lol
I've been using 20:1 fuel - oil mix for many years. The tanaka article is good information, but does not address hydrodynamic lubrication mode versus boundry lubrication mode.
For long engine life the routine operation should be in hydrodynamic (full film) mode, so you need a certain amount of oil volume to achieve this layer of separation.
I like a high TBN 2 cycle oil, most "factory" oils are a TBN around 2.o . I like the marine PWC oils which are a low ash but contain additional calcium or magnesium sulfonate detergent-dispersant. The TBN is about 5.0 to 6.0. TCW-3 oils are even higher in TBN, around 9-10, due to the constant threat from the water environment.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28766/what-is-lubrication
http://pqiamerica.com/TBN.htm
For long engine life the routine operation should be in hydrodynamic (full film) mode, so you need a certain amount of oil volume to achieve this layer of separation.
I like a high TBN 2 cycle oil, most "factory" oils are a TBN around 2.o . I like the marine PWC oils which are a low ash but contain additional calcium or magnesium sulfonate detergent-dispersant. The TBN is about 5.0 to 6.0. TCW-3 oils are even higher in TBN, around 9-10, due to the constant threat from the water environment.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28766/what-is-lubrication
http://pqiamerica.com/TBN.htm
Michigan Escapee
ArboristSite Operative
I've got about a quart of 40:1 bottle gas left over, and a few small jobs. Gonna live on the wild side and run it in my Husq 445, instead of the usual 50:1.
redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
Previously I had been running 32:1 HP2 in this saw. The piston top looked pretty wet.
I decided to back down a little to 36:1 hp2. So after about 1.5 gallons at 36:1 ....
I decided to back down a little to 36:1 hp2. So after about 1.5 gallons at 36:1 ....
redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
muff modded 661 - 7 tanks of schaeffers 32:1 (ran from day one only on schaeffers 32:1)
redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
661 with new piston & jug. 3 gallons of amsoil saber 32:1 through it so far. don't really care for the discoloration on the front of the pistion skirt. I saw a little of that with Si-7. Didn't see it with honda hp2, mobil 1, or schaeffers.
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redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tree Monkey is always telling me how well Schaeffers cleans things up. So after 3 gallons of amsoil mix, the top of the jug was fairly dirty. I decided to run 2 tanks only of schaeffers and test what he has been telling me. I'd say that looks pretty clean?
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redbull660
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have been running 36:1 klotz original techniplate since day 1 on my new 661 arctic. I have 7 tanks on it so far. The saw has the old style boot and it's been bogging. So I decided to change the boot....which pretty much requires pulling the jug. It's a total pain to drop the tank with all the wiring on the arctic.
seems to burn pretty clean inside the muffler can. Big mark on the piston. Oil fault? Klotz does say 13k limit for orig. techniplate. But I would only go over that piss reving so? Or maybe Hd2 let something get through? This is my 11th or 12th 661 and this is the first time I've seen this and it's the first time I've used original techniplate. coincidence?
see video for top of piston - it's wet and black. No transfer wash showing. Video is posted after pictures.
inside the jug. Not exactly clean, like I've seen with the likes of mobil 1, honda hp2, and schaeffers.
vid - shows much more than the pics.
Maybe it would run cleaner at 40:1?
seems to burn pretty clean inside the muffler can. Big mark on the piston. Oil fault? Klotz does say 13k limit for orig. techniplate. But I would only go over that piss reving so? Or maybe Hd2 let something get through? This is my 11th or 12th 661 and this is the first time I've seen this and it's the first time I've used original techniplate. coincidence?
see video for top of piston - it's wet and black. No transfer wash showing. Video is posted after pictures.
inside the jug. Not exactly clean, like I've seen with the likes of mobil 1, honda hp2, and schaeffers.
vid - shows much more than the pics.
Maybe it would run cleaner at 40:1?
