661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[mdavlee]

anyone have info on lowest temp some of these oils can be used at?

Stihl shows -38F "pour point". Not sure if that would be the number though.


I asked belray how low I could go with H1R...

Redbull says -

Sir,

is there a lowest temp stat that one would consider if you were using at say -30F below? yeah I know...but the truth is I have done cutting at those temps.
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Belray -

Yes we have that data for our 2-stroke oils. The H1-R experiences some additive dropout at -42°C (-44°F), but none was seen before that point during the cooldown range. Now, it may still be usable past that temperature as it wasn’t the entire bulk of oil that separated, but since some additives dropped out, we would not suggest running it at that temperature or lower because of the possible risk.

Motul tech last December told me -54° for 800 off road. Said the snowmobile formula was for even colder.

 

[Marshy]

Are you running modded cylinders ?.

Somehow more air must be brought in somewhere on this one .
View attachment 419480

The extra air passes through the carb first right? All those squiggly passages increase the pumping efficiency so a larger charge of fuel and air can be brought in and more power can be made. Its not like those cause the saw to become lean as the saw heats up.

 

[mdavlee]

I disagree with his point (in bold). How would they get leaner? Is less fuel getting mixed with the incoming air charge or is more air being brought into the combustion chamber some how?

Can you tune a cold engine?

 

[Marshy]

Can you tune a cold engine?

Of course you can but why would you?

 

[mdavlee]

Of course you can but why would you?

That's my point. If you tune it when it's not at full heat like a milling cut or a 2-3 minute cut in 60" wood then it can go lean there. That's the only thing I was saying.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I'm gonna compare this to Lucas semi synthetic. Lucas is 70% petroleum oil and 30% syntheics and has a flashpoint of 175., 7.5 viscosity @ 100°c. $9.99 a quart

Super M is a synthetic blend of 60% ester synthetic and 40% petroleum oil and has a flashpoint of 230, 12.30 visocsity @ 100°c. $11.99 a liter

 

[redbull660]

why would you want to burn a petroleum product...ash left over when it's burnt = build up inside. If there are oils out there that avoid build up...why wouldn't you go for said oils?

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looking at Stihl Ultra MSDS
http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf


page 2 -
Base Oil: Trimethylolpropane Complex Ester 80-90%
Additive Mixture 0-20%

no mention of solvents. from what im reading solvents are put in oils to help with injectors. obviously saws don't have injectors.

Point or Question - should we even consider oils out there with solvents? This would take yamalube, maxima k2 and a few others out of the running.

I'm sure someone is going to come on here and disagree and that's fine. But at least support the reason why you think a engine without injectors ie. namely a chainsaw should use oil with solvents. I want a real reason. Not some half azz remark like oh it doesn't hurt it or it doesn't matter.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Isn't all oil that isn't synthetic petro based? It looks better on paper than Lucas and Lucas has worked great for me and many others here, pics have been posted of internals using Lucas, see anything you didn't like?

I will use K2 and Lucas or possibly Super M depending on MY observation in MY saws for MY use which is 6-8 hours a day.

Feel free to test whatever oils you'd like making a couple cuts in a big log, and use the results to choose your oil. You guys are way overlooking all this oil stuff and in it way over your head and will never come to a conclusion everyone is happy with.

I'm not knocking your testing at all, i'm interested in what you come up with, but for my use the result will mean nothing at all.

 

[KenJax Tree]

why would you want to burn a petroleum product...ash left over when it's burnt = build up inside. If there are oils out there that avoid build up...why wouldn't you go for said oils?

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page 2 -
Base Oil: Trimethylolpropane Complex Ester 80-90%
Additive Mixture 0-20%

no mention of solvents. from what im reading solvents are put in oils to help with injectors. obviously saws don't have injectors.

Point or Question - should we even consider oils out there with solvents? This would take yamalube, maxima k2 and a few others out of the running.

If K2 and Yamalube is good enough for a Pro MX race team its surely good enough in a chainsaw.

I have no soild info or reasoning or answer your seeking to back any reason why i use what i use.

All i'm gonna say its @ 40:1 you'll never blow a motor under normal conditions using any oil, mineral, synthetic, or semi synthetic.

 

[Andyshine77]

The difference in volume between 44:1 and 32:1. A bit less than one ounce.

 

[porsche965]

The question is through the time it takes to burn a gallon of fuel with this much less oil will the saw components notice it with appropriate tune?

I bet with 100:1 you would need a larger bottle

 

[MustangMike]

Chris, let me know when you want theAMSOIL Saber back (Ha,Ha,Ha).

I checked the fluids and started all 4 saws today, but I postponed the the cutting planned for tomorrow to Sat due to the rain forecast.

 

[Trx250r180]

The extra air passes through the carb first right? All those squiggly passages increase the pumping efficiency so a larger charge of fuel and air can be brought in and more power can be made. Its not like those cause the saw to become lean as the saw heats up.

This saw revs a little higher than my normal modded work saws ,so more protection may be required from extra heat it produces ,i mostly posted the pic to but your balls on the more air thing ,It is ok not to take this stuff so serious you know

 

[bwalker]

why would you want to burn a petroleum product...ash left over when it's burnt = build up inside. If there are oils out there that avoid build up...why wouldn't you go for said oils?

------------------------------------------------------------------------


looking at Stihl Ultra MSDS
http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/MSDS/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf


page 2 -
Base Oil: Trimethylolpropane Complex Ester 80-90%
Additive Mixture 0-20%

no mention of solvents. from what im reading solvents are put in oils to help with injectors. obviously saws don't have injectors.

Point or Question - should we even consider oils out there with solvents? This would take yamalube, maxima k2 and a few others out of the running.

I'm sure someone is going to come on here and disagree and that's fine. But at least support the reason why you think a engine without injectors ie. namely a chainsaw should use oil with solvents. I want a real reason. Not some half azz remark like oh it doesn't hurt it or it doesn't matter.

Solvents are typically added to premix oils to keep the components from seperating.None of the oils talked about in this thread are injector oils, so once again your information is false. And it would be silly to not consider using an oil with a diluent.
As for ash, petroleum oils and synthetic oils can all leave carbon deposits. I posted a pic earlier of a piston run on H1R that was coated in heavy carbon buildup in places it shouldn't be. It happens, even with synthetics. The idea that synthetics are much cleaner than petroleum based oils was very true in the days when petroleum bright stock was used as a anti scuff additive. The lines gave considerable blurred now that PIB has replaced bright stock. It's very common now to have syn blend oils that are cleaner than full ester oils.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Chris, let me know when you want theAMSOIL Saber back (Ha,Ha,Ha).

Its all yours Mike[emoji3]

We worked in the rain most of the day it wasn't a hard rain just a light steady rain, it was raining to hard to work but not hard enough to not work, you know what i mean.[emoji1]

 

[bwalker]

One other thing to consider. MSDS do not list all the components present. They only list those that are hazardous.

 

[super3]

All i'm gonna say its @ 40:1 you'll never blow a motor under normal conditions using any oil, mineral, synthetic, or semi synthetic.

If you mean stock, your statement is true.


Ported, don't count on it.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Good GAWD you people still going on about this. Get a life.

 

[redbull660]

Solvents are typically added to premix oils to keep the components from seperating.None of the oils talked about in this thread are injector oils, so once again your information is false. And it would be silly to not consider using an oil with a diluent.
As for ash, petroleum oils and synthetic oils can all leave carbon deposits. I posted a pic earlier of a piston run on H1R that was coated in heavy carbon buildup in places it shouldn't be. It happens, even with synthetics. The idea that synthetics are much cleaner than petroleum based oils was very true in the days when petroleum bright stock was used as a anti scuff additive. The lines gave considerable blurred now that PIB has replaced bright stock. It's very common now to have syn blend oils that are cleaner than full ester oils.

Sounds like you need solvents...so then I'd have to ask, why doesn't the following oils have any solvents?

motul 800
maxima 927
belray H1R
Stihl Ultra

might be others I haven't check yet.

H1R build up - well maybe it shouldn't be run so heavy ie. 32:1 since it doesn't have any solvents to dilute the actual oil by volume content. You dump enough oil in a saw it's going to have build up no matter what kind of Base fluid the oil is comprised of.

 

[KenJax Tree]

If you mean stock, your statement is true.


Ported, don't count on it.

Like i said earlier if pro MX teams can use 40:1 or even 50:1 in their high performance bikes so can a chainsaw.