A legend on the porch: Super 797

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I remember a guy named Bruce Hopf who suggested pulling the rope out a few inches when shutting off a saw to avoid damage to the starter. He was soundly abused on this forum since most young guys have never had a saw with the starter pawls on the flywheel...

Nice saw Charles, sorry but I haven't had a chance to look around for sprocket shaft yet. Maybe I will get to spend some time at home this weekend and see what I can come up with.

Maybe JJ can help out here?

Mark
 
No problem Mark, I'm not in a big hurry. I have this one to play with as well as most of a 1-72 to tear in to and a D44 arriving any day...
 
I agree totally on the starter rope thing. I've had the 795 catch on me and rip it clean out of my hands trying to start it and all my Macs grab back at the end of a shut down. That's probably why there's so many busted starter covers, including the one on this saw and the one on my 1-82.
 
I remember a guy named Bruce Hopf who suggested pulling the rope out a few inches when shutting off a saw to avoid damage to the starter. He was soundly abused on this forum since most young guys have never had a saw with the starter pawls on the flywheel...

Nice saw Charles, sorry but I haven't had a chance to look around for sprocket shaft yet. Maybe I will get to spend some time at home this weekend and see what I can come up with.

Maybe JJ can help out here?

Mark

I agree totally on the starter rope thing. I've had the 795 catch on me and rip it clean out of my hands trying to start it and all my Macs grab back at the end of a shut down. That's probably why there's so many busted starter covers, including the one on this saw and the one on my 1-82.



Bruce got railed for no good reason, and he was right.


From the Mac4300(PM700) manual:


4583011034_f7477d7c65_b.jpg



4582385311_5486eec76d_b.jpg



4582387915_360d77dab8_b.jpg





.
 
I have a saw that looks just like that. The only difference is that it says 440 on the name plate, which means it's only 87cc.:(
 
I have a saw that looks just like that. The only difference is that it says 440 on the name plate, which means it's only 87cc.:(

That's the good part. Confusion to the ruler of the house!!! From the rear, my pair of 1-72s, 1-82, 795, this and the D44 that's coming look substantially identical. In the case of all but the D-44, I could swap filter covers and really confuse the heck out of some folks. Might be a fun little prank at a GTG:jester:.

"Hey, can I try that 797?"

Sure! (hand over the 795 with the cover swapped)

"That was neat!"

Well, you handled that well enough, you might as well try the real thing...
 
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Bruce got railed for no good reason, and he was right.


From the Mac4300(PM700) manual:




.

Thanks for that Tzed. Never knew it was "company policy". I started doing it after seeing SK do it in his vids and reading starter horror stories on here.

I tried to rep you but I couldn't, somebody ring him up for me!
 
Bruce got railed for no good reason, and he was right.


From the Mac4300(PM700) manual:


4583011034_f7477d7c65_b.jpg



4582385311_5486eec76d_b.jpg



4582387915_360d77dab8_b.jpg





.

It's right there in black and white, thanks for posting this. There was an old guy that did that very thing on the pioneers we used when I was a young pup working at a sawmill, hell I thought he was crazy as a bedbug.
 
Probably got to old and feeble to lift it, you would remember if you ever used one of them.
Pioneerguy600

i have its older brother, the 125, with a 60"er on it. yeah, those guys were men that toted these saws up and down mountains everyday.

bruce was his own worst enemy. he would start lots of threads asking questions that had just been answered and then he wouldn't listen to what those who were far more experienced than he, had to say. but yes, he was right about pulling the starter rope out as SOP for shutting certain saws down.
i have seen him elsewhere: he seems to have mellowed some.
 
i have its older brother, the 125, with a 60"er on it. yeah, those guys were men that toted these saws up and down mountains everyday.

.

125s were younger brothers, or perhaps close cousins, there are a lot of differences between the 797s and SP125s, not to mention the CPs.
 
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125s were younger brothers, or perhaps close cousins, there are a lot of differences between the 797s and SP125s, not to mention the CPs.

I've searched that very thing many times. What exactly are the differences between the 797s, Super 797s, CP125, and the SP125c? I know about the antivibe on the 125s and the different covers, plus McCulloch seemed to play wheel-of-carburetors... What's the real difference in terms of port, piston, and crank design? Surely the MC101s enter the discussion here, too? I would think for the ultimate feel, one would want a 797 chassis with an MC101M/C, not the 101b?

I turn this over to you, hot rod Mac pros... Educate us.
 
It was my impression that there were three different motors, each numeric model had it's own. The CPs had that piecemeal AV and an cast iron cylinder liner, the SPs have chromed cylinders and city boy AV.
Yeah, McCullochs love of changing carbs in mid stream, some were odd.
 
I've searched that very thing many times. What exactly are the differences between the 797s, Super 797s, CP125, and the SP125c? I know about the antivibe on the 125s and the different covers, plus McCulloch seemed to play wheel-of-carburetors... What's the real difference in terms of port, piston, and crank design? Surely the MC101s enter the discussion here, too? I would think for the ultimate feel, one would want a 797 chassis with an MC101M/C, not the 101b?

I turn this over to you, hot rod Mac pros... Educate us.

I got a little time while my lasagna is cooking, so here goes:

The 797 engine was birthed from the 101b yes, but the timing is not quite the same but close to a 101b. If you look at the piston, you'll see it's identical to that in the 101b. Later pistons from other 101 motors can't be easily interchanged without changing the rod as well, since there were minor variations in the crown height of the piston(s). There's a 101 piston with windows that's timed for the boost port blocks that works well in the 797 with the corresponding rod. There's a rod that's proprietary to the 101b, 101d, and 101AA that can be used in the 797 if you have the matching piston.

The 797 is part of the family of "Super Series" engines which include some of the kart engines and saw engines. The 797 blocks have the removable boost port "window" which later became boost ports actually cast into the block, seen on later kart engines and 125 saw motors. The 797 block is not a third-port block like the Mc20 kart engine or D44 saw motor.

Main 797 features: removable boost port window, bridged exhaust, hemispherical combustion chamber, horizontal-mounted coil, DSP-style compression release, right-hand start, moderately aggressive intake and transfer timing, same stuffer as stock 101b motor (w/cut-out for pulse oiling), crank w/bolt-on weights, and kart-mount style exhaust. The 797 Super would have the updated main bearings, different carb (usually SDC?), thin-ring piston.

The CP-125 block has the cast boost ports, slightly smaller combustion chamber, bridged exhaust, less aggressive intake and transfer timing, horizontal-mount coil, kart-mount style exhaust, single-reed intake manifold, and straight compression release. The piston in the CP motors should have cut-outs for the boost ports and came in both thin and thick-ring. The CP rod would use the 1/2" wrist pin with needle rollers in the piston rather than in the rod. The CP blocks are all steel sleeve blocks as are the 797s.

The SP-125 block has the large oval-shaped exhaust port (longest blow-down time of any of the saw blocks) w/different exhaust mounting, larger combustion chamber, lower intake and transfer timing, dual-reed intake manifold, diagonal-mounted ignition, and "hockey-puck" piston w/no cut-outs for boost ports. The rod in the SP motors uses a 9/16" wrist pin with needle bearings in the rod rather than in the piston. The SP pistons were usually thin-ring. The SP block came in both steel sleeve and chrome-lined bore. The SPs used the straight compression release and the funky squared off muffler with its own proprietary cover. These are not compatible on the Cp and 797 blocks. Cranks on the SPs had the welded-on weights.
 
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Thanks Jacob that was a great rundown.

if I have time this weekend, I'll take a bunch of pics of all the blocks side-by-side along with the pistons and rods to really "show" the differences.

All of the Mac saw engines in that size class are good runners. Like Randy and others have said, the 797 is a real hotrod out of the box. However, the CP and SP engines can really made to be monsters. One old-timer here showed me a SP engine he built where he cut his own boost ports, made a quick-time piston, and a full-circle crank.
 
Leave it to JJ to set things straight in terms we can all understand. He's in my honest opinion, the most knowledgeable pundit of all things chainsaw related ever to inhabit this wonderful site. There are others that are extremely knowledgeable in certain areas and about specific manufacturers idiosyncrasies. He can still take them all to task when they are incorrect and teach them a thing or two. My hat's off too anyone that has the ability to gather the experience to do so. Cheers JJ for so willingly sharing what you know!
J
 

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