When I posted what I did I hadn,t seen bark busters post ....... Bark buster , Were all tougher than twisted cougar #### on here , but you need to have a doctor check your knee out ............ Ya know why alot of top football highschool and college players don,t work in the brush ..... They CAN'T ... They were too tough and now their bodies don,t work ...... I found that out guiding ... Most of those guys would give their left you know what to be able to walk up a mountain ...... One time I stuck the outside dog of an 064 thru my knee cap . Man did that hurt .. I went to the doc , it was on workers comp . So they paid for the flight to town .. That knee works fine , Thank God !!!!! But it was good to get some professional advice ................. Doctors are kind of like Professional Fallers , or Pro Arborists ..... They actually Know what they are doing .!!!!!! Sometimes you can,t be one without the other .......