banning use of owb in ohio

[irishcountry]

PERFECT EXAMPLE!! Thats exactly what i'm talking about its ok for the state, a large corporation (that pays lots of taxes) or any part of the government to do what they need to to make it "better" or work out to their benefit but god forbid anyone that can and is willing to be more self sufficient run a outdoor wood boiler better to let the logs rot on the ground or stand dead!! Like I said it seems very fishy to me I have seen a OWB down the road and I have purposely watched it at different times of the day and never do I see the entire valley behind his home clouded with smoke NEVER i'm am sure it varies with the manufacturer and model but if I was his neighbor it wouldn't bother me at all!! Last time I went by any large factory anywhere or worse refining plants ect. there are tons of smoke you can't tell me that a whole neighborhood of OWB could possibly put out a matching equivilent of CO2 and smoke. Thank you

 

[Butch(OH)]

PERFECT EXAMPLE!! Thats exactly what i'm talking about its ok for the state, a large corporation (that pays lots of taxes) or any part of the government to do what they need to to make it "better" or work out to their benefit but god forbid anyone that can and is willing to be more self sufficient run a outdoor wood boiler better to let the logs rot on the ground or stand dead!! Like I said it seems very fishy to me I have seen a OWB down the road and I have purposely watched it at different times of the day and never do I see the entire valley behind his home clouded with smoke NEVER i'm am sure it varies with the manufacturer and model but if I was his neighbor it wouldn't bother me at all!! Last time I went by any large factory anywhere or worse refining plants ect. there are tons of smoke you can't tell me that a whole neighborhood of OWB could possibly put out a matching equivilent of CO2 and smoke. Thank you

The sooner you quit trying to make common sense out of the environmental wacko crowd and/or the EPA says the sooner you will realize that it isn't about clean air and water. It is about control, tax money and job security for life long loafs on public payrolls. The real "job" of the EPA was completed 15 years ago when they got most of the heavy industry run out of the states and passed the clean water act. Now they pick on evil things like OWBs because they get bored playing cards on their computers and the grandstanding helps them get a few more bucks from the state budget.

The Ohio EPA's so-called facts are simply photo copied lore from their socialistic comrades out east. They didn't even bother to get new photos. Their "facts" are provable to be not factual. They wont release actual complaint numbers, only say "many" and on and on. Back them in a corner and all the can do is say how can it hurt to save some smoke? My guess is the legislation will pas in some form short of what is proposed at this time, how short? depends on how much fuss is raised, none of the chicken :censored:its want their face on the front page of the papers, that is on our side.

 

[irishcountry]

You called it!! Its a shame that control and greed seem to factor into every facet of our goverment but your right about all you said when I was younger I guess I never looked at how things work even on a local level maybe I was better off then cuz if sure can make you red. The worst part is all of the thing they do to "us" is with our own money what a rackett!! A guys in my home town called the same township and said he heard OWB were already banned he said I want to put one in soon and was told no there are absolutely no bans on any woodburners all the officials did was attend a meeting at the capitol on OWB and their smoke "problems" why did he get the answer he did because he has raised and big ruckus over other issues and has no problem telling them what he thinks about how they are doing their jobs!! He simply stated they are there to work for us not against us he's right but boy is that so not how it seems to be!! I hope somehow all this stuff gets shot down it really seems like the "free" fades more by the year and we are left with just the "dumb" maybe its always been this way and i'm just now opening my eyes now that i'm older and thinking about what my kids will live like 10 or 20 years from now!! Keeping my fingers crossed for Ohio!!

 

[Zodiac45]

Well Butch, You can rant and rave all you want about the legislators but it's sort of like don't kill the messenger. You're always going to have someone coming along and micro managing everything. It's a sad commentary on how tax dollars are spent. That said, and I've said this before, it's the 5% or less of the bad apples that ruin things for everyone else.
I'm inclined to agree with the Installer. Those people burning garbage, junk and unseasoned wood are a huge source of the problem. That and the poor design of some of the units are what's gonna screw the pootch if it doesn't get stopped.
I don't know what the answer is but for everyones sake (who operates OWB's) maybe there needs to be a standard established and then an inspection process. A pass or fail and if someone fails, they get a timetable to fix it and reinspect. Sort of like our vehicles and the sticker process?

 

[Butch(OH)]

The EPA is not the messenger, they are writing the message Why, if this problem is a people problem, are they attempting to regulate the inanimate object? If an OWB pollutes the air in town does it not pollute the air in the middle of 400 acres just the same amount???? or is the EPA now also allowing themselves to be another layer of zoning and land use control. How did they get into that business???

As I said, it isn't about pollution and it isn't about stopping at OWBs it is about control,,,

lets not confuse the issues.

 

[irishcountry]

Correction

Just to correct myself it was Asarco a company in El Paso Texas it was a copper smelter corp. they stopped for awhile but recently got permission to start up again.

 

[hanko]

there is a fellow in another post that says he burns all year long, now isnt that part of why OWB's are getting a bad rap

 

[hanko]

I also wanted to mention, and I just found this out a few days ago. I have a buddy in Hillman Mich who is of all things a bone cracker, and he also runs a health food store. He had a OWB set up in town to heat the health food store and his office. Caused quite a rukus. The town council passed an law and he had to move it. Now i would think to put one of those right in the middle of town is asking for trouble. I still think its a few bad ones that ruin it for others

 

[oneoldbanjo]

This is my first year with my OWB and I have to admit - it is dirtier than I though it would be. The manufacturers/dealers say that they only smoke a bit at start up - but that is a bit optomistic. I use dry seasoned wood and it smokes pretty heavy for about 10 minutes when new wood is added - but the blower barely runs much longer than that and the furnace is up to the 170 degree shut off for the blower. The furnace then goes into a smolder mode that can last several hours if the weather is warm. If the temperature is above freezing, still air and damp - the furnace can be pretty foul smelling. I don't believe you could make a stack tall enough to get rid of the smell in those conditions as the smoke drops to ground level quickly. The follwing burns get progressively cleaner and the coals burn real clean.

I love my OWB - but I am certainly glad that I don't have a neighbor within a few hundred feet of me that owns one. Luckily I live in a rural area and don't have any neighbors for 300 or so feet, and probably more like 1,000 feet in the predominant wind direction. When the air is dry and calm the smoke goes straight up - and when the wind is blowing the smoke dissipates long before it reaches any neighbors. I have two othe neighbors with OWB's and they also are far away from any other neighbors.

These furnaces don't burn clean - and the websites that I have found that list testing figures on OWB's show that the smoke from a single OWB causes as much pollution as 300 oil furnaces or up to 8,000 of the new efficient gas furnaces.

I certainly believe that OWB's with the current technology do not belong in populated areas - if you have neighbors closer than a few hundred feet - you are going to make their house smell like smoke occasionally. If they live on the downwind side - you may be sending the smoke toward them almost non stop. I am not pro-government/EPA and don't support a ban on them - but I do believe that a property owner needs protection against having an OWB installed too close to their property and don't have a problem with regulations that will provide protection for adjoining property owners/homeowners. If your OWB makes the neighbors house smell like smoke - it is too close and shouldn't be permitted.

 

[ziggy2b]

2 cents

I think the epa should see about getting the funds back to the state for all of the vehicle emmission stations they setup in this state?OOOOOOOOps then turn around and close them at taxpayers expense??? Know wonder this state is crying poor all the time!!!!!

 

[oneoldbanjo]

EPA inspections in the State of Cuba?

 

[Zodiac45]

This is my first year with my OWB and I have to admit - it is dirtier than I though it would be. The manufacturers/dealers say that they only smoke a bit at start up - but that is a bit optomistic. I use dry seasoned wood and it smokes pretty heavy for about 10 minutes when new wood is added - but the blower barely runs much longer than that and the furnace is up to the 170 degree shut off for the blower. The furnace then goes into a smolder mode that can last several hours if the weather is warm. If the temperature is above freezing, still air and damp - the furnace can be pretty foul smelling. I don't believe you could make a stack tall enough to get rid of the smell in those conditions as the smoke drops to ground level quickly. The follwing burns get progressively cleaner and the coals burn real clean.

I love my OWB - but I am certainly glad that I don't have a neighbor within a few hundred feet of me that owns one. Luckily I live in a rural area and don't have any neighbors for 300 or so feet, and probably more like 1,000 feet in the predominant wind direction. When the air is dry and calm the smoke goes straight up - and when the wind is blowing the smoke dissipates long before it reaches any neighbors. I have two othe neighbors with OWB's and they also are far away from any other neighbors.

These furnaces don't burn clean - and the websites that I have found that list testing figures on OWB's show that the smoke from a single OWB causes as much pollution as 300 oil furnaces or up to 8,000 of the new efficient gas furnaces.

I certainly believe that OWB's with the current technology do not belong in populated areas - if you have neighbors closer than a few hundred feet - you are going to make their house smell like smoke occasionally. If they live on the downwind side - you may be sending the smoke toward them almost non stop. I am not pro-government/EPA and don't support a ban on them - but I do believe that a property owner needs protection against having an OWB installed too close to their property and don't have a problem with regulations that will provide protection for adjoining property owners/homeowners. If your OWB makes the neighbors house smell like smoke - it is too close and shouldn't be permitted.

Thanks for the honest post. I know that you have invested considerable money in your OWB, but it's seems that you are being very objective when you wrote this description of how it burns, and you are a dry wood burner too boot!. It's begining to look like they have, in trying too make the appliance more efficient, created the monster. It is this smolder mode that causes the low temp fires and heavy smoke. All of us who use woodstoves understand that in the begining of a start up, and so some degree when adding wood, your going to get a bit of smoke. But I for one do not go for the cold fire smoldering technique. I've had two chimney fires that scared the bejeesus out of me and that was enough. I understand that this inn't an issue for OWB's but I prefer to burn hot, use a bit more wood maybe, burn cleaner. I wasn't aware that you can't regulate this ability on your OWB?

 

[crowbuster]

hanko, a friend of mine with a hardy and in a small town does just that, burn all year, bad enough when cold as it is the smokiest around, but when people are outside thats whats killing us, that and blocking the highway with smoke.

 

[hanko]

hanko, a friend of mine with a hardy and in a small town does just that, burn all year, bad enough when cold as it is the smokiest around, but when people are outside thats whats killing us, that and blocking the highway with smoke.

yep, one of the reasons among others that i got rid of my wood burning furnace is the plums of smoke. I had new neighbors build a new house right nest door. I heard some comments when they didnt think I was listning about the smell. Now I firmly believe that I was here first and you dont move next to the dumo and ##### about the smell, and all that. but I was worried that at some point and time I would have problems with the township and wanted to avoid that. It was a smokey dude. There are 4 of us in the area that burn wood, and every day more come on board. I know in my heart that sooner or later we are all going to have restrictions on wood burning. I for one have seen and know people that have OWB, and they are filthy discusting messes. I know they can build cleaner boilers and people can do things to minamize the smoke and clean up around the unit itself. Im not one to tell somebody how they should maintain their property or how they have to heat their house, but if they dont clean up their act it will effect all of us.

 

[hanko]

I will post a photo later on showing an OWB and the surounding area

 

[Tazman1602]

What is the problem?
You have 7 years to stop blowing smoke on your neighbor. They want a low polluting stove, a decent setback from property lines, and safe smoke stack.
Seems reasonable to me.

HMMM. I got news.............it is NOT reasonable. NO reason any government should dictate to us what we can burn to heat our homes with.

Do you *Really* believe the big oil and gas companies have nothing to do with this kind of stuff? I live in Northern Michigan and if not for wood heat I"d have to walk away from my home of over 20 years and, personally, I"m not about to do that without a fight.

Propane over $3/gallon up here which means it would cost me around $5K to heat my home if that's all I had to rely on. With wood it's under $1K........

Maybe we should outlaw cars that don't get at least 50mpg. Then we'd all have to take out new mortgages to pay the $50K the dang cars would cost.

Nothing personal meant here, but where I live people are darn sick and tired of being told what they can and can't do in their personal lives on their own property.

Just my $.001 worth.............:chainsawguy:

 

[irishcountry]

Amen Tazman!! I agree with some of the others and I understand having some very common sense things you should not be able to do and like I mentioned no reason the OWB companies shouldn't make more and more efficient units but it seems to be OK for the government, large corporations, ect. to do almost whatever they want and the little guys get the screw put down on them!! I know that a couple of people can ruin it for everyone but why is it not like that in big business one can polute like crazy but it doesn't ruin anything for the other big businesses!! Like I said if the special on Asarrco re-airs on CNN do yourself a favor and watch it, it will put all the rest of what us little guys are doing in prospective. No doubt once very restricitve regulations are put on OWB's regular woodburners catalytic or not will not be far behind then what is the option PETROLEUM or electric that is still largely generated from PETROLEUM. It is sickening what freedoms we do lose by the year maybe its always been this way and is just a matter of perception but it is going to get worse and worse till this stuff effects every single person that is about the only way people will stand together and fight back!! Like Tazman said what if they did ban all cars that didn't get 50mpg I would guess people then might pay attention!!

 

[Tesen]

The crux of the problem is not telling you what you can and cannot do; it is about protecting other people's rights to have clean air around them (within reason). If your OWB is smoking out the neighbor’s house, then your OWB has become a public nuisance. Yes I know this is a slippery slope to be walking. I burn with wood and I refuse to give up my wood burner, least the government pay for my house to stay at 72F – 74F all winter long but at the same time, I refuse to be disrespectful to my neighbor’s and smoke them out of their house. I have access to free coal, just requires me to take a pickup down and get it loaded. But the stuff is so nasty, that it smokes badly and will leave a smoke haze across the neighborhood. Using this coal costs me less money and time, then harvesting my own firewood, so I save $$$, but I refuse to use it. Why? 1) It is disrespectful, my neighbors maybe can smell my wood burning, but the smoke is so very little, my exhaust fan disperses it quickly and high in to the air. The coal smoke just hangs… 2) There is enough negative press about smoking furnaces and OWB’s without (forgive me) adding fuel to the fire. 3) It is nice to be able to walk outside, take a deep breath in without coal smoke filling my lungs.

What needs to happen, is the EPA needs to work with manufacturers to improve the combustion process inside the OWB’s to produce cleaner exhaust. When there are a few OWB’s on the market, the EPA/state needs to offer incentive (i.e. money) for existing OWB owners to upgrade to the newer units. Maybe with free trade in for the new OWB; I think it only fair, if the general public wants the OWB’s regulated, they fork the money over through taxes to help existing owners replace their older units.

 

[Farmerjon]

My house sits in the middle of our 40 acres. Trees on three sides of us. I am one of the guys that burns his OWB all year as it heats our hot water also. I burn slab wood pine for summer wood. Usually it will burn once a day and I don't stoke it full like winter time. We cook and work in our yard daily. Most of the stacks (mine included) are shorter than what we are used to and it puts the smoke closer to the ground. Some guy wires and a 10' stack would greatly eliminate any and all problems.

 

[django]

I agree with the slippery slope comment and many other observations so far, but I still cant see the point in regulating stoves that are hundreds of feet from anybody. I have a real problem with the Ohio EPA telling me I can't have the stove smoking up my own house. Notice that the regs don't say that the stove has to be 200' from your neighbor, they say from A PROPERTY LINE.
My property borders nothingbut empty fields. I have a granary (building) within 150' that is over 50' tall. Notice the regs don't say INHABITED building they only state a building. The Vermont regs are much more sensible than this. Also, the federal EPA regs on outdoor stoves upper limit the PP/MBTU
to .6lb/hr. The Ohio regs start at .44lb and drop to .32 or 1/2 what the fed allows. Why? I have said this before, but this has to be understood completely to grasp what they are trying to do:
200 feet from a property line requires a minimum lot size of FOUR ACRES.
This "setbak" requirement will eliminate a very large percentage of current owners from using thier stove at all.
This topic could go on forever, but the thing is, if you bought and installed your stove legally, broke no zoning laws or then current EPA regs you have the right to operate your stove, or be justly compensated for the loss of using it. Grandfathering in existing installations should be mandatory.
I also find it interesting that the language for these regs uses the term "open burning", Actually ,open burning is illegal in the entire state of Ohio. So now if they consider a OWB to be "open burning" that will be somewhat hard to prove, but I think they could do it.