Bar and Chain Craze

[nikb47]

I am really liking the stihl RSLHK, half skip square ground. Been running it on my MS361 with 25" bar on fir and other soft woods. Thought about throwing it on th 044 but it's pulling the full comp RS pretty well in my opinion.

 

[redbull660]

I just wonder if half skip isn't even faster than full comp - two cutters then a skip/empty DL then two cutters. hmm im gonna count them up on 36" chains.

 

[RedFir Down]

There should be 15% less cutters on the half skip to full comp chain.

 

[Trx250r180]

I just wonder if half skip isn't even faster than full comp - two cutters then a skip/empty DL then two cutters. hmm im gonna count them up on 36" chains.

It all depends what you are cutting ,what works fast in oak ,may not work fast in fir for an example

 

[redbull660]

these are all 36" 114DL chains from the factory
# of cutters
Rapid Micro Full Skip - 38
Rapid Super Full Skip - 38
sq grd. full skip - 38

RS 050 - 57
RS 063 - 57
RM 050 - 57

RSLH (sq gr half skip) - 45 on this one but it depends on how you finish the chain.

45 would = two cutters, open dl, two cutters, open dl, one cutter, open dl, open dl, two cutters, open dl, two cutters. so one set would be full skip + open dl. so kinda weird. (full skip = cutter, open dl, cutter, open dl and so on)

46 would = two cutters, open dl, two cutters, open dl, two cutters, two cutters, open dl, two cutters. so one set would be full comp.

obviously based on what we've seen full comp being faster. I'd prefer the 46 method.


To me half skip seems ideal - two cutters (left and right) to do work, then an open DL to clear the chips, then two cutters.

vs

full skip - left cutter, open DL clear chip, right cutter, open dl clears chip. Just not enough cutters doing work.

anyway...all speculation until we try it

 

[Deets066]

Yes, but if full skip holds rpm better in the wood, you could use a larger sprocket then what would be faster? Full comp 7 pin or full skip 8 or 9 pin.

 

[Deets066]

I run a 32" full skip square with 9 pin on the 066

 

[MustangMike]

You are making it very clear there is more than one way to skin a cat! I guess whatever works for your saw, the bar length you need, and the wood you are cutting.

 

[MasterMech]

your welcome.

yeah im trying to get my hands on some RSL (sq. grd. full comp) in 36" 050. Got the half skip version already and a new full skip for the next test. And I fully agree full comp sq. grd. would be faster. You can see that just by going off RSLF being faster than RSF. But half skip might eat their lunch? we shall see!?!?

nearly impossible to find a 20" wide nose. I just couldn't find one. I could find a 25" wide nose in 063 but not a narrow nose in 063. I could find a narrow nose 050 but not a wide nose. Only way to be fair is to use the same chain. Never even seen a wide nose 28". And since stihl stopped making them in 2014. I doubt i will. I got the last 30" wide nose from any distributor or stihl hdqtr's. So i guess they aren't that popular.

I have a 20" wide-nose ES in .050" Love that bar. Is it worth the shipping to test?

 

[imagineero]

This sort of testing only tells part of the story, there are so many variables. Wood type is hugely variable, but the real leveller is sharpening. Proper sharpening can take any chain to the limits of the powerhead, so a full skip can cut just as fast as full comp sharpened right, and be less work to sharpen too. Semi chisel can be sharpened to be not far behind full chisel, and a semi chisel full skip setup is a great combo in less than ideal cutting conditions. The question of what's quickest out of the box in one wood type only is pretty straightforward. Nice to see the difference between wide and narrow nose bars. Wide nose bars last longer before flogging out based on my experience also. Square ground is a whole other story. FWIW, RSLFK square ground (poorly, at the factory!) at 10 degrees, full skip, noticeably outcuts full chisel round ground sharpened at 25 or 30 degrees even when very sharp and with rakers done.

How are you planning to cut/splice the RD? I've got an RDR I'd like to make into a skip chain, not sure what chassis it's on. That's a lot of tie straps ($$$)

 

[redbull660]

hmm. well in a 17sec cut if the advantage is 6% than the 20 wide should be like 16.0. Only 1 sec difference. I don't know if that is worth the shipping. Plus im sure once I used it, then I'd be begging you to sell it to me! lol

I have a 20" wide-nose ES in .050" Love that bar. Is it worth the shipping to test?

 

[redbull660]

RD half skip - I took out the tie strap at every 4 DL's. I'll fill in the spaces with a open DL. See pic. Tie straps aren't cheap, nor are DL's. (waiting on the DL's). But the time it took to take the 36" RD full comp chain apart. And now the Time to put it back together. My wife thinks I'm nuts. LOL

pic of half skip sq. ground from factory for reference -

This sort of testing only tells part of the story, there are so many variables. Wood type is hugely variable, but the real leveller is sharpening. Proper sharpening can take any chain to the limits of the powerhead, so a full skip can cut just as fast as full comp sharpened right, and be less work to sharpen too. Semi chisel can be sharpened to be not far behind full chisel, and a semi chisel full skip setup is a great combo in less than ideal cutting conditions. The question of what's quickest out of the box in one wood type only is pretty straightforward. Nice to see the difference between wide and narrow nose bars. Wide nose bars last longer before flogging out based on my experience also. Square ground is a whole other story. FWIW, RSLFK square ground (poorly, at the factory!) at 10 degrees, full skip, noticeably outcuts full chisel round ground sharpened at 25 or 30 degrees even when very sharp and with rakers done.

How are you planning to cut/splice the RD? I've got an RDR I'd like to make into a skip chain, not sure what chassis it's on. That's a lot of tie straps ($$$)

 

[big t double]

..... My wife thinks I'm nuts. LOL

And she would be correct. the total bar looks a lot nicer in person

 

[imagineero]

do you know if the drive links are specific to that chain, or can you sub in drive links from another skip chain (stihl of course)?

 

[imagineero]

I've never had any luck re-using the tie strap, there's never enough rivet left on it to re-spin it. I've got a couple bags of tie straps leftover from old rolls kicking around so it might not be too bad. Roll chain adds up to about 33c/link. I don't think I've got any full skip left though, I stopped buying it now that they only do 25' rolls, and only the RSLFK set up for milling at 10*.

 

[Trx250r180]

Yes, but if full skip holds rpm better in the wood, you could use a larger sprocket then what would be faster? Full comp 7 pin or full skip 8 or 9 pin.

I tried an 8 tooth on my 660 vs a 7 tooth ,it was slower in what i was cutting ,my saw is ported so it has more chainspeed from that alone ,when i put the 8 tooth on it was spinning too fast maybe is all i can come up with ,not allowing the teeth to bite into the wood as hard is all i can come up with ,this was in about a 2 ft across round of fir ,i run 7 on everything now ,i get the same results milling ,if i run the saw 2/3 throttle instead of wide open ,it is much smoother and cuts faster

 

[redbull660]

do you know if the drive links are specific to that chain, or can you sub in drive links from another skip chain (stihl of course)?

 

[Deets066]

I tried an 8 tooth on my 660 vs a 7 tooth ,it was slower in what i was cutting ,my saw is ported so it has more chainspeed from that alone ,when i put the 8 tooth on it was spinning too fast maybe is all i can come up with ,not allowing the teeth to bite into the wood as hard is all i can come up with ,this was in about a 2 ft across round of fir ,i run 7 on everything now ,i get the same results milling ,if i run the saw 2/3 throttle instead of wide open ,it is much smoother and cuts faster

I think that is one of the craziest things I've ever heard. Why get a ported saw if your only going to use 2/3 throttle? No wonder a 7 pin works better for you. But if that's how you like to run your saw, more power to ya.

 

[hseII]

In hardwoods you have lots of little chips. They don't seem to have as many problems clearing. I don't have access to any 30" plus pine to try it in. I have used full comp on a 41" and 48" bars and not had problems with chips. On 20-24" full comp has beaten skip with new chains or filed/ground by 5-10%.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong mister, but we throw big chips round here

 

[SawTroll]

I tried an 8 tooth on my 660 vs a 7 tooth ,it was slower in what i was cutting ,my saw is ported so it has more chainspeed from that alone ,when i put the 8 tooth on it was spinning too fast maybe is all i can come up with ,not allowing the teeth to bite into the wood as hard is all i can come up with ,this was in about a 2 ft across round of fir ,i run 7 on everything now ,i get the same results milling ,if i run the saw 2/3 throttle instead of wide open ,it is much smoother and cuts faster

Hmm - that sounds like an odd theory - the common reason for a larger sprocket not working well is that there will be less torque on the chain (and more friction as long as the chain speed is higher), so it drags the rpm of the saw down too much.

Anyway - running the saw at partial throttle is bad for the saw, as it will tend to run lean.