Sounds like good advice I can take
Barber chair
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
This has been my reasoning too. The downside being that if I misjudge the angle then I'm stuck with less leverage for wedging, and less depth for the wedges too. I guess the obvious solution is to get better at judging lean, so I'll be working on that.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Bitzer got me thinking about the forces involved with regard to the depth of the face cut, so I drew another picture. LolMaybe Marshy could do the math for us on 1/3 face as opposed to a 50% face, assuming the tree was perfectly balanced.
51%...what do you mean? 50% is COG
In a perfect world
In a perfect world
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
51% chance of the tree setting back on saw bar? Lol
Aaaaahhhhaaaha
Something like that John
I don't mess with that mainly because the wood is ethier very big or small. Big trees, that's an awful lot of extra cutting on a maybe,
I make a judgment on lean. I take 5 min between gas tanks and walk around and plan my next tank. It's like a Chinese jigsaw puzzle.
The only times I do deep undercuts is to save me from having to set a springboard or cutting a window and sometimes it's easier to set a board or cut a window on large diameter. Weigh up my opinions ahead of time.
Other than that, I cut huge undercuts on stubbys if I can reach ...like 70% - 80% and they just flop over. they are commenly 4' - 6' and may have snapped off at 10 ft I'll fall it for safety.
Other than that, I cut huge undercuts on stubbys if I can reach ...like 70% - 80% and they just flop over. they are commenly 4' - 6' and may have snapped off at 10 ft I'll fall it for safety.
woodsplitta
ArboristSite Member
Gypo, after all the trees you've cut its good to hear you still chuckle after they crash to the ground.
Once the center of gravity of the tree gets past the imaginary vertical plane of the hinge it won't take any additional wedging. The shallower face means you'll have to more the tree further to get it past that hinge so gravity can take over. Regardless of how deep the face is you'll have to move the same weight, just different distances.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
I was just wondering how much a deeper uncut changes the dispersal of weight on the intended direction of fall.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Ive noticed and any stubbies I cut, I just backcut them with no UC, as they have no head weight to cause chairing or directional loss of control. Once sawn 98% thru, I simply push them over by hand, but I wouldnt do that to the much larger trees like you cut.
Sorry, not following what you are getting at.
Its misleading to say it's the same weigh because you have just lost two advantages
One with the distribution of weigh and the other by sortening your point of leverage to pivot point
* Edit I'm saying if it were to sit back in either case the 25% deeper undercut will sit back on a steeper angle.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Lol, my question was so elementry, even I became confused.
I see the answer now. If the tree weighed 10,000# and was relatively balanced on the stump and a 1/3 face was sawn in, then 3 thousand, 3hundred and 33 pounds would be in front of the hinge and the balance of the weight would be behind the hinge, thus making the tree less susceptable to falling in the intended direction, given there was no dutchman. So wedges would be needed unless a good wind came along.
hseII
Addicted to ArboristSite
As horrible as this sounds, unless buying from Madsen's, buy from Amazon: Amazon has the best price.
I'm all about supporting local, but there are no logging stores around here I am aware of: you can buy all the Thursday "Boot" Co brand shoes you want, but anything worth owning & working must be ordered off the entertube.
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hseII
Addicted to ArboristSite
Provided there aren't any of those dreaded "holding limbs."
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I think I agree with the first part. I'd have to prove to myself the edit part. Until then, enjoy this little saw.
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Fast saw, is it stock? From here it looks like a tweeker.
hseII
Addicted to ArboristSite
The hinge is moved closer to the back of the tree/180 From the intended lay with the deeper face, & therefore you have a shorter distance from the hinge to the back to lift the tree off the backcut/remaining supporting section of the stump.
You will have to potentially use a shorter, quicker tapering wedge, thereby increasing the resistance, & then needed force, to lift the tree "x" inches off the back cut to change the angle of the COG enough for The tree to fall over.
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It's got a bunch of bananas in it.
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