Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[sean donato]

Not true. Most people are unwilling to spend more for a better product. That is why some people buy Black and Decker instead of Bosch or Milwaukee. Moreover, most people do not have the means to determine what product is best. That includes operators of heavy equipment. And I can guarantee that there are differences in composition between all of the products you mentioned, so there will be finite differences in performance. Ultimately, you don't really know which is best. The differences might be small, but they are there. Specific to Amsoil, it has been shown to have a higher level of anti-wear additives, detergents and a higher base number than the oils made by the big manufacturers. It also has lower volatility loss, as shown by the Noack tests. Although engine use is not considered extreme pressure, Amsoil performs better in both the Timken test and the 4-ball wear test, indicating it has better lubricity under extreme pressure conditions. I find it hard to believe that an oil which provides better wear protection under EP conditions would not also provide better wear protection under less severe conditions.

Heavy equipment operators don't change their oil, the mechanics do. Sending out samples for testing is 100% standard practice for any company that's concerned about getting the longest life out of their engines/equipment. If amsoil was so wonderful it would be the standard oil chosen by every company out there. It's not, and not even close.
Your though of an engine running 24/7 being easier on oil in equipment is bs too, your pickup has never seen the constant load and duty cycle equipment sees for hours a day. Every day. The closest thing you could hope to achieve this is find the longest steepest hill and hook full payload to your truck and hold it flat to the floor every day for 8+ hours. It wouldn't make it 2 years before it blew up. Shite generators I used to take care of would run at 80%+ load everyday for years on end, shut down for periodic maintenance and oil changes and be off running again. Oil samples taken every 250 hours and sent out for lab testing. You're experiences have been annicdotal, and have zero evidence that you're running a superior product to any other actual oil manufacturer out there.

 

[Hermio]

100% true, and the industry has proven it 1,000,000 over, you just refuse to admit it.

I have worked in industry for almost 50 years, and I know industry buying habits very well. Your faith in the competence of industry buyers is misplaced.

 

[Hermio]

Heavy equipment operators don't change their oil, the mechanics do. Sending out samples for testing is 100% standard practice for any company that's concerned about getting the longest life out of their engines/equipment. If amsoil was so wonderful it would be the standard oil chosen by every company out there. It's not, and not even close.
Your though of an engine running 24/7 being easier on oil in equipment is bs too, your pickup has never seen the constant load and duty cycle equipment sees for hours a day. Every day. The closest thing you could hope to achieve this is find the longest steepest hill and hook full payload to your truck and hold it flat to the floor every day for 8+ hours. It wouldn't make it 2 years before it blew up. Shite generators I used to take care of would run at 80%+ load everyday for years on end, shut down for periodic maintenance and oil changes and be off running again. Oil samples taken every 250 hours and sent out for lab testing. You're experiences have been annicdotal, and have zero evidence that you're running a superior product to any other actual oil manufacturer out there.

The wear tests and NOACK volatility tests do prove superiority. And, as I mentioned, I know of a diesel mechanic who keeps about 48 school busses running, but uses Amsoil on all his personal vehicles. The school system he works for will not cough up the bucks for Amsoil, but that is what he would use in them if they let him. I agree that the duty cycle of heavy equipment is greater than that on a pickup truck, and may require more frequent oil changes. Also, heavy duty engines are built better than those used in pickups, with much higher price tags to go along with that. I have heard that a 400 Hp CAT engine goes for over $25000. And yes, my truck engine would not last 2 years under constant full load use, no matter what oil was used or how often it was changed. Two years at 8 hours per day at say, 60 miles per hour would amount to over 350,000 miles. BTW, I also own a tree farm, and my tractor runs at close to full load when I am bush hogging. I use Amsoil diesel 15W40 in it, and change oil every 175 hours. It does not even get black by then.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I wish all the oil manufacturers would use a bright blue or green dye. Too often I used to look into a jug and wonder if I remembered to put the oil in because there wasn't enough of a color difference to see and the light filtering through a red plastic jug made the contents look pinkish. At one point, I went to the effort to try to find a petroleum dye that I could use. Gave up on that pretty quickly.

 

[Hermio]

I wish all the oil manufacturers would use a bright blue or green dye. Too often I used to look into a jug and wonder if I remembered to put the oil in because there wasn't enough of a color difference to see and the light filtering through a red plastic jug made the contents look pinkish. At one point, I went to the effort to try to find a petroleum dye that I could use. Gave up on that pretty quickly.

Thank you for getting the thread back on track! I confess to being among the guilty for getting it off track!

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

These guys have operating costs calculated and tracked down to the penny. If it cost less to go with longer oil change intervals with a more expensive oil, that's what they'd do.

Personally, I looked into Amsoil. I'd have to run it 4x longer just to break even vs. what I use. I'm a big fan of cheap clean oil being better than dirty expensive oil, so I'll stick with my cheap stuff and change it frequently.

Getting even more off topic here but a lot of the store brand oils are just relabled jugs of the more expensive stuff. Obviously Walmart and O'Reilly don't have their own refineries. Some of the guys at BITOG are so autistic that they track who makes what and where.
Tl; dr, I just run O'Reilly synth in everything. Then again my commute is about five minutes from home and I probably put 5k-7k a year on my truck.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

If amsoil was so wonderful it would be the standard oil chosen by every company out there.

Well, hang on a second here. What if Amsoil simply can't compete in terms of pricing or volume?

 

[OM617YOTA]

Getting even more off topic here but a lot of the store brand oils are just relabled jugs of the more expensive stuff. Obviously Walmart and O'Reilly don't have their own refineries. Some of the guys at BITOG are so autistic that they track who makes what and where.
Tl; dr, I just run O'Reilly synth in everything. Then again my commute is about five minutes from home and I probably put 5k-7k a year on my truck.

Not surprised at all. There's a reason I buy oil cheap and stack it deep, and don't pay much attention to what the brand is.

 

[Chevboy0167]

@Haywire Haywood

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2605838127...sELh7wK2KCsY4VaGaNzuhom/c=|tkp:Bk9SR6TA4aWfZA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2623528774...v8i7taH4cV56oIYvBpGMhH4SQ=|tkp:Bk9SR6LA4aWfZA

 

[Haywire Haywood]

From the recommended dosage they list (2lbs for 1000 barrels or 55000 gallons), looks like a couple drops per gallon would be plenty. It's a tiny amount. Hmmmm I sent them a message asking how much to add to a quart of 2 stroke oil. I found that dye on amazon and also on their homepage. Free shipping also.

Edit.. they got back with me in minutes on a sunday... 1oz will treat 150 gallons of 2 stroke oil.

 

[OM617YOTA]

The wear tests and NOACK volatility tests do prove superiority.

There's a lot more that goes into deciding the best oil for an application than these lab tests. Oil isn't a survival of the fittest game, it's survival of the good enough.

It could be as simple as the equipment manufacturer requires xyz oil change intervals to maintain warranty. Using a super deep duper oil that'll go 5x that oil change interval is purely wasted money. The operator doesn't want the fittest oil, they want good enough.

A lot of manufacturers require API certified oil. From what I gather, many Amsoil products don't have API cert, which woul disqualify them from the very start.

Just two reasons off the top of my head.

 

[Lionsfan]

The wear tests and NOACK volatility tests do prove superiority. And, as I mentioned, I know of a diesel mechanic who keeps about 48 school busses running, but uses Amsoil on all his personal vehicles. The school system he works for will not cough up the bucks for Amsoil, but that is what he would use in them if they let him. I agree that the duty cycle of heavy equipment is greater than that on a pickup truck, and may require more frequent oil changes. Also, heavy duty engines are built better than those used in pickups, with much higher price tags to go along with that. I have heard that a 400 Hp CAT engine goes for over $25000. And yes, my truck engine would not last 2 years under constant full load use, no matter what oil was used or how often it was changed. Two years at 8 hours per day at say, 60 miles per hour would amount to over 350,000 miles. BTW, I also own a tree farm, and my tractor runs at close to full load when I am bush hogging. I use Amsoil diesel 15W40 in it, and change oil every 175 hours. It does not even get black by then.

We run 250 hour oil change intervals on our tractors and gensets running conventional 30 wt. Rotella. 80% would be an average load percentage for our gensets, and we've had several go over 30,000 hours with no mechanical failures.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I ordered 1/4 oz of that dye to play around with. Need a dropper of some kind to dispense it.

 

[cookies]

I ordered 1/4 oz of that dye to play around with. Need a dropper of some kind to dispense it.

Dip the eye of a large sewing needle in the dye for a fraction of a drop

 

[Hermio]

There's a lot more that goes into deciding the best oil for an application than these lab tests. Oil isn't a survival of the fittest game, it's survival of the good enough.

It could be as simple as the equipment manufacturer requires xyz oil change intervals to maintain warranty. Using a super deep duper oil that'll go 5x that oil change interval is purely wasted money. The operator doesn't want the fittest oil, they want good enough.

A lot of manufacturers require API certified oil. From what I gather, many Amsoil products don't have API cert, which woul disqualify them from the very start.

Just two reasons off the top of my head.

I do not think that is true. The label on Amsoil bottles suggests they are certified.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I do not think that is true. The label on Amsoil bottles suggests they are certified.

Shrug. The point was to illustrate that oil specs are only one facet of what goes into choosing the best oil for a particular application.

 

[Hermio]

We run 250 hour oil change intervals on our tractors and gensets running conventional 30 wt. Rotella. 80% would be an average load percentage for our gensets, and we've had several go over 30,000 hours with no mechanical failures.

Good to know. It takes me several years to get to even 175 hours, so I suspect it is best that I don't go too long. My tractor was purchased new in 2015 and it is just now getting to about 350 hours. It sits unused for weeks at a time. When I use it, it gets used hard.

 

[Hermio]

It has been claimed that the big oil companies do not sell their best base oil to independent blenders such as Amsoil, Royal Purple, Lucas oil, etc. I did some digging on several fora in addition to this one and found that several people have claimed that Amsoil uses ExxonMobil base oil and Lubrizol additives. While I cannot verify that this is true, I decided to check out the ExxonMobil web site to see what they say about selling base oils. Well, it turns out they are eager to sell whatever base oil their customers need and are committed to the success of the many independent blenders they serve, even going so far as to make custom base stock and aid in formulation. You can see how eager they are on this web page: https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/products/synthetic-base-stocks
So, I think the claim that the independents cannot get the best base stocks is bogus. Selling top quality base stocks is good business, especially since there are so many independent blenders. If you go to the Industry Net website and enter lubricants, you will find literally hundreds of companies, and dozens of them are independent blenders. They form a significant market for base oils at a premium price.

 

[diver64]

Would make perfect sense why he shills for project farm all the time.

I find his down and dirty tests for hand tools invaluable.

 

[Hermio]

I find his down and dirty tests for hand tools invaluable.

Quite frankly, I think those who disparage Project Farm do not have much of a technical background. Todd devises tests that are meaningful in the real world, using ingenious techniques. Some seem to think that only testing done by large companies with fancy laboratories are valid. I would remind them that the electric light bulb was invented by Edison in a small lab after extensive trial and error; the telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell using very rudimentary equipment; Robert Goddard invented the liquid fueled rocket using equipment he had at his home; the Wright Brothers invented the first successful airplane using materials they had on hand from a bicycle repair shop plus a primitive engine. There are countless example of such things in history. And no, I am not saying Todd is as brilliant as Edison or similar people. I am just pointing out that meaningful results can often be obtained with simple equipment if a person is ingenious enough. I find that most of what Todd does is useful and technically sound. Ironically, I don't think his 2-cycle oil tests were appropriately done. Not because his test apparatus was bad, but because he used a 4:1 gasoline to oil ratio, I guess to get easy results in terms of carbon deposits or removal thereof. But 4:1 is just too far from any recommended mixture ratio to be useful, in my opinion. I would like to see him do testing at 40 or 50:1.