Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[bwalker]

Perhaps you should repeat it, as I do not remember the area of your degree. And perhaps you should learn to spell and punctuate correctly so you come across a bit better than a 2nd grader. I think my list of publications are ample proof of my engineering background. You seem to have a bit of engineering envy. That is no doubt why you feel compelled to denigrate engineers.

No, I will not repeat due to your laziness.
No, I will not proof read every post I make. This is a chainsaw site, not a college English class.
Your back around doesn't impress me either. Mostly because you have an inability to understand simple mechanical concepts.
I am not envious of engineers at all. I would not want their job in most cases.
The number of good engineers is very small. Many are about useless. That's just how it is.

 

[bwalker]

Quite frankly, I think those who disparage Project Farm do not have much of a technical background. Todd devises tests that are meaningful in the real world, using ingenious techniques. Some seem to think that only testing done by large companies with fancy laboratories are valid. I would remind them that the electric light bulb was invented by Edison in a small lab after extensive trial and error; the telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell using very rudimentary equipment; Robert Goddard invented the liquid fueled rocket using equipment he had at his home; the Wright Brothers invented the first successful airplane using materials they had on hand from a bicycle repair shop plus a primitive engine. There are countless example of such things in history. And no, I am not saying Todd is as brilliant as Edison or similar people. I am just pointing out that meaningful results can often be obtained with simple equipment if a person is ingenious enough. I find that most of what Todd does is useful and technically sound. Ironically, I don't think his 2-cycle oil tests were appropriately done. Not because his test apparatus was bad, but because he used a 4:1 gasoline to oil ratio, I guess to get easy results in terms of carbon deposits or removal thereof. But 4:1 is just too far from any recommended mixture ratio to be useful, in my opinion. I would like to see him do testing at 40 or 50:1.

Most of his motor related or oil related tests are trash.
And he isn't in the same league as the guys you mentioned. Mostly because the methods he comes up with are either garbage or are poor copies of industry standard tests.

 

[bwalker]

He doesn't get it, never will. Big difference between 3 gallons and 20+ going into the crankcase, occasionally using a vehicle vs working a machine 3 shifts 360 days a year. Companies figured out who makes the best lubes years ago. Amsoil never was or will be on any major job site, coal mine, quarry etc.

That's exactly right.

 

[bwalker]

The wear tests and NOACK volatility tests do prove superiority. And, as I mentioned, I know of a diesel mechanic who keeps about 48 school busses running, but uses Amsoil on all his personal vehicles. The school system he works for will not cough up the bucks for Amsoil, but that is what he would use in them if they let him. I agree that the duty cycle of heavy equipment is greater than that on a pickup truck, and may require more frequent oil changes. Also, heavy duty engines are built better than those used in pickups, with much higher price tags to go along with that. I have heard that a 400 Hp CAT engine goes for over $25000. And yes, my truck engine would not last 2 years under constant full load use, no matter what oil was used or how often it was changed. Two years at 8 hours per day at say, 60 miles per hour would amount to over 350,000 miles. BTW, I also own a tree farm, and my tractor runs at close to full load when I am bush hogging. I use Amsoil diesel 15W40 in it, and change oil every 175 hours. It does not even get black by then.

If a diesel oil isnt turning black its not working properly. The additive package be design holds soot in suspension so it doesn't lay down as deposits.
I have never seen a diesel oil that didn't turn black almost immediately.

 

[bwalker]

The wear tests and NOACK volatility tests do prove superiority. And, as I mentioned, I know of a diesel mechanic who keeps about 48 school busses running, but uses Amsoil on all his personal vehicles. The school system he works for will not cough up the bucks for Amsoil, but that is what he would use in them if they let him. I agree that the duty cycle of heavy equipment is greater than that on a pickup truck, and may require more frequent oil changes. Also, heavy duty engines are built better than those used in pickups, with much higher price tags to go along with that. I have heard that a 400 Hp CAT engine goes for over $25000. And yes, my truck engine would not last 2 years under constant full load use, no matter what oil was used or how often it was changed. Two years at 8 hours per day at say, 60 miles per hour would amount to over 350,000 miles. BTW, I also own a tree farm, and my tractor runs at close to full load when I am bush hogging. I use Amsoil diesel 15W40 in it, and change oil every 175 hours. It does not even get black by then.

What wear tests? Maybe those BS, not industry standard ball tests?
You have sure swallowed the marketing hook, line and sinker.

 

[Hermio]

No, I will not repeat due to your laziness.
No, I will not proof read every post I make. This is a chainsaw site, not a college English class.
Your back around doesn't impress me either. Mostly because you have an inability to understand simple mechanical concepts.
I am not envious of engineers at all. I would not want their job in most cases.
The number of good engineers is very small. Many are about useless. That's just how it is.

I worked for a process equipment manufacturer for 25 years before becoming a consultant. I understand certain mechanical concepts far better than you do. Can you calculate stresses and resonant frequencies? I suspect not. Your lack of scientific knowledge is illustrated by your continued insistence that film strength equals viscosity. Your disdain for engineers is really a cover-up because you do not have the talent to be one, and you are bitter with envy. And bear in mind that every object you own was designed by engineers, including whatever vehicles or chainsaws you own. So was the computer you use to post your drivel.

 

[Hermio]

If a diesel oil isnt turning black its not working properly. The additive package be design holds soot in suspension so it doesn't lay down as deposits.
I have never seen a diesel oil that didn't turn black almost immediately.

BS. The oil turned black almost immediately in my Chevy Suburban and the Ford F-250 with the infamous 6.0 liter diesel. It does not turn black with my current F-350 with the 6.7 liter Ford-built diesel. Same oil, different engine. What that says to me is that the current Ford engine simply does not produce much soot.

 

[bwalker]

I worked for a process equipment manufacturer for 25 years before becoming a consultant. I understand certain mechanical concepts far better than you do. Can you calculate stresses and resonant frequencies? I suspect not. Your lack of scientific knowledge is illustrated by your continued insistence that film strength equals viscosity. Your disdain for engineers is really a cover-up because you do not have the talent to be one, and you are bitter with envy. And bear in mind that every object you own was designed by engineers, including whatever vehicles or chainsaws you own. So was the computer you use to post your drivel.

Within the parameters(IE hydro dynamic conditions) I mentioned viscosity is film strength.
If it makes you feel better to think your envied, have at it. The rest of us are just laughing at you.
BTW while newtonian mechanics might horn you up, but it's just plugging numbers into formulas or using an analysis program. It doesn't exactly take a genius to do this. In addition most engineering on a day to day basis doesn't require using such.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

If you tallied the amount of time, effort and energy and totaled it up from arguing on here, I think it would be easier and less time-consuming to just rebuild the damn saw when if ever it wears out from inferior oil ! How much money is saved by running some less expensive oils over many years? Prob enough to buy a piston or more.

The only oil I’ve come across on here that’s really been tested is Castro activ 2t at 25:1 by @rogue60. fc rated. Thousands of hours and a quick clean up and he put it back to work. Goes to show these posts are pointless - most oils are fine and you don’t need the shiniest most fancy stuff. That’s why I say find a decent brand you like the smell of. That’s more important imo.

 

[bwalker]

BS. The oil turned black almost immediately in my Chevy Suburban and the Ford F-250 with the infamous 6.0 liter diesel. It does not turn black with my current F-350 with the 6.7 liter Ford-built diesel. Same oil, different engine. What that says to me is that the current Ford engine simply does not produce much soot.

The current 6.7 probaly uses less EGR because it has a SCR catalyst, which reduces soot load. The 6.0 used lots of EGR recirculation and that old pre duramax GM diesel was just a dirty burning pile of junk.
That doesn't change the fact that diesel oil all turns black and it should if it's doing its job.

 

[bwalker]

The only oil I’ve come across on here that’s really been tested is Castro activ 2t at 25:1 by @rogue60. Get ready for it, and it’s… fc. Thousands of hours and a quick clean up and he put it back to work lol. Goes to show most oils are fine and you don’t need the shiniest most fancy stuff.

Is it FC? FC is pretty good oil BTW.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Is it FC? FC is pretty good oil BTW.

Sorry I pressed send without finishing the post. You were quick on the reply. Yeah fc

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I got to page 7 of you guys at each other expecting things to have settled down. That’s a lot of messages over something that really isn’t that important.

 

[bucketofguts]

I think any brand name oil with the proper ratings will do just fine. Good fresh gas. Not abusing your saw. Keeping it well tuned. Running a scary sharp chain. Good bar oil and your oiler working a good power saw should last a very long time. My chain saw tuner will tell you to uae one kind of oil. 90 non ethonol from a real gas station like BP or Shell. and sea foam. 43:1.He is 84 I think and looks 64. He raced stowmobiles to Championships on snow and asphalt dragstrips.He uses LUCAS SEMI-Synthetic Blend 2 stroke oil. My 2 cents.He is from the shores of the great lakes somwhere.

 

[Hermio]

Within the parameters(IE hydro dynamic conditions) I mentioned viscosity is film strength.
If it makes you feel better to think your envied, have at it. The rest of us are just laughing at you.
BTW while newtonian mechanics might horn you up, but it's just plugging numbers into formulas or using an analysis program. It doesn't exactly take a genius to do this. In addition most engineering on a day to day basis doesn't require using such.

You are doubling down on your ignorance of fluid dynamics. Have you heard of dimensional analysis? All units of measure can be broken down into combinations of mass, length and time. Film strength has dimensions of mass/(length* time^2). Viscosity has dimensions of mass/(length*time). Viscosity and file strength are therefore as different as mass and acceleration or mass and height. And film strength is not even correlated necessarily as a function of viscosity. Today's 0W20 synthetic oils have a higher film strength than the straight 40 weight oils that were formulated 20-30 years ago. And it is odd that you think I am limited to Newtonian fluids. In my line of work, I get into non-Newtonian fluids all the time. Many follow the Herschel-Bulkley model (look it up). Some cannot be measured on a conventional viscometer due to large particulates in suspension (such as the case where lignocellulosic materials are being processed into biofuels). I have had to devise my own special apparatus to characterize the rheology of such materials, and I have published my methodology.

Yes, I am sure some on this forum laugh at me. I am sure some laugh at you privately, as I know many that have posted here have said good things about Amsoil on other fora. And I would say many do not like you, because they can see you are just a pompous troll and a miserable excuse for a human being. A decent human being would never wish death on another because of disagreements about oil, and then refuse to apologize as soon as possible if it was just a lapse of character.

 

[Hermio]

The current 6.7 probaly uses less EGR because it has a SCR catalyst, which reduces soot load. The 6.0 used lots of EGR recirculation and that old pre duramax GM diesel was just a dirty burning pile of junk.
That doesn't change the fact that diesel oil all turns black and it should if it's doing its job.

So you are saying maybe the EGR reduces soot enough so the oil does not turn black within 10,000 miles. That may be the case. But it clearly has nothing to do with the oil not doing its job, since the same oil dis turn black on other diesel engines I have owned.

 

[lone wolf]

The only oil I’ve come across on here that’s really been tested is Castro activ 2t at 25:1 by @rogue60. fc rated. Thousands of hours and a quick clean up and he put it back to work. Goes to show these posts are pointless - most oils are fine and you don’t need the shiniest most fancy stuff. That’s why I say find a decent brand you like the smell of. That’s more important imo.

That's right, you don't see a rash of complaints here how crap oil failed in their saws .

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

It has been claimed that the big oil companies do not sell their best base oil to independent blenders such as Amsoil, Royal Purple, Lucas oil, etc. I did some digging on several fora in addition to this one and found that several people have claimed that Amsoil uses ExxonMobil base oil and Lubrizol additives. While I cannot verify that this is true, I decided to check out the ExxonMobil web site to see what they say about selling base oils. Well, it turns out they are eager to sell whatever base oil their customers need and are committed to the success of the many independent blenders they serve, even going so far as to make custom base stock and aid in formulation. You can see how eager they are on this web page: https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/products/synthetic-base-stocks
So, I think the claim that the independents cannot get the best base stocks is bogus. Selling top quality base stocks is good business, especially since there are so many independent blenders. If you go to the Industry Net website and enter lubricants, you will find literally hundreds of companies, and dozens of them are independent blenders. They form a significant market for base oils at a premium price.

That might be true for lower end Amsoil products, but not of Signature Series oils, or Saber 2-stroke. There are different grades of Amsoil - not all of it is sky-high expensive. Just the top shelf stuff. It's expensive because it uses the best of everything.

I run my stuff HARD, whether it's my 2-stroke motorcycle, flying my paramotor, or running hand-held outdoor power equipment (OPE) - I have 2-stroke engines that are over 20 years old that still have over 100 PSI compression. My paramotor head temperatures kiss 400° on climb-out for a few minutes. I run Saber at 66:1 in the paramotor - 100:1 in everything else. The 2-stroke RD350 gets Dominator 2-stroke, since Saber is a little to heavy for the injection pump. Would be mixed at a higher ratio than is necessary anyway, so Dominator is fine for that application. 7k HARD miles - super hot idling in traffic, and frequent trips past the stock 7k RPM redline - on it since a complete overhaul, and the engine has the same compression as right after break-in.

On all my 2-stroke stuff, carbon buildup is almost nonexistent. Compared to other good synthetic oils I've run in the past, it is night and day different in cleanliness.

All my customers got Amsoil in both 2 and 4 stroke equipment. One customer had put almost 700 hours on a box-store rider, and when I tore the engine down to replace leaking gaskets, the pistons and cylinders looked virtually brand new. Perfect crosshatch pattern still visible in both cylinders, with no scuffing on pistons.

I could care less about advertisements. Real world stuff like this is what sold me. It's not that other oils won't work - I just want the best of the best in my engines, since I don't have the time anymore to be wrenching on my own stuff.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Here's what happens when you run cheap oil longer than you should in handheld, hot-running 4-stroke OPE:

 

[bwalker]

So you are saying maybe the EGR reduces soot enough so the oil does not turn black within 10,000 miles. That may be the case. But it clearly has nothing to do with the oil not doing its job, since the same oil dis turn black on other diesel engines I have owned.

More EGR recirc produces more soot in the oil.