Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[bwalker]

Yet that test does show which oil has a higher film strength. I think that is important for all lubrication purposes.

Perhaps we should mix grease with our fuel. Because film strength!

 

[montana59]

Back in my younger days I run a macio 490 and I would guarantee it was run harder than any of my saws. I run bel ray and never had no issues and that is what I run in my saws. Usually run between 40 to 50 on my mix. Still have the 61 rancher I bought back in 79 now just redone it. Everything looked decent but was down on compression. So I reckon what works for you use it.

 

[sean donato]

Aren't there tests that have been done with saws in the field?

I'm sure there have been, I wouldn't know where to find/look for test results for in field evaluations. I'm also not certain how you would keep any testing like that conclusive with all the variables.

 

[bwalker]

The 4 ball test is a ASTM test to measure the extreme pressure properties of grease. It has no relevancy to an internal combustion engine. The people that use the test to hawk 2 or 4 cycle cycle oils are clueless culls.

 

[bwalker]

I'm sure there have been, I wouldn't know where to find/look for test results for in field evaluations. I'm also not certain how you would keep any testing like that conclusive with all the variables.

Which is why we have the JASO FD certification tests.

 

[Husky77]

Coca cola isn't a petroleum product for starters.

And there was I thinking for years coaca cola was fb and Pepsi fd

 

[Hermio]

yet that test does not mimic any of the conditions found inside a 2 stroke engine. It's useless in this application.

Not useless. It clearly shows which oil has the higher film strength. That means it shows which one will result in the least wear. However, it does not allow quantitative prediction of the actual wear rate, as the conditions are quite different, as you say.

 

[Hermio]

The 4 ball test is a ASTM test to measure the extreme pressure properties of grease. It has no relevancy to an internal combustion engine. The people that use the test to hawk 2 or 4 cycle cycle oils are clueless culls.

Perfect example of you offering your opinion as fact.

 

[Hermio]

Perhaps we should mix grease with our fuel. Because film strength!

Flow is important, too.

 

[Hermio]

Rather, the opposite is true. High engine temperatures allow for greater engine efficiency and lower HC emissions at the expense of durability and increased NOX emissions.

Imagine you just burned fuel without converting any of its energy to mechanical work. Then you would have the highest exhaust temperature; I am guessing between 1700 and 2000F for gasoline in air. As you convert the combustion energy to mechanical work, you are removing the energy that can dissipate in the form of heat, causing the exhaust temperature to decrease. If you could convert 100% of the combustion energy to mechanical work, the exhaust would be at ambient temperature. Engineering thermodynamics 101.

 

[Hermio]

Fill out a hurt feelers report.
You want to throw around the fact you're an engineer, but based on your own comments ita pretty apparent you don't have even a rudimentary understanding of the subject.
I am not above approach. You think I have made a technical error in my comments I am happy to either prove your wrong or concede you are right.

You don't have a clue about how to evaluate test work done by others. And you make up stuff about Amsoil and Project farm with no data. And I don't "throw around" the fact that I am a chemical engineer. My engineering background is not relevant to much of what is discussed here, but it is relevant to some of it, and I mention it only when it is relevant.

 

[Hermio]

Some people are masters of making the simple hard. Use JASO FD oilnof your choice and stop obsessing.

I actually agree with that.

 

[Hermio]

The 4 ball test is completely meaningless in a two stroke, period. It represents no operating condition a two stroke is going to see. In addition any company saying it does is not reputable and is engaging in dirt ball marketing. It also isn't an industry standard test for two cycle oils.
What you are not considering is there are many more concerns than film strength in a two cycle or else we would lube them with a Sae 90w oil. Even better how about grease? Very high film strength! Truth is film strength hasn't been a concern in two cycle oils for 4+ decades.
The problem is a two cycle oil not only has to lubricate a motor, it also has to combust very cleanly, mix easily with gasoline, prevent corrosion and several other things.

By the way, Amsoil does not use the 4-ball test for its 2-cycle oils. That discussion was brought up for normal engine oils. And you seem to imply that only high viscosity oils and grease have high film strength. But today's 0W-20 oils have equal or greater film strength than the 10W-40 oils used on most pre-1990 vehicles. There is more to film strength than viscosity.

 

[Hermio]

Narrow molecular weight distribution is pretty meaningless in a two stroke.

Not true at all. With a wide MW distribution, the more volatile fractions flash off immediately, leaving less oil for lubrication. A narrow MW distribution is one of the reasons why synthetics can get by with a lower oil to fuel ratio.

 

[Hermio]

I am saying Amsoil doesn't have those test engines.. why would they? The don't make oil or additive packages. All they do is call up Lubrizol and tell them what they want to achieve. Lubrizol then sells them a package to be blended with a certain base oil package that is bought from one of the majors.
FWIW the engines used in the Jaso tests were formerly Suzuki and Honda.

How would you know whether Amsoil has or doesn't have those engines? Do you work there? And how would you know where they buy their raw materials or what relationship they have with Lubrizol? And don't tell me the big oil producers must have better products because they are bigger. They may have decided that the mass market is their target, with retail prices around $3-5/quart, as opposed to making a high-end product that goes for $8-10/quart. A similar case exists in high-end audio equipment. The most accurate home stereo equipment is not made by such names as Sony or Panasonic. rather, it is made by such companies as Martin-Logan, Audio Research, NAD, Sanders, Legacy and other brands you likely have never heard of. Systems made with these components range from $10,000 to over $100,000 for a home audio system. For oil, I am informed by my own experience in over 2 million miles of vehicle driving with Amsoil, typically changing oil every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. I have never worn an engine out, averaging about 250,000 miles per vehicle before I got rid of them for reasons unrelated to the core engine block.

 

[bwalker]

Perfect example of you offering your opinion as fact.

No, it is a fact the ASTM 4 ball test is ment for testing extreme pressure properties of greases, period.

 

[bwalker]

By the way, Amsoil does not use the 4-ball test for its 2-cycle oils. That discussion was brought up for normal engine oils. And you seem to imply that only high viscosity oils and grease have high film strength. But today's 0W-20 oils have equal or greater film strength than the 10W-40 oils used on most pre-1990 vehicles. There is more to film strength than viscosity.

They most certainly have in the past and there sellers often still do.

 

[bwalker]

Not true at all. With a wide MW distribution, the more volatile fractions flash off immediately, leaving less oil for lubrication. A narrow MW distribution is one of the reasons why synthetics can get by with a lower oil to fuel ratio.

This isn't 1960 with solvent refined base oils.. you are way out of your wheel house here.

 

[bwalker]

How would you know whether Amsoil has or doesn't have those engines? Do you work there? And how would you know where they buy their raw materials or what relationship they have with Lubrizol? And don't tell me the big oil producers must have better products because they are bigger. They may have decided that the mass market is their target, with retail prices around $3-5/quart, as opposed to making a high-end product that goes for $8-10/quart. A similar case exists in high-end audio equipment. The most accurate home stereo equipment is not made by such names as Sony or Panasonic. rather, it is made by such companies as Martin-Logan, Audio Research, NAD, Sanders, Legacy and other brands you likely have never heard of. Systems made with these components range from $10,000 to over $100,000 for a home audio system. For oil, I am informed by my own experience in over 2 million miles of vehicle driving with Amsoil, typically changing oil every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. I have never worn an engine out, averaging about 250,000 miles per vehicle before I got rid of them for reasons unrelated to the core engine block.

I've been to Amsoil facility in Superior, Wis as I use to live a few hours away. I will bet you money they don't have those test engines. I know what they do blending wise because that's what all blenders do that can't produce their own oils. And yes, the majors have proprietary base oils and additives that they do not sell to bath tub blenders.
I could care less about home stereo equipment or your driving habits. But ai have git 200k out of my current rig with Mobil 1 EP at 10k OCI. I could go longer ifnaindidnt drive on so many dusty roads out here.

 

[Hermio]

No, it is a fact the ASTM 4 ball test is ment for testing extreme pressure properties of greases, period.

Wrong again. ASTM specifically refers to using it to test oils. https://www.tribonet.org/wiki/four-ball-tester/ Also, an instrument manufacturer: https://koehlerinstrument.com/wp-co...Tests-for-Friction-and-Wear-in-Lubricants.pdf. Some text from the latter: Lubricants, including oils and greases, must always get tested for how they handle friction and wear on different types of surfaces under different operating conditions. Some lubricants will be more prone to allowing damage from friction and wear in certain applications than others and it is very important to see how different lubricants compare with each other in a given application. Many essential industries, such as automotive, aviation, marine, manufacturing, etc. rely on proper lubrication in machines in order to maximize efficiency and effectiveness in operation and tribology testing of lubricants is often the first step towards minimizing wear damage in machines. There have been different types of test methods developed for tribology testing and in particular, the four-ball method is used for measuring wear prevention and extreme pressure properties of lubricating oils and greases. In this article, we will discuss the importance of tribology testing of lubricants and explore how the four-ball testing compares with other types of testing.