Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[Hermio]

I’m a Saber user but will never run it at a 100:1 mix ratio. Has it shown to be able to be used at that ratio? Yep. But while it does provide sufficient lubrication for the bearings, it’s also shown to have more rapid piston skirt scuffing/polishing. I’ll keep using it, but at the 40:1 ratio that I use in all of my engines. The 80:1 and 100:1 claim is basically for cost savings.

L8R,
Matt

I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1. I believe it may be possible for it to work well at 100:1; in fact, many on this forum have reported doing so for years. But I have a lot of money invested in my 500i, so I will just spend a little more on the oil. But that does not mean I am getting better lubrication than I would at 100:1; I have no way of knowing that. What I do know is that as long as there is enough oil to form a film thick enough to prevent metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubricity. I just don't know for sure what that ratio is for a particular oil.

 

[SCMtnHaul]

I spoke with my local small engine repair shop & Stihl dealer about mix ratios and he said that Stihl had successfully tested their synthetic oil up to 70:1 but that, at least in his opinion, 50:1 leaves more room for error as well as a cushion in the event of a sudden air leak causing a lean condition. Of course severe duty applications like milling are an exception in my opinion. I always eyeball the 1 or 2 gallon line in my mix cans and I measure the oil from a bulk container so aiming for 50:1 seems a safe balance that has not resulted in any broken engines or much carbon buildup. And of course it's much cheaper and easier to clean a little carbon than to swap top ends. Anything can be fixed with enough money but we all only get so much time in our lease on life.

 

[AnthemBassMan]

I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1. I believe it may be possible for it to work well at 100:1; in fact, many on this forum have reported doing so for years. But I have a lot of money invested in my 500i, so I will just spend a little more on the oil. But that does not mean I am getting better lubrication than I would at 100:1; I have no way of knowing that. What I do know is that as long as there is enough oil to form a film thick enough to prevent metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubricity. I just don't know for sure what that ratio is for a particular oil.

I run my mix at 40:1 because I also use it in my 46 and 49 year old Lawn-Boy mowers. I have an email from Amsoil stating that they don’t recommend running Saber any leaner than 50:1 in my mowers. Since Saber can be used at any manufacturer recommended ratio as well as the thinner Amsoil ratios, I’m running the 40:1 just for piece of mind for my old mowers. My oldest Lawn-Boy has a bronze bushing for the lower crank bearing instead of needle or ball bearings that newer machines use.

L8R,
Matt

 

[bwalker]

I’m a Saber user but will never run it at a 100:1 mix ratio. Has it shown to be able to be used at that ratio? Yep. But while it does provide sufficient lubrication for the bearings, it’s also shown to have more rapid piston skirt scuffing/polishing. I’ll keep using it, but at the 40:1 ratio that I use in all of my engines. The 80:1 and 100:1 claim is basically for cost savings.

L8R,
Matt

Most oil can be ran at 100:1 and they won't immediately blow the motor. The damaging effects are chronic in nature rather than acute.
If you're going to run Saber at 40:1 you would be better served by Dominator IMO. Several guys that are credible and who I trust have had good results with it.

 

[bwalker]

Last time I checked the fee was ¥40 000.

The Jaso fee is around 10k IIRC.

 

[bwalker]

I run my mix at 40:1 because I also use it in my 46 and 49 year old Lawn-Boy mowers. I have an email from Amsoil stating that they don’t recommend running Saber any leaner than 50:1 in my mowers. Since Saber can be used at any manufacturer recommended ratio as well as the thinner Amsoil ratios, I’m running the 40:1 just for piece of mind for my old mowers. My oldest Lawn-Boy has a bronze bushing for the lower crank bearing instead of needle or ball bearings that newer machines use.

L8R,
Matt

In those bronze bushing motors I would run what LB reccomends. In the newer lawn boys Inwould ran 32:1. They duraforce motor in particular has a very weak big end rod bearing. I would also only use ashless TCW3 type oils per LB reccomendation.

 

[wildwes]

Most oil can be ran at 100:1 and they won't immediately blow the motor. The damaging effects are chronic in nature rather than acute.
If you're going to run Saber at 40:1 you would be better served by Dominator IMO. Several guys that are credible and who I trust have had good results with it.

Kind of like smoking one cigarette doesn't give you lung cancer, and a beer here and there won't kill your liver. A lot of either will often cause some pretty nasty chronic problems though.

 

[bwalker]

I know exactly what I am talking about. You obviously have no knowledge of kinetics, thermodynamics and heat transfer. And you also can't spell. (There is a difference in meaning between "your" and "you're."

Again, on this subject you are out in the weeds. I have ran more than a few two cycle motors fully instrumented out and with a data logger. Temps change with load much more than 40 some degrees.
I'm typing with a smart phone on a chainsaw board, not writing a masters dissertation.

 

[bwalker]

Kind of like smoking one cigarette doesn't give you lung cancer, and a beer here and there won't kill your liver. A lot of either will often cause some pretty nasty chronic problems though.

Exactly. The damage is cumulative and kills with time.

 

[bwalker]

You only say that because you have no understanding of science or engineering. Pathetic!

I have worked in industry for a few decades. Including as a metallurgy supervisor. I currently work in oil refining. In addition I have a Bachelors of Science.
I know plenty and especially on this subject.

 

[bwalker]

I actually contacted Amsoil's engineering department. They self-certify, which they are permitted to do. They have chosen not to use a third party because they do not wish to disclose certain ingredients in their formulation.

JASO does not require one to disclose ingredients. So who ever you talked to is full of it. Amsoil also doesn't have access to the test engines that JASO requires.
In addition for someone who allegedly is a chemical engineer you should know that figuring out the ingredients is very simple. As a result the Amsoil secret squirrel line is laughable. It's even more laughable you believe that crap.

 

[bwalker]

It’s basically the same thing as engine oils stating that they meet or exceed the Dexos rating. It meets those standards, but they’re not paying extra to have that stamp put on their oil jugs.

L8R,
Matt

Reputable companies pay the fee. Claiming it meets something without having a certification step is guessing.

 

[bwalker]

redbull661 on youtube and opeforum had some good tests on different oils

I like Redbull661. Very passionate guy. However, his tests had problems too.

 

[bwalker]

I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1. I believe it may be possible for it to work well at 100:1; in fact, many on this forum have reported doing so for years. But I have a lot of money invested in my 500i, so I will just spend a little more on the oil. But that does not mean I am getting better lubrication than I would at 100:1; I have no way of knowing that. What I do know is that as long as there is enough oil to form a film thick enough to prevent metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubricity. I just don't know for sure what that ratio is for a particular oil.

What you are not considering is residual oil helps with corrosion protection. It's also helps during start up when you're flooding the motor with liquid gasoline. In addition the lubrication requirement of a two cycle motor change with RPM and load. Maxima has a cool radio isotope oil migration study on their website or at least the use to. As such it is possible to go from optimal lubrication to too little pretty easily. A 50:1 ratio is on the light side to start with.

 

[epo]

The Jaso fee is around 10k IIRC.

 

[bwalker]

View attachment 1180324

View attachment 1180325

Is that the certification fee or just the paperwork handling fee?

 

[cookies]

I use Amsoil Saber at 50:1. I believe it may be possible for it to work well at 100:1; in fact, many on this forum have reported doing so for years. But I have a lot of money invested in my 500i, so I will just spend a little more on the oil. But that does not mean I am getting better lubrication than I would at 100:1; I have no way of knowing that. What I do know is that as long as there is enough oil to form a film thick enough to prevent metal-to-metal contact, more oil will not improve lubricity. I just don't know for sure what that ratio is for a particular oil.

More oil means better lubrication to a certain point, the way a saw lubricates is the fuel carrying the oil in it like a river, the oil also carries trash and heat with it out the muffler and it also creates the seal between the cylinder and ring transferring the heat from the piston to the cylinder cooling the piston. People seem to not think about that little rise in temp as more work being done or heat being removed from the piston.
People that buy premix fuel look for 40:1
People that mix their own fuel look for jaso FD and mix at 40:1 using 89-91 octane non ethanol, ported saws need 32:1. You should be prepared to retune every time the tool is used if the temperature has shifted 30+ degrees or if the tool was last run in a different season.

 

[epo]

Is that the certification fee or just the paperwork handling fee?

Paperwork fee = Certification fee.
The tests must either be carried out by the applicant or by any laboratory of his choice.

 

[muddy42]

This debate can never really be objectively proved. Personally:
- tuning is more important whatever your mix
- I am a big fan of oil, other than cost I can't think of situations where more lubrication is a problem.
- I suspect 50:1 was designed with air quality in mind.
- Measure accurately. The metric system is great for this, I don't know how you manage in the US.

I do some tough applications like milling and blocking, as well as lighter work, so to make things easier I stick to 40:1

 

[Hermio]

I have worked in industry for a few decades. Including as a metallurgy supervisor. I currently work in oil refining. In addition I have a Bachelors of Science.
I know plenty and especially on this subject.

I have already conceded that you have more general knowledge on this subject than I do. However, you do not know all that you pretend to know. You frequently present your opinions as fact when you have no evidence to back it up. You also do not respect those who know more than you do on specific topics. You denigrate anyone who disagrees with you. Most people who come to this forum do so either to learn from others or to help others by teaching them. Your main reason seems to be to get an opportunity to put people down. Great way to make friends and influence people!