Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[epo]

Sigh. I am saying that the efficiency increases as the exhaust gas temperature decreases. That has nothing to do with the temperature of the physical engine. I guess I will try to explain it to you one more time. If the exhaust gas temperature were the same as the combustion temperature in the cylinder, there could be no net work done. If there could be, it would be a perpetual motion machine, as somehow the engine could produce power without taking energy out of the combustion gasses.

It is the engine temperature that does not depend on the temperature in the combustion chamber?
Don't you think that even if the exhaust gas temperature increases, it doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in efficiency, because it will still depend on what temperature is reached in the combustion chamber? And it could, for example, depend on the compression ratio and how lean the fuel-air mixture is.
What kind of exhaust gas temperature and efficiency do you think modern F1 cars have?

 

[user 196652]

JASO rating.....if it 'aint on the Japanese list, it didn't happen.
https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf

 

[sean donato]

It is the engine temperature that does not depend on the temperature in the combustion chamber?
Don't you think that even if the exhaust gas temperature increases, it doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in efficiency, because it will still depend on what temperature is reached in the combustion chamber? And it could, for example, depend on the compression ratio and how lean the fuel-air mixture is.
What kind of exhaust gas temperature and efficiency do you think modern F1 cars have?

Already hit him with these questions and he just goes back to chirping lab answers. Too many variables to a cart blanc "hotter exhaust means less efficiant"

 

[bwalker]

I said Amsoil Saber met the JASO FD standards. They did not use an outside agency, so they may not be listed. I have no problem citing my papers on a reputable site. In fact, most of them are listed on my website. But I don't know you or others on this forum. You come across as arrogant and belligerent, so I do not trust you to behave in a sane manner. You also do not have a strong technical grasp of such things as fluid flow, film strength, analog testing, when statistical data are needed or basic thermodynamics, so nothing I say will dissuade you from your errors. But if you insist on seeing my publications, below is a partial list with name and publisher removed.
“Design and Scale-up of Agitators for Gas Dispersion in Fermentors”,

“Improved Starch Reactor Design

“Computational Fluid Mixing for Corn Wet Milling Applications”,

“Mixing in Industrial Fermenters

“A Comparative Study of Alternative Gas Dispersion Impellers

“ Proper Impeller Systems Insure Mixing Performance

“Enhancement of Fermentation with Effective Impeller Systems

“Optimize Power Consumption in Aerobic Fermenters

“Impeller Selection for Agitated Aerobic Fermenters

“Team Up with a Consultant for Equipment Selection

“The G-Value for Agitator Design: Time to Retire It

“Selecting Agitator Seals for Bioprocessing Applications”,

“Piloting Bioreactors for Agitation Scale-Up

“Agitation Challenges in Cellulosic Ethanol Production”,

“Sourcing Equipment in Developing Countries while Minimizing Risk

“Determine the Optimum Number of Process Trains

“Agitation of Fibrous Materials”,

“Reduce Risk When Sourcing Abroad

“Bioreactor Design for Chemical Engineers

“Determining Torque Split for Multiple Impellers in Slurry Mixing

“Cut Agitator Power Costs

“Why Conduct Pilot Studies for Agitated Gas-Liquid Mass Transfer -3

“Designing Multistage Agitated Reactors

“Pumps vs. agitators for tank mixing, classic case of CAPEX vs OPEX: white paper”,

“Computing Dissolved Oxygen Profiles in Aerobic Fermenters

“Large Scale Microbial Production of Advanced Biofuels: How big can we go?”,

“Optimizing Aerobic Fermenter Operation

“Impeller Selection for Lignocellulosic Hydrolysis Reactors

“Hydrofoil Impellers vs. Pitched Blade Turbines in Lignocellulosic Slurries”,

“Advanced Fermentation Agitation with Methanotrophs and Other Organisms”,

“Back to Basics”,

“Optimize Heat Transfer of Viscous Fluids in Agitated Vessels

“Equipment needs to study mixing of fibrous materials”,

“Equipment Requirements to Study Agitation for Gas-Liquid Fermentation”,

“Consider Hydrofoil Impellers for Laminar-Flow Mixing

“Biomass Conversion Agitation”,

“Optimize Aspect Ratio in Industrial Fermenters

Book, “Agitator design for gas-liquid fermenters and bioreactors”,

Book, “Agitator Design Technology for Biofuels and Renewable Chemicals”,

“How to Re-Suspend Settled Solids in an Agitated Tank”,

“Consider Hydrofoil Impellers for Laminar-Flow Mixing

“Biomass Conversion Agitation”, G. Benz, Biofuels Digest, March 9, 2019

“Heat Transfer in Mechanically Agitated Tanks”,

“Advancing Distillers Grains: Two Pathways to Dewatering”

You do realise that even Amsoil does not claim that Saber is Jaso certified or even meets Jaso standards? Again, there are good reasons why from a formulation stand point.
And you claim I don't have a firm grasp of film strength or thermodynamics. That's funny because as it pertains to applying either of those to lubricants and motors you are put in the weeds and frankly wrong. I might add arrogantly and belligerently so at that.

 

[bwalker]

Todd's test is not far off from the NOACK test. That test is at 482F; Todd's is at 450F.While the results won't be exactly the same, the ranking will be.

But why bother doing some home brewed test when the NOACK values are public knowledge?
To get view and thus generate income, period.

 

[bwalker]

I am sure there are a few oils that are not on the list but meet the standards. I am not the only one that thinks so: https://autosolutionlab.com/jaso-fd-2-stroke-oil-list/ I trust Amsoil when they say they meet FD standards, mainly because of my more than 2 million miles of use of their products in multiple cars and tractors.

Amsoil doesnt say that... because Saber in all likely hood would not meet the standards. I would speculate duento ash level and cleanliness. Are youbaware of what oil ratios the JASO tests are ran at?
And the link younpisted is an AI generated piece of garbage.

 

[bwalker]

Sigh. I am saying that the efficiency increases as the exhaust gas temperature decreases. That has nothing to do with the temperature of the physical engine. I guess I will try to explain it to you one more time. If the exhaust gas temperature were the same as the combustion temperature in the cylinder, there could be no net work done. If there could be, it would be a perpetual motion machine, as somehow the engine could produce power without taking energy out of the combustion gasses.

LOL. You can make the exhaust gas temp decrease simply by changing the fuel to air ratio or in a two stroke by poor port/ screwing up scavenging. Neither makes the engine more efficient. Actually the opposite.

 

[Hermio]

It is the engine temperature that does not depend on the temperature in the combustion chamber?
Don't you think that even if the exhaust gas temperature increases, it doesn't necessarily mean a decrease in efficiency, because it will still depend on what temperature is reached in the combustion chamber? And it could, for example, depend on the compression ratio and how lean the fuel-air mixture is.
What kind of exhaust gas temperature and efficiency do you think modern F1 cars have?

Not sure what you mean by F1. If you mean Formula ! race cars, the goal of racing engines is generally to maximize power, not efficiency. For example, dragsters have visible flames coming out of the exhaust, making them very inefficient. But by burning more fuel, they generate more power. Hot-rodded diesels, especially in tractor pulls, not only have visible flames but emit copious amounts of soot. This is because most of the energy comes from burinng the hydrogen portion of hydrocarbons. In essence, they are wasting a fair amount of carbon in order to burn as much hydrogen as possible and generate more power. So, though I don't have figures, if a normal automobile has about 30% efficiency, racing cars are likely quite a bit lower and have higher exhaust gas temperatures.

 

[Hermio]

You do realise that even Amsoil does not claim that Saber is Jaso certified or even meets Jaso standards? Again, there are good reasons why from a formulation stand point.
And you claim I don't have a firm grasp of film strength or thermodynamics. That's funny because as it pertains to applying either of those to lubricants and motors you are put in the weeds and frankly wrong. I might add arrogantly and belligerently so at that.

Amsoil actually told me they meet FD standards. I believe them. You can choose not to if you wish.

 

[Hermio]

I went to church yesterday and I felt compelled to reflect on what I have posted this last week. I let my pride and anger get the best of me and let my frustration out in my posts. I hereby apologize to all whom I have insulted on this forum, including Bwalker. I still maintain the technical points I brought up, but I should not have resorted to personal insult. I will try to keep things on a more professional level going forward.

 

[Hermio]

JASO rating.....if it 'aint on the Japanese list, it didn't happen.
https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf

Hmm. That is like saying if an event is not listed in the Guiness World Records, it didn't happen.

 

[farfromiowa]

I went to church yesterday and I felt compelled to reflect on what I have posted this last week. I let my pride and anger get the best of me and let my frustration out in my posts. I hereby apologize to all whom I have insulted on this forum, including Bwalker. I still maintain the technical points I brought up, but I should not have resorted to personal insult. I will try to keep things on a more professional level going forward.

Did you ask god what the best 2 stroke oil is?

 

[Hermio]

Did you ask god what the best 2 stroke oil is?

No. I am sure that is unimportant to Him.

 

[farfromiowa]

No. I am sure that is unimportant to Him.

I thought perhaps god could put an end to the oil threads.

 

[montana59]

Is getting ridiculous.Use whatever works for you and be done with it

 

[lone wolf]

Is getting ridiculous.Use whatever works for you and be done with it

Yup, I just use Amsoil Saber in everything 2 stroke, never let me down, and it ain't going to either,40 to 1 is good for me.

 

[bwalker]

I went to church yesterday and I felt compelled to reflect on what I have posted this last week. I let my pride and anger get the best of me and let my frustration out in my posts. I hereby apologize to all whom I have insulted on this forum, including Bwalker. I still maintain the technical points I brought up, but I should not have resorted to personal insult. I will try to keep things on a more professional level going forward.

If you are truly reflecting you would just admit you don't have a good understanding of what happens in a motor and as a result your conclusions are false.
In addition your pride is such that you through around your engineering degree your above approach to the rest of us morons. That's a bad look.

 

[bwalker]

Amsoil actually told me they meet FD standards. I believe them. You can choose not to if you wish.

Dominator will probably pass FD. I find it highly unlikely that Saber would pass.
For starters the smoke test is ran at a 10:1 oil ratio. Saber doesn't burn all that clean in my own testing at 40:1. Why would we expect it to? After all it's formulated to allow an engine to live at 100:1. The things you do from a formulation standpoint to allow this is you add more ZDDP and or you use a higher viscosity ester base oil. There is no magic. This is how it is done. Both of these things ar problematic in a two stroke, but the marketers love harping on 100:1.
I also find it highly unlikely that amsoil has the Jaso test engines. They have ran tests using Echontrimmers and published the results. If they had the Jaso test engines they would likewise publish those results.

 

[Hermio]

I thought perhaps god could put an end to the oil threads.

I don't think that is important to Him either.

 

[Hermio]

If you are truly reflecting you would just admit you don't have a good understanding of what happens in a motor and as a result your conclusions are false.
In addition your pride is such that you through around your engineering degree your above approach to the rest of us morons. That's a bad look.

What I do have a good understanding of is scientific testing, fluid flow and the 2nd law of thermo. To use a tired cliche, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. And for any test objective, there is more than one valid way to do it. I never claimed to be an engine expert. My comments were directed towards specific testing approaches.