Best 2 Stroke Oil?

[J.Noss]

Hey I got an oil question: I just bought a gallon of XP+ about 2wks ago, I just realized that tonight when I poured out the oil to mix w/fuel at E-free station I forgot to shake up the jug and it's been maybe since I bought it 2wks ago that it was shook up.. does the oil separate or anything to where using this particular mix might be bad?
I always try to shake the big gal oil jugs really well before pouring and I can't believe I forgot to tonight (in a hurry) I'm running 40:1 w/90oct e-free and using ported 550mk2, 572, 592 saws

 

[WheelHorseFan]

I have no doubt on that. Also have no doubt you can't apply it to a motor.
If you don't understand motors, you can't gave a valid critique of test methodologies for motor

I have no doubt on that. Also have no doubt you can't apply it to a motor.
If you don't understand motors, you can't gave a valid critique of test methodologies for motor oils.

Fyi-
With folks getting quite technical here I feel we should note that Motors run on electricity, engines run on combustible fuels....Just say'n....lol

 

[bwalker]

Hey I got an oil question: I just bought a gallon of XP+ about 2wks ago, I just realized that tonight when I poured out the oil to mix w/fuel at E-free station I forgot to shake up the jug and it's been maybe since I bought it 2wks ago that it was shook up.. does the oil separate or anything to where using this particular mix might be bad?
I always try to shake the big gal oil jugs really well before pouring and I can't believe I forgot to tonight (in a hurry) I'm running 40:1 w/90oct e-free and using ported 550mk2, 572, 592 saws

I've never shaken a jug of two stroke oil in my life. I have shaken the gas can after adding mix oil, but if your using an FD oil like you are you really don't have to do that.

 

[bwalker]

Fyi-
With folks getting quite technical here I feel we should note that Motors run on electricity, engines run on combustible fuels....Just say'n....lol

You better check Webster's.

 

[J.Noss]

I've never shaken a jug of two stroke oil in my life. I have shaken the gas can after adding mix oil, but if your using an FD oil like you are you really don't have to do that.

Thanks, I appreciate your input! I recently read a few hundred page oil thread that you participated in on another forum and I respect your knowledge on the subject. I out of habit and I guess limited understanding have always shaken the big oil jugs before pouring as well as the fuel tank of mix before every pour just to make absolutely sure it's mixed thoroughly..
my thinking was that the solution inside might settle/separate and since only 1/40th of the oil was poured out of the jug I might have poured out only a part of the intended solution. Glad to hear that isn't something that really happens.

 

[lone wolf]

You better check Webster's.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/motor

 

[diver64]

Yamalube at 40:1

A lot of people swear that Yamalube is one of if not the best out there.

 

[diver64]

IDK, 13 pages to come to the conclusion that different people have their own favorites in oil much like beer, cars etc. How about using an oil that conforms to all recommended standards and just be done with it?

 

[Hermio]

A more "professionial" level? good grief, I have seen precious little of that from you. You clearly don't know the meaning of the word.
Saying that an oil has been self certified is like saying someone has self certified a university degree and therefore has obtained that degree without actually obtaining it. Any oil company can claim they "meet the standard" but unless that has been shown to be the case by proving it to the JASO board, it hasn't happened. This is patently obvious so your response can only be considered deliberately provocative and clutching at straws.
If someone claims to have made a Guinness world record but no one saw it, it doesn't get into the book and therefore in effect never happened. But you surely know that already, you just like getting attention, starting arguments based on ridiculous notions and causing as much trouble as you can.
BTW here are some insults for you: you are insufferably and delusionally arrogant, conceited, stomach churningly passive-aggressive, you persistently try to punch above your weight intellectually, you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are, you think God has any time for you; trust me He doesn't; he thinks you're an arrogant idiot like I imagine most other people do, who have the misfortune to come into contact with you.
You try to feed your pitiful ego by using the techniques of psychological vampirism.
Stick that lot in your pipe and smoke it, then go back to church and ask God for forgiveness because you sure as hell 'aint going to get any from anyone here after your persistent attempts to cause as much trouble and upset as you can muster.

You are nothing but a glorified troll who uses intellectual dishonesty to feed off others. Playing these games with others is theft of their dignity and you do so to the detriment of your own spiritual health.

Happy now?

Edit: you can respond with whatever smart-arse comments you like and I'm sure you will; I won't be reading them and I have turned off notifications for all threads on this website. I won't be visiting, posting or reading anything ever again on this website.
Everyone else on here has been kind, helpful and supportive. You on the hand have ensured that this website has one less member going forward. I don't need troll snakes in my life. It's people like you who spoil it for everyone else because of your selfish needs.

Well, I am certainly no perfect human being. God knows that. But I am no troll. I try to correct errors in logic when I can. Your assertion that something did not happen because there is no official record of it is one of them. I got up this morning. But there is no record or list showing I did so. By your logic, therefore, I did not get up this morning.

 

[Hermio]

The tests really have to be industry standard test run by certified lab to mean anything. Some guy in a garage is pointless.
As it pertains to two cycle oils high film strength after a point can be very counter productive or we woukd be running 80w oils loaded with zinc and moly. Actually the same is true of four cycle oils as well.

I did some more digging on this and found an old 2013 thread on Bob is the oil guy. A poster referred to a test of 44 oils he found on the Speed Talk site, run by a guy called 540RAT. He used a modified version of the test ASTM D2782, which is to measure film strength of lubricating oils with a viscosity of <5000 cs at 40C, which would include all engine oils. #1 on his list was Pennzoil Ultra 5W30. #4 was Amsoil Signature 0W30, which had 91% of the film strength of the Pennzoil 5W30, and a higher strength than many of the other more viscous oils. Todd's apparatus was pretty much the same, so it, too, is similar to the ASTM test. Todd also added in power draw, which is related to how much residual friction there is, so it provides more information than just film strength. Back in 2013, just as today, many questioned whether such testing meant anything in engine use, as the pressures were much higher than in an engine. But since these tests involved sliding friction, which is what happens with piston rings in the cylinder, I think they do indicate anti-wear properties. Of course, that is not the only attribute that is important in an engine oil. But it is one aspect, and I think it is relevant.

 

[lone wolf]

Has anyone here experienced a failure in their saw directly related to any two-stroke oil ? I would be interested in that.

 

[diver64]

I did some more digging on this and found an old 2013 thread on Bob is the oil guy. A poster referred to a test of 44 oils he found on the Speed Talk site, run by a guy called 540RAT. He used a modified version of the test ASTM D2782, which is to measure film strength of lubricating oils with a viscosity of <5000 cs at 40C, which would include all engine oils. #1 on his list was Pennzoil Ultra 5W30. #4 was Amsoil Signature 0W30, which had 91% of the film strength of the Pennzoil 5W30, and a higher strength than many of the other more viscous oils. Todd's apparatus was pretty much the same, so it, too, is similar to the ASTM test. Todd also added in power draw, which is related to how much residual friction there is, so it provides more information than just film strength. Back in 2013, just as today, many questioned whether such testing meant anything in engine use, as the pressures were much higher than in an engine. But since these tests involved sliding friction, which is what happens with piston rings in the cylinder, I think they do indicate anti-wear properties. Of course, that is not the only attribute that is important in an engine oil. But it is one aspect, and I think it is relevant.

Bob The Oil Guy is why I switched to Valvoline Part Syn high mileage for my cars. Best protection/price combo I found. His testing is pretty convincing.

 

[bwalker]

Thanks, I appreciate your input! I recently read a few hundred page oil thread that you participated in on another forum and I respect your knowledge on the subject. I out of habit and I guess limited understanding have always shaken the big oil jugs before pouring as well as the fuel tank of mix before every pour just to make absolutely sure it's mixed thoroughly..
my thinking was that the solution inside might settle/separate and since only 1/40th of the oil was poured out of the jug I might have poured out only a part of the intended solution. Glad to hear that isn't something that really happens.

With synthetic 4 cycle motor oil I do turn the jugs upside down and let them sit for awhile before using them. The additive treat rates are way higher for them though. That and the can be formulated with PAO base stocks. PAo's have real problems with additive solubility. That's why the are often blended with esters or mineral oils. Neither of the latter have Solubility issues.
Two cycle oil really doesn't have much have much in it and are typically not formulated with PAO's.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Thank you for the welcome, and I hear what you are saying, now I realize what I read was from another Forum. We all have opinions on 2 stroke Oil and at the end of the day we use whatever 2 stroke oil we use.

You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise. It’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?

 

[OM617YOTA]

With synthetic 4 cycle motor oil I do turn the jugs upside down and let them sit for awhile before using them. The additive treat rates are way higher for them though. That and the can be formulated with PAO base stocks. PAo's have real problems with additive solubility. That's why the are often blended with esters or mineral oils. Neither of the latter have Solubility issues.
Two cycle oil really doesn't have much have much in it and are typically not formulated with PAO's.

I'll have to try and remember that.

I'm buying another diesel at the end of the month, going to have to start keeping 5w-40 diesel oil on hand again.

 

[bwalker]

I'll have to try and remember that.

I'm buying another diesel at the end of the month, going to have to start keeping 5w-40 diesel oil on hand again.

Which oil do you plan to use in it?

 

[smcowboy1974]

Not so cool to inhale lead.

Just think of all the old farmers, sawyers, etc. who ran tractors for hours on end plowing fields and breathing in all that stuff. Jeepers Creepers.

 

[bwalker]

I did some more digging on this and found an old 2013 thread on Bob is the oil guy. A poster referred to a test of 44 oils he found on the Speed Talk site, run by a guy called 540RAT. He used a modified version of the test ASTM D2782, which is to measure film strength of lubricating oils with a viscosity of <5000 cs at 40C, which would include all engine oils. #1 on his list was Pennzoil Ultra 5W30. #4 was Amsoil Signature 0W30, which had 91% of the film strength of the Pennzoil 5W30, and a higher strength than many of the other more viscous oils. Todd's apparatus was pretty much the same, so it, too, is similar to the ASTM test. Todd also added in power draw, which is related to how much residual friction there is, so it provides more information than just film strength. Back in 2013, just as today, many questioned whether such testing meant anything in engine use, as the pressures were much higher than in an engine. But since these tests involved sliding friction, which is what happens with piston rings in the cylinder, I think they do indicate anti-wear properties. Of course, that is not the only attribute that is important in an engine oil. But it is one aspect, and I think it is relevant.

Yamaha did a test that is documented and can be found on the web where they added more PIB two a two cycle oil blend to increase film strength. What they documented was that it was counter productive and caused increased bearing temps. I am paraphrasing here, but you can look it up for your self.
Back to the four cycle oils tests. I won't comment on a website from eleven years ago. Other than to say your fixating on boundary lubrication which is a measure of the additive package stoutness. Specifically ZDDP, Moly,Boron, etc.
Film strength is usually discussed under hydrodynamic terms. So when I say viscosity is basically film strength, I am correct.
If that home spun test floats your boat and your film strength obsession I would probably use the Pennzoil product. At least it's API certified and you know what your getting.
And those test are indeed not indictive of what happens in an engine and certainly not the piston rings. That's why the industry uses the ball tests for grease and gear oils mostly.

 

[bwalker]

Just think of all the old farmers, sawyers, etc. who ran tractors for hours on end plowing fields and breathing in all that stuff. Jeepers Creepers.

IQ tests went up after leaded gasoline was discontinued.

 

[diver64]

Well, I am certainly no perfect human being. God knows that. But I am no troll. I try to correct errors in logic when I can. Your assertion that something did not happen because there is no official record of it is one of them. I got up this morning. But there is no record or list showing I did so. By your logic, therefore, I did not get up this morning.

I guess your not perfect if your "stomach churning passive aggressive"