Brits talkin about Brit stuff

[Big A]

Clearance,As a utility arborist are you expected to cut so much per day to make your wage?as most companies over here get paid £££ per k of overhead lines & expect their employees to cut as much as possible without a thought about the health of the tree.
As Rolla said have a look at a few books from the likes of Dr A Shigo,N.D james & even some of the ISA books.

Even though the line clearance is paid on £££'s per K according to the small print in the contracts, all pruning should be carried out to BS3998 leaving trees in best possible form. This was the instruction from Electric Board to all private contractors. Trouble is their line managers dont even know what BS3998 involves! How long does it take to do a good pruning cut over a bead one? Sorry but no excuses for bad craftmanship, and yes I've done line clearance in the past and would have been sacked if carried out work in the manner that I see nowadays.

 

[Ross Turner]

Even though the line clearance is paid on £££'s per K according to the small print in the contracts, all pruning should be carried out to BS3998 leaving trees in best possible form. This was the instruction from Electric Board to all private contractors. Trouble is their line managers dont even know what BS3998 involves! How long does it take to do a good pruning cut over a bead one? Sorry but no excuses for bad craftmanship, and yes I've done line clearance in the past and would have been sacked if carried out work in the manner that I see nowadays.

Big A i agree with you,I will only use spikes on takedowns.Some people will say its ok to climb with spikes if its deemed unsafe to do so,ie in the wet or if the tree is covered in ivy just to get the job done.
As for BS3998 its not the line managers at fault but the climbers who do the job,as if they have been trained they will be aware of them.

 

[Big A]

i know that's true and its probably just down to laziness, There are circumstances where it may be needed to where spikes such as emergency work in storms etc. Take-downs are adifferent ball game as the tree will be gone anyway so you may as well wear them as not to improve efficiency.

 

[SteveBullman]

As for BS3998 its not the line managers at fault but the climbers who do the job,as if they have been trained they will be aware of them.

its the line managers fault if he doesnt address the issue after the first occasion ie. sack the climber

 

[Ross Turner]

its the line managers fault if he doesnt address the issue after the first occasion ie. sack the climber

Abit harsh,Maybe a formal warning.I no a few line managers who would turn a blind eye just so the work gets done.
I think the Recs Tree auditors should carry out more suprise audits to catch this type of climber & not letting the main contractor know that they will be auditing that area so the climbers are unaware when they turn up.

 

[SteveBullman]

still, some people will never learn and the best way to set an example is to make one.
ive been round enough half ar*ed f'wits to know that some people are never going to buck their ideas up

 

[SteveBullman]

i've watched companies slide right downhill because the bosses couldn't bring themselves to fire hopeless cases
no place for leniancy(sp?) when it comes to maintaining high standards

 

[jockie]

have to agree with ross and steve! if high standards arnt to slide the hopeless cases have to be dealt with, but sack them after first occasion and you'll be spending days preparing for and then appearing at the Industrial Tribunal! you can still make an example by giving verbal, written and final warning. the real f'wits will get all 3 and the sack in the same day! i've dropped myself in the sh1t before by going head on at performance issues, now i play straight down the line with that and h&s - harder at the time but better in the longrun. its just the blame and claim culture we live in!

 

[SteveBullman]

its the line managers fault if he doesnt address the issue after the first occasion ie. sack the climber

i wasnt suggesting immediate dismissal......but dismissal after the climber or groundsman has already been told.
imo theres no need to have to tell anyone anything twice.

 

[Ross Turner]

Why dont you get in touch with Greenmech or timberwolf & see if you can have one on demo for the day.Its got to be worth a try.

 

[jockie]

hi R! - timberwolf have a dealers all over uk and think they hire

i'm actually visiting their factory tmrw, i'll get them to call you if you like?

 

[Big A]

i've watched companies slide right downhill because the bosses couldn't bring themselves to fire hopeless cases
no place for leniancy(sp?) when it comes to maintaining high standards

Alternatively you could promote the worst case to foreman, give him more money, then sit back and watch him do even less!!!!

 

[Big A]

Seriously, if you do nothing you end up losing business and reputation, then you may as well quit!

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

horse`s for course`s m8 a pruning cut done correctly will barrier up, a spike thro the outer bark into cambium won`t

if folks use m on tpo or amenity trees n the local arb off might have kittens

a tree will CODIT whether its a pruning cut or a spike wound !.All i'm saying is a few spike wound's are no more detrimental to the tree than a whole load of pruning cut's it's all bad new's for the tree.Whilst were on the subject i'd go as far to say 90% of tree pruning is detrimental to the health of a tree and i'd even say most pruning work is totally unnecessary

 

[Acer]

have to agree with ross and steve! if high standards arnt to slide the hopeless cases have to be dealt with, but sack them after first occasion and you'll be spending days preparing for and then appearing at the Industrial Tribunal! you can still make an example by giving verbal, written and final warning. the real f'wits will get all 3 and the sack in the same day! i've dropped myself in the sh1t before by going head on at performance issues, now i play straight down the line with that and h&s - harder at the time but better in the longrun. its just the blame and claim culture we live in!

Got to agree with this. Even for small employers, It's worth sitting down and writing out contracts of employment and grievance procedures, so everyone knows where they are. If you make it up as you go along, you get saddled with these hopeless cases - from experience. As the employer, you're on the back foot if you haven't got some written agreement, and it only takes one tosser to drag the lot down, and sour the attitude of the good people you've got.

 

[jockie]

called the timberwolf factory in suffolk on monday and spoke to their sales office about what i need and the trouble i was having finding a s/h 190. they thought that a 150 (the 6") might suit me and maybe(?) easier to get a s/h machine. they offered me a factory visit where they'd give me a demo of the 190 and 150, even though they know that i'm not in the market for a new machine. i'm visiting friends in newmarket at the weekend so i've arranged to go to timberwolf on monday morning. didnt suss timberwolf150 (yet)! anyone been to their factory?

Spent over 2 hours at timberwolf today - made really welcome. they've got quite a set up, brand new factory etc. lots of stuff going through their
r and d dept and they took me through all the changes/improvements to different models over the last 2 years that have dealt with a fair few problems. they opened up their warranty records to me to show that the improvements have brought overall warranty claims to bugger all, so guess it must be working! while i was in the service dept, the engineer took a call from a user and talked him through a problem live on the phone - the bloke kept working! also saw the new timberwolf 150 tracked chipper - not their ajustible track machine, but new fixed width on much bigger, more powwerfull tracks. theyre launching the machine soon. machine looks great as if it cld go anywhere. they tracked it around up and down ridiculous slopes on site no problem. still got trouble finding a s/h 190, although they have put me in touch with one of their dealers who might have an ex demo machine. tempted to go for that new tracked 150 now though! no-one coughed to being 'timberwolf150'!!

 

[iain]

hi rolla
i appreciate where your coming from, re the codit model sorry barrier was a poor choice of word, however spikes cause undue injury, this is why the tree will compartmentalise the damaged area to reduce decay and the invasion by the nasties,
however, the point i was mereley trying to make was this, the use of spikes can be seen as willful and the wilfull damage of trees ( tpo etc), is what gets lads in the sh1t,
i choose not to use spike`s unless the tree is being removed, so as not to slip up one day and end up facing prosecution.

pruning can be a drag and some may well be unneccessary, that maybe , due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the client, who could be guided by reputable co`s, however, some simply won`t pay for proffesional rates, unfortunatley people often take advice from those, who are on the face of it cheapest, usually resulting in poor advice and service
in my experience most people don`t want to pay for, what doesn`t want doing, and rightly so !, although sometimes the old phrase `bullsh1t baffles brains` applys
we do more take downs than pruning for the private sector, mainly because the the trees have been neglected / or hacked to save money, in-life you get what you pay for ! false economy really,
any hoo hows the new dude doing

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

hi rolla

we do more take downs than pruning for the private sector, mainly because the the trees have been neglected / or hacked to save money, in-life you get what you pay for ! false economy really,
any hoo hows the new dude doing

I recently noticed in my area that there has not been any reduction in the amount of poor work since i started out almost 20 years ago ,In stead of going through a battle [education seminar with customer who says i want the tree topped whatever ]with home owner's i would rather sell a takedown ,P.S i never have and never will use spikes whilst pruning

FELLOW BRITS!! how is work ?,for me i can't plan bugger all were either flatout or at a near standstill never in-between..how the **** can you plan a business in this senario ,lot's of other firm's tell me they are also in the same perdicament..I wouldn't like to be a new kid on the block with the last few years being stop start stop start ,if i were new in business i would have packed up by now

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ian the new dudes are doing fine thank's ,

 

[jockie]

Rolla

youre right you know! i'm lucky enough to have contract clearance and maintenance work for 'leckie company and for the m o d (couple of bases) and both of these were thru who i knew and not what!(like to think i keep the work be cause of what though!) without this i'd be soiling my panties as work came that i had to turn away cos too busy at that time and had disappeared when i had the space. feast or famine springs to mind and even my contract biz is seasonal and under attack from the 'biggies' who do a sh1te job for low cost. depressed now. can i afford the new chipper!!!!!!!!!???
do i invest or not? standstill and die or take a punt????? HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP