Brits talkin about Brit stuff

[Ross Turner]

I used to work for a few companies,one had a parent AA approved company,whos staff was unable to carry out the jobs that they had to ask the utility arborists to do jobs that their men could not manage.
My understanding to the AA approved contractors is they should follow industry best guidelines & all the regs that qovern the industry,just a shame not all companies do that.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Heres My reasons for hating the AA.

back in 1983 my father attained AA approved contractor status for the business. We were approved contractors for 13 years, no problem. then My father gains AA approved consultant status, and I assumed control of the contracting side of the business.
At this point, the top brass at the AA tell us that we cant be approved contractors and consultants, as there would be in their words 'a conflict of interests'.

My father naturally wanted to take approved consultant status, so we decided that we would split the business, He consulting, Me continueing the contracting. I assumed that we could then keep the approved contractors status with maybe a checkup. No Chance. We were told that we would have to completely reapply as a new business, and go through all that rigmarole. This dispite (or because?) my father sitting on the AA contractors assesment panel. This caused a small falling out between me and father but a large falling out with AA.
Yes it is Jobs for the boys. I still have arguments with my father over the whole AA thing.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

the only other AA aproved contractor round here climbs everything with spikes. also does dreadfull topping.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

The AA didn't do much a few years ago when our insurance premiums went up by 400%..i doubt the poor buggers who couldn't afford the insurance and ceased trading have much good to say about the AA.I can't see councils only accepting AA approved contractors,the way i see it is if you for fill your insurance company's criteria then this should be good enough and IMO council contractors should have formal qualifications ie in tree biology, any **** can climb about in a tree and hack off branches IMO nptc tickets are ok but not good enough ,a proper arborist should be qualified in tree biology

 

[iain]

i'm glad its not just me ,

 

[Ross Turner]

Rolla,thats why i call myself a climber "lol"
Still thinking which qual to go for RFS or ISA.

 

[iain]

rfs, i did mine on home study though the hort correspondence college

 

[Thor's Hammer]

I did the RFS, its quite in depth when it comes to tree biology, P+D etc. My only small gripe is that its not a recognized qualification Outside the industry.

 

[Big A]

I did the RFS, its quite in depth when it comes to tree biology, P+D etc. My only small gripe is that its not a recognized qualification Outside the industry.

We were discussing this very subject at work today, the person I was with did the RFS ticket last year, when looking out for work even the employers (Arb) dont want to know about qualifications, sowhat does that say for the future of this industry? IMO I think that most employers just want numpties who will work for as little as possible, to increase the profit margin. I am so disenchanted with the standards in this industry, ( that I have witnessed) and the general attitudes I have seen in both workers and employers alike. How much effort does it take for someone to listen, then carry out a task properly? In F&BT and essentialArb we keep reading about being accepted as "professionals" in our trade. I think some have got one hell of a long way to go before they are truly "professional". After all its a state of mind.
Thanks for all the messages of condolence, very much appreciated.

 

[teressa green]

whinging wont get you no where,all i do is price right and do the job.AA can go bollox as can f&bt, qualifications dont mean anything ability and experience ,and good customer relations ,good work and honour your word as i do ,goes a long way ,stop whinging and if necessary work cheaper and faster than the next man ,am booked up for months ,why? cos i dont whinge just get up and go to work without over educating myself and baffling potential customers,regulations ,qualifications ,bollox ,i want the cash i go get it ,

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

I worry about people who say there is nothing to worry about with this industry! i would say this proffesion is near on it's arse,and i think a lot of other people would agree with me..for example i heard the other day from a bricklayer friend that brickies on a certain site around here are on £140 a day and labourers are on £75-80 there arent many emplyed [paye] climbers and grounds men on that kind of money.

As for qualifacations i think the higher education the better ie ''the pen is mightier than the sword'' i'm expecting a info pack from the AA tommorow i'm looking into becoming AA aproved or ISA certificated..ROSS city and guilds is a good qualifacation to start with 'its only one day a week ,you'd p*ss the climbing and cutting ,but the theory [bioligy] stuff is quite good

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

ANOTHER EXAMPLE RGARDING THIS INDUSTRY i bought a big sling for my block at the AA show from 'TREES UNLIMITED' i asked if it came with a certificate of conformity the guy looked at me with a blank face and said theres some info on the sling its self ,i checked it out today no serial number etc on it ,what the heck are these people on....these people sell kit but haven't they ever heard of LOLA

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Im pretty sure trees unlimited are loler inspectors - I could be wrong?

 

[teressa green]

they are loler testers,

 

[Jim1NZ]

Hey, how do ya like the Lions tour of NZ so far...

 

[puwer]

Sorry Rolla, but i seem to have missed your point? The supplier is under no obligation to supply the end user with a certifcate/decleration/evidence of conformity, as it will fall under the PPE Directive. Having no cert of conf doesn't alter your obligiations under LOLER it just means the item must undergo a thorough examination prior to use, which you could have got done at the AA trade show no doubt by TreesUnlimited.

 

[Ross Turner]

I thought that when you bought any kit that came under Loler that you had to have a Cert of comformity when you buy it.

Rolla,I started doing the C&G years ago but was lossing to much money by taking the time off work,so had to stop it.Need to find a cousre that i could do on a night at a college,but cant seem to find one local.

 

[iain]

to cut to the quick, far too much retoric is spouted by many, giving many different ideas , some of which hold water, however the more this government stiffles business with paperwork & regulation the more it will cost to police = the tax payer gets shafted, and direct cost burden on business = the client will foot the bill and business's will fail and go under = unemployment
so long as bs3998 bs5837 criteria (where applicable) the client cant be forced to use anyone so the AA &isa are urinating in the breeze
in principle i agree with an industry standards but there are too many variables at the moment for it to work , lets face it joe bloggs can walk into B&Q and by a chainsaw and they cannot purchase ppe at the ponit of sale and are not adequatley advised of the risk WHAT a Jolk HSE B**llocks

unfortunatley we wont change anything regardless of our best intention
i fully accept it, however i do object to unlevel playing and organisations proporting to
work for the industry who are really working for there own interests
one interesting observation from a recent show, did anyone notice the dead tree left standing to the rear left of one of the stands high wind n lightning ( Risk assesment bah)

 

[puwer]

Ross,

Have you tried Dave Dowson at Treelifetraining.co.uk he can advise on courses RFS/ISA Cert Arb/AA Tech/Pro Dip, places to study, distance learning etc. Probably one of the best in the business, when it comes to academic training and more importantly results!

Certificate/Deceleration/Evidence of conformity it all gets a little confusing.

The EC Decelration of conformity is the porcedure whereby the MANUFACTURER or his authorised rep draws up a deceleration certifying that the PPE placed on the market are in conformity with the provisons of the Directive

The Directive being the PPE Directive 89/686/EEC fromn which our PPE at Work Regs 1992 are drawn up.

Under the directive (at this time) there is no requirement for the supplier to issue EVIDENCE of conformity to the end user when it comes to PPE.

LOLER inspectors should know Reg 9 of the LOLER Regs detailing equipment which is shown without a DoC needs a thorough exam before put into service.

However, back to reality, if i am inspecting a piece of kit i need traceability, who made it, when, how, what EN does it conform to? Was it part of a reel of rope, is it CE marked? All of this info is on the DoC and can make my life 100% easier.If it does not affect my judgement to make a thorough examination of the item of equipment i do not need to see DoC or evidence of conformity.

It is worth pointing out, winches, blocks, and machinery in general obviously come under the machinery directive which ARE required to be issued with a DoC and an enforcing authority has the right to ask an employer for evidence of conformity.

At the end of the day if suppliers issued evidence of conformity (get the terminology right in the first place) it would make everyones life easier, climbers would know what they are getting, that it conforms, that it satisfies LOLER and they have traceability, from a supplier point of view when the industry best practice says climbing kit must be sold with EoC then it would make there life easier so climbers aren't constantly asking for it.

There is mass confusion in our industry over this and we have one supplier saying one thing, and another saying soemthing else. If they are selling the stuff then why don't they educate themselves.

Rant over.

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Sorry Rolla, but i seem to have missed your point? The supplier is under no obligation to supply the end user with a certifcate/decleration/evidence of conformity, as it will fall under the PPE Directive. Having no cert of conf doesn't alter your obligiations under LOLER it just means the item must undergo a thorough examination prior to use, which you could have got done at the AA trade show no doubt by TreesUnlimited.

Not what i was told by my loler inspecter,he told me everything i buy should come with A, a certificate of some description ,and B,the item should also have a tag with ie serial number and swl etc on it.. oh and a CE mark on it somewhere