burning softwood.???

[Mikecutstrees]

woodjack, I don't have a thermometer but many one here do and they can advise you. I think 250 is way too cold though but as I said I'm not sure. Best bet for firewood is to stay a year ahead which sucks if it's your first season. My best advise is find some standing dead oak to burn. Keep it dry after cutting it, then split it and it should be good to go pretty soon (Couple weeks). Ash is good too, but standing dead ash can often be pretty rotted. Sometimes I work in kingston, I'm not sure where in the catskills you are but I might be able to hook you up with some cheap or free wood next year. Just PM me and I'll keep your name on file..... Mike

 

[Woodjack]

mike, thanks. I just sent you a PM. I'm in woodstock near the saugerties border. I cut down a dead oak the other day and it was punky/rotted and tough too split. is that knid of wood okay to burn?

 

[Brushwacker]

I am not new to burning wood and have burned enough pine verses hardwood to know there is a difference between the amount of creosote in dry pine and dry oak. I would estimate most pine I have used you would need to clean your chimney at least 2 to 1 verses hardwoods comprible in dryness.
I am cautious because it sucks up on a roof in the middle of winter and not having a toasty warm fire to look forward to when you get back inside.
My advice to anyone used to burning hardwoods use the pine sparingly fall and winter then use it up in the late spring, then clean your chimney. Of course it shouldn't be a problem in an outside wood burner in the open,or if its not a problem cleaning your chimney during the winter. Mabe there is some pines that creosote less then the ones I have used.
I use a little , mostly for kindling,and if I am burning a hot fire I sometimes add a 3 to 4inch piece. I like the smell of pine and I do not like seeing wood wasted. It makes good campfire wood and I usually stack some where our family camps.
Any body burned much eastern red ceder or northern white ceder ?
I have been using a little eastern red about like I use pine.

 

[cjcocn]

mike, thanks. I just sent you a PM. I'm in woodstock near the saugerties border. I cut down a dead oak the other day and it was punky/rotted and tough too split. is that knid of wood okay to burn?

That's the kind of wood that we used to gather for our smoke house (not the oak part, but the punky/rotted part). While I am not familiar with oak, I generally stay away from the punky/rotted stuff as far as firewood goes.

Also (from your post - # 20 in this thread), how do you store your wood? If you stack it on a pallet (not just pile it on the ground), then only the top of the stack should get any real moisture - wood from within the stack should remain relatively dry. If you are buying wood one cord at a time and it doesn't really have an opportunity to dry, can you stack it inside near your stove so that it has some chance of drying? Stacking (as opposed to just piling) promotes air flow and helps to season and keep your wood pile dry.

HTH

 

[Woodjack]

I have my wood nicely stacked on pallets and keep it covered on top with a plastic tarp. The problem is that the wood gets very little sun. After reading the replies on this thread I'm concerned that it may not season - ever. Will wood season in the shade? Do you think wood dries faster outdoors or indoors in a 55 degree room?

 

[Mikecutstrees]

usually oak is a little punky on the outside but the inside is solid and dry. If its not solid then it's been dead too long (5+ years) and is a waste of time. I burn alot of limb wood from pruning oaks it's free and burns great and is hard on my chipper to chip. Thanks for the PM next time I get a takedown in the kingston area I'll give you a shout. The first year I was in my house I didn't have much good wood either so I brought as much as I could in and then kept it near the fire to help it dry out some. Also wood will season in the shade but it takes a while longer. Keep it covered and the sides open and it will be good in a year usually depending on the type of wood.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm

Check out this website. All kinds of useful info on wood plus answers to misunderstood woodburning questions and other stuff.

 

[cjcocn]

I have my wood nicely stacked on pallets and keep it covered on top with a plastic tarp. The problem is that the wood gets very little sun. After reading the replies on this thread I'm concerned that it may not season - ever. Will wood season in the shade? Do you think wood dries faster outdoors or indoors in a 55 degree room?

From one of your earlier posts, I thought that you bought the wood already seasoned? If not, then maybe you had better start by looking for a different supplier - one who can deliver seasoned wood to you. If you are in your first year and are burning the wood as you get it, then getting seasoned wood is quite important.

As Mikecutstrees stated, it is best to stay a year ahead of your wood needs. Are you set up to process your own firewood from the forest to your wood stove? If so, have you gathered next season's wood yet? Having next year's wood stacked will help to eliminate some of these concerns next year.

As far as where will wood dry faster, it depends on your current outdoor conditions (and wood will season in the shade, but not as fast as it would being in direct sunlight).

HTH

 

[Woodjack]

usually oak is a little punky on the outside but the inside is solid and dry. If its not solid then it's been dead too long (5+ years) and is a waste of time. I burn alot of limb wood from pruning oaks it's free and burns great and is hard on my chipper to chip. Thanks for the PM next time I get a takedown in the kingston area I'll give you a shout. The first year I was in my house I didn't have much good wood either so I brought as much as I could in and then kept it near the fire to help it dry out some. Also wood will season in the shade but it takes a while longer. Keep it covered and the sides open and it will be good in a year usually depending on the type of wood.

Thanks for the info and for any wood you give or reasonably sell to me.

 

[Woodjack]

From one of your earlier posts, I thought that you bought the wood already seasoned? If not, then maybe you had better start by looking for a different supplier - one who can deliver seasoned wood to you. If you are in your first year and are burning the wood as you get it, then getting seasoned wood is quite important.

As Mikecutstrees stated, it is best to stay a year ahead of your wood needs. Are you set up to process your own firewood from the forest to your wood stove? If so, have you gathered next season's wood yet? Having next year's wood stacked will help to eliminate some of these concerns next year.

As far as where will wood dry faster, it depends on your current outdoor conditions (and wood will season in the shade, but not as fast as it would being in direct sunlight).

HTH

All of the above - I have a lot of wood from recently cut trees, a forest of standing and dead trees, and a recently delivered cord of wood. I think the cord is well seasoned, only wet from being exposed outdoors. I'm hoping it will dry out in about a week.
My problem is I don't get much sun and was wondering if my recently cut wood will season well, covered dry but always in shade.

Process my own wood? I cut it with a chain saw, split it with a maul, then stack it. That's my process.

Maybe this should be a new thread, but do you guys think I can get through the winter just gathering and burning branches (1-3 inches)?

 

[Dok]

I went through what you are going through about eight years ago. The seasoned wood you get from the firewood sellers is never dry enough. I purchased two cords of "seasoned" oak and alder mix with wood I cut myself. I found standing dead branches and trees would burn fine. The leaves should be long gone and sometimes you will find branches so old that the bark is falling off. Look for pieces that are off the ground, anything on the ground for a year will start to rot. I would cut branches as small as 1.5" diameter. I stayed with the smaller pieces because they were usually dryer than the larger portions. I also supplemented the hardwood with pine, which dries out a lot faster than oak and even burns green. You can get a hot fire going with pine then put in a piece of the not quite dry hardwood in and it will go.

You should also start laying in wood now for next fall. Its best to get your cutting done in the spring so the wood can have a full summer to season. In the summer I take the tarps off the wood ricks to help the process. If you are in the shade the wood will still season, just split all the rounds you can and stack the wood so that air can pass through.
Hope this helps!
Dok

 

[cjcocn]

All of the above - I have a lot of wood from recently cut trees, a forest of standing and dead trees, and a recently delivered cord of wood. I think the cord is well seasoned, only wet from being exposed outdoors. I'm hoping it will dry out in about a week.
My problem is I don't get much sun and was wondering if my recently cut wood will season well, covered dry but always in shade.

Process my own wood? I cut it with a chain saw, split it with a maul, then stack it. That's my process.

Maybe this should be a new thread, but do you guys think I can get through the winter just gathering and burning branches (1-3 inches)?

It sounds like you have the makings of a good wood supply. Depending on the weather, your delivered cord should dry out some and make it easier to burn.

If you have a ready supply of dry branches, then you can just burn those all winter. Do like Dok said, get a good fire going and then throw on a not so dry piece of wood - the heat from the fire will dry that wood out and help it to burn hotter.

Start cutting for next year too if you have the space (and it sounds like you do). That way your wood will have the opportunity to season for next year and, because you are the one cutting it, you can control how it is handled and keep it dry (Dok mentioned this as well). Your recently cut wood would probably be good for next season if it is green stuff, but if it was cut from standing dead trees then it may burn well this winter.

As for processing - I should have been more clear on that one. You answered my question tho - you do process your own wood and have the equipment required. That puts you more in the driver's seat as you can control how the wood is handled. Also, when processing your own wood from start to finish you are better able to gauge when it is ready to burn.

If you have more questions then maybe it is best to start your own thread. That way all thread responses will be geared towards answering any questions that you may have. I will look for your thread in the woodburning forum, but (as you can probably tell) I can only offer general suggestions as I have a different situation in that I haul my wood from ± 30 miles away, but it is all dry and well seasoned.

HTH

 

[aandabooks]

I made the mistake last year of burning dimensional pine. We have a woodshop at work that makes our pallets for products. They get 1x4s and such in quantity. Well there is always cutoffs. Brought two large boxes of it home and proceeded to burn it. Creosoted up the chimney. I have a 33 ft. clay lined chimney.

Buddy of mine at work has been taking boxes of it all winter and putting it in his OWB and it has not been an issue. Being kiln dried I would have thought I was good to go.

I don't have to worry about burning pine as there is not a single pine tree on the property where I cut wood.

Matt

 

[sredlin]

I take whatever pine I can get if it is free or someone pays me to remove it. I like the smell of it and what I get I mix in with wood with greater density. The only drawback for me is that when bucking and splitting it the sap is kind of a mess but not bad enough to ignore the free fuel.

 

[Knotdodger]

Thanks for the reply's fella's.

Looking for a stove right now too sit infront of my masonary fireplace. Would really like to try a soapstone. Went to a couple dealers and priced some , think maybee I will get a used stove just too see how well it will work... Then probably a new one some day..... hehe 2 grand or 3 is alot of cash for a working man... Your right ,,, the best wood is free wood... Right on.

 

[blis]

Did anyone realize that evergreens, meaning pine/spruce/firs, are the main source of wood in Alaska??? There's VERY little hardwood, and by that it's only a very small amount of birch and popple. Anybody that says you can't burn has NO clue about wood period. It should be seasoned or at least dried a little, and normally when you burn it you'd want to make sure it's burning hot enough. Ponderosa pine has good very good BTU value, better than birch as a matter of fact and poplar... The entire state of AK can't be wrong, and I think we'd hear about tons of homes burning down from chimney fires up there if it were that much of a problem. Heck, I've always burned anything I could get my hands on. It's heat, isn't that the main idea in it. They make guages for your chimney that will tell you the heat ranges to prevent creosote buildup. If burned alot, a chimney can burn out and it won't hurt anything. The problem arrives when the ceramic lining is broken or cracked, then the creosote will seep out and cause the fire. If you have a good chimney that's cleaned every year, as well as burning hot enough, you can burn anything in your stove. Ignore the people that say different. A million people can't all be wrong...

eh?

over here pine and SPRUCE are commonly used as firewood, allthou birch is preferred. but pine and spruce are fine for burning, oh, and that creosote point isnt true either since creosote is created when burning without enough air (that is common over there i believe with dampers and forced air furnaces etc..), over here we dont do that and we have no creosote problems...

 

[Tesen]

over here pine and SPRUCE are commonly used as firewood, allthou birch is preferred. but pine and spruce are fine for burning, oh, and that creosote point isnt true either since creosote is created when burning without enough air (that is common over there i believe with dampers and forced air furnaces etc..), over here we dont do that and we have no creosote problems...

Keep it hot, keep the air flowing and you have no problems. This year I am burning a mixture of oak (slab) and red pine. I was really not prepared for this year (equipment failures, i.e. trucks) but all fixed now. The slab wood has been sitting for about a year and one half now, so it burns really well The pine is a lil unseasoned, but is doing okay in my hotblast, just mix in dry hardwood and load the pine logs around/on top.

This coming season I'll be burning all hardwood, have a little one coming in March and we need to make sure we keep him warm

Tes

 

[max2cam]

Just to add that I burn lots of jack pine and like it very much. Good easy quick hot fires in the morning to warm up the house FAST.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

Info from the website I posted previously

A: You hear all sorts of negative things about softwoods. Some have basis in fact, and some don't. The folks who live here in the Pacific Northwest, and other places where hardwood species don't proliferate, burn softwoods. A lot of Pine, a lot of Alder. I personally try to find as much Birch and Maple as I can, but usually end up burning mostly Douglas Fir. Contrary to popular folklore, we softwood-burners haven't blown ourselves up, and our children don't have webbed toes. Here's some legends you hear about softwoods, and the facts.
1) Softwoods cause more creosote to form in the chimney.
False. The creosote issue is about dryness of the wood more than anything. The high resin (pitch) content of certain Fir species actually gasifies readily, and burns hot and clean. It doesn't "turn into creosote" in the chimney, as some folks would have you believe. HOWEVER: high resin content can slow the seasoning time for the wood, so pitchy wood needs more time in the woodshed before it is dry enough to burn properly. I think people who are used to quick-seasoning hardwoods simply don't give Fir enough time to season, and wind up burning it while its moisture content is too high. Resulting in heavy creosote formation, and the popularity of this urban legend.
2) Softwoods don't have any heat value.
False. Actually, all wood species have about the same heat value, pound for pound. But, if you'll have another look at our fuelwood chart, you'll notice that a cord of hardwood weighs more than a cord of softwood. High-density hardwoods are heavier than low-density softwoods, so a full load in the stove weighs more and has more heat value. This means you have to burn more PIECES of softwood to heat the same area, but you're burning about the same WEIGHT of wood fiber. Admittedly, at a certain point you have to factor in the frequent loading necessary to heat with the bottom-of-the-chart species, and decide if the extra effort is worth it. I mean, you wouldn't want to have to heat your house by burning Balsa wood.
3) Softwoods form a lot of ash.
True, in some cases. Some Fir species have extra-thick bark, which, when burned, leaves a lot of ash behind (sort of like paper does). Many people here in the Northwest who burn Fir, for example, will remove the bark during the splitting & stacking process (the really thick stuff pops right off) so they don't have to shovel their stoves out so frequently.
4) Softwoods burn smokier.
False. In fact, the super-low emissions numbers scored by today's EPA approved woodstoves were all achieved while burning Pine.
5) You can't hold a fire all night with softwoods.
Partially true, due to the same fact discussed in #2 above: when you bank your fire at night, you can't get as many pounds of softwood into your stove as you can hardwood. It takes a tightly-constructed stove with a decent size firebox to go the night on a load of softwood.
6) Softwood burns too hot, and can damage your stove.
Some glimmer of truth here, pertaining specifically to some extra-high-resin Fir woods like Fatwood or Cedar. Due to the high combustibility of wood pitch, these species want to burn HOT and FAST. One trick to compensate for this is to mix these with other species in the same load. Many people simply split them up extra-small and use them as kindling, because they ignite so readily and burn so hot. A third technique is to turn the stove's draft control down a little further than usual to keep the fire under control. This third technique requires some care that you don't turn the draft control down too far and smolder the fire, or excessive creosote formation will result (which is another reason softwoods get the creosote rap discussed in #1 above).

 

[Mikecutstrees]

From chemicals previous post..."How hot a fire is does really NOT matter.

The reason you have a hot fire is to keep the creosote dissolved in the smoke HOT enough so the creosote which is WATER and solid and liquid organics, will NOT condense on the side of your pipe and can be exhausted out the top of the pipe. Having a 'hot fire' does NOT reduce the amount of creosote to any great degree, but moves its condensation stage OUTSIDE your pipe."

I don't really understand this quote chemical.... you say the temp of the fire does not matter but then you contradict yourself by saying that if the fire is hot enough creosote will be exausted out the top of the chiminey. I don't really care about creasote unless it is stuck to the inside of my chimny.... so your just being picky and arguing about points that don't matter.

"Since we are talking about pine and 'hot' now we can talk about how hot it is not. In the 'good information' thread above is listed the BTU's per cord with pine being only in the 17's while most other woods are in the 20's. That means that no matter what you do with pine and no matter what the airflow, for many that IS NOT HOT ENOUGH to keep the creosote from condensing in the pipe as somebody said. No matter how much air you have you CANNOT get pine to burn any hotter as that is a set equation due to the chemical and physical properties of the pine. The reason you do have more air is so the airflow is FASTER and that faster moving exhaust helps carry more of the dissolved creosote out of the chimney. That does not make the pine nor the fire any hotter no matter what the airflow."... Also from chemical

I think you are confused here too BTU's and the temperature of the burn are two very different things. Two different materials may have the same energy content (BTU) but may burn at different rates giving off their energy at different rates. So a combustible material (such as pine) may burn hot and quick and give off it's energy quickly. Also a given volume of pine (Cord) has less energy than the same volume of other woods (Such as oak, ash, or maple) ,but it doesn't mean that pine does not burn hot.

I think that the pine you have burned was not properly seasoned since pine and other softwoods take longer to season. The problem is you are trying to prove your hypothesis using incorrect and misguided science.