CEU Ripoff
- Thread starter lxt
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I think I understand you - you're saying that if you get all your required CEUs through the ISA articles and sending in the questions, you're answering more questions than you did for the original test. And you have to pay for the questions because the magazine they come in isn't free. Doesn't sound like a good deal, I agree.
However, I don't send in any test questions and have all my CEUs in 12 or 18 months. Seminars, local and regional events, presentations, blah blah. I see the same dudes around all the time, so I'm not the only one. Good climbing or rigging courses when I can afford it. I figure that other CA's I meet are doing the same. If your only training or continuing education is reading magazines, that's not enough. If you don't need training ever, and stay sharp and up to date just from your job, then you don't need any ISA credentials because you're the man. Tree care is not rocket science, but how else can you show that you're 'on the path' of learning about trees, that you're an 'arborist'. Its great if your reputation alone will be enough. Where I am, most think an arborist is a member of the woodwind section, so it doesn't matter as much as my reputation, but I have both.
If you need training but can't afford it, then do the little quizzes until you can. Go to 1 serious event or course a year, and you're done. Maybe volunteer at a TCC. .
I don't blame you for looking hard for value, especially in a certification for our 'trade'. Also sucks that you 'have' to get the certification to get work in your area, but there's other reasons to ##### about ISA certification. There are even more reasons to ##### about the value of your Bachelor's, and even more if its above. . .
However, I don't send in any test questions and have all my CEUs in 12 or 18 months. Seminars, local and regional events, presentations, blah blah. I see the same dudes around all the time, so I'm not the only one. Good climbing or rigging courses when I can afford it. I figure that other CA's I meet are doing the same. If your only training or continuing education is reading magazines, that's not enough. If you don't need training ever, and stay sharp and up to date just from your job, then you don't need any ISA credentials because you're the man. Tree care is not rocket science, but how else can you show that you're 'on the path' of learning about trees, that you're an 'arborist'. Its great if your reputation alone will be enough. Where I am, most think an arborist is a member of the woodwind section, so it doesn't matter as much as my reputation, but I have both.
If you need training but can't afford it, then do the little quizzes until you can. Go to 1 serious event or course a year, and you're done. Maybe volunteer at a TCC. .
I don't blame you for looking hard for value, especially in a certification for our 'trade'. Also sucks that you 'have' to get the certification to get work in your area, but there's other reasons to ##### about ISA certification. There are even more reasons to ##### about the value of your Bachelor's, and even more if its above. . .
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
If your goal in life is to remain a tree garbageman (er sanitation engineer) and just do takedowns and dead limb amputations then....you are wasting your money on certification, mags, questions, maybe even this forum. But as usual we will hear from you when the hacks are knocking on doors stealing all your tree garbage and amputated dead things and associated bottom feeder revenues.
Lots (lots) of us out there are going to the seminars and reading cover to cover and, hey, cracking books open on a daily basis....because we love trees (don't even think we can't hang with the BEST on takedowns either) and the more you learn the more interesting it gets. The credits attained are just incidental and a very small part of all that is studied in the period.
If you think you know it all and you answered all the appropriate questions during the BIG TEST try reading "Diagnosis and Prognosis of the Development of Wood Decay in Urban Trees" by Francic Schwarze. By the time you get to know all it contains you will never remove a tree that has a benign infection due to overreaction. You will know you belong on the hi dolla properties.
Lots (lots) of us out there are going to the seminars and reading cover to cover and, hey, cracking books open on a daily basis....because we love trees (don't even think we can't hang with the BEST on takedowns either) and the more you learn the more interesting it gets. The credits attained are just incidental and a very small part of all that is studied in the period.
If you think you know it all and you answered all the appropriate questions during the BIG TEST try reading "Diagnosis and Prognosis of the Development of Wood Decay in Urban Trees" by Francic Schwarze. By the time you get to know all it contains you will never remove a tree that has a benign infection due to overreaction. You will know you belong on the hi dolla properties.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sorry you are so bitter, and mean spirited to the lesser treemen out there, like me. I have been called worse things by better people, so, no offence taken.
But, if you perform all aspects of tree work, the most high end, and esteemed work, pruning and massaging trees, along with the takedowns, how do you figure you can hang with the BEST doing takedowns? I mean, if one is a garbage man, bottom feeder, etc, a removal guy, you would figure they would have it down when it comes to removals, no?
And don't you feel dirty when you do removals, like you are slumming, removals being bottom feeder work and all?
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this thread has become derailed, just so you know. We started talking about CEU's for ISA CA's. (that's a lot of C's and A's. . ) There's some issues there, like what are good ways of getting useful CEU's that make the certification meaningful and useful. That might be worth a discussion.
Now we're (you), are talking about a divide between tree guys who do lots of removals vs. those who don't do quite as many removals. That's another thread, just so you know. ( Just because I prune some fruit trees certain times in the year doesn't mean I can't speedline a big chunk of fir during others. Just because I can climb SRT doesn't mean I can't wear spurs when I have to. . .)
If all you do is bad arse removals with big rigging and technical falling, your lifespan is in the industry is limited. If you're a CUA, you already have a nicely regulated certification, but maybe the type of jobs you get are limited. . Makes sense. Hopefully you get to do mostly bucket work when you get older. Maybe down the road you can do assessments and management, stay out of the spurs when you're 55. Must be some kind of certification or badge you can get to set you apart from others when it comes time for setting that up for yourself.
Keep your low self esteem out of the discussion. Take your meds and say hi to your mama for me.
Now we're (you), are talking about a divide between tree guys who do lots of removals vs. those who don't do quite as many removals. That's another thread, just so you know. ( Just because I prune some fruit trees certain times in the year doesn't mean I can't speedline a big chunk of fir during others. Just because I can climb SRT doesn't mean I can't wear spurs when I have to. . .)
If all you do is bad arse removals with big rigging and technical falling, your lifespan is in the industry is limited. If you're a CUA, you already have a nicely regulated certification, but maybe the type of jobs you get are limited. . Makes sense. Hopefully you get to do mostly bucket work when you get older. Maybe down the road you can do assessments and management, stay out of the spurs when you're 55. Must be some kind of certification or badge you can get to set you apart from others when it comes time for setting that up for yourself.
Keep your low self esteem out of the discussion. Take your meds and say hi to your mama for me.
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jomoco
Tree Freak
If yu really wanna tick TV off Clearance, just mention the ancient and highly respected and documented history of the fine arboreal art of pollarding.
He'll pull out his hair and run screaming into his ivory tower located on a very well to do private estate.
Yes indeed, the art of pollarding, practiced by lowlife peasants and the king's alike for centuries!
How do you and your ISA colleagues truly feel about properly practiced pollarding Treevet?
Are there CEU's available for a course in pollarding from the ISA?
jomoco
He'll pull out his hair and run screaming into his ivory tower located on a very well to do private estate.
Yes indeed, the art of pollarding, practiced by lowlife peasants and the king's alike for centuries!
How do you and your ISA colleagues truly feel about properly practiced pollarding Treevet?
Are there CEU's available for a course in pollarding from the ISA?
jomoco
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treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am not bitter at all and, yes, I take out the garbage too. I just have diversified to learn to help the trees that do not need the axe unlike you.
You spike perfectly healthy trees and make them unhealthy (and often brag about it). You not only remove the garbage but you turn trees into garbage. You cut off limbs that are unfortunate to be aimed in the wrong direction. You are likely the one that feels bitter (about yourself) and rightfully so.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
I thought your post before this was not to bad, now you are insulting me. Thats fine, I moved a little closer to you now, we will meet up. No hard feelings, I am beyond that. Maybe we can go for coffee and talk.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tell me about pollarding.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Interesting that this thread would bring out your soapbox on topping (you call pollarding). You used to be the self proclaimed expert on cabling and have run out of material I take it. Another ISA basher with a limited knowledge data bank.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Jon's standing in the background on his soapbox. You two are made for each other.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
:hmm3grin2orange:
ok, I know better than to reference one's mama. I take that part back. Everyone here is a professional, and lxt has a hard time with CEU's and maybe the ISA in general. How can we help him?
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
http://on-line-seminars.com/
Thought I had an answer early on in this thread. Free credits that can be had in the time it takes to re cert. and good mtls.
Thought I had an answer early on in this thread. Free credits that can be had in the time it takes to re cert. and good mtls.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Me and my mom do not get along at all, so, its the lack of repect to me by saying that which bothers me, not the insult to my mom. Some guys would be in thier truck, speeding to Esquimalt to find you, but not me. Apology excepted.
As far as helping LXT, I lke the guy, I can't help him as far as the ISA goes, I would advise him to give up on it. But that probably isn't the answer you are looking for. As far as me being a professional, well, that word is much abused. I am just a hard working, half decent tree guy. Nothing special.
Yep. I'm in exactly the same spot, except I have a little more time.
jomoco
Tree Freak
Well Clearance, a few centuries ago pollarding certain varieties of trees on an annual basis provided poor peasants with a uniform wood size sprout of an ideal length and suppleness once boiled to weave into utility baskets that could be sold or traded for food. This is thought to be the very origins of pollarding for a commercial end user product.
It was also practiced in the gardens of royal courts and estates along with espaliering and topiary training of trees and shrubs. There is actually an ancient english estate's documentation of properly pollarded plane trees outliving their brethren in the natural forest.
Of course TV and the ISA look down their noses at pollarding and prefer to pretend that it has no place in modern arboriculture, but the funny thing is that such ridiculous behavior on their part only tends to make their noses grow even longer!
Almost like very snobbish sucker growth!
jomoco
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Is this the practice you refer to Mr. Smarty Pants?
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/topping.aspx
jomoco
Tree Freak
No no no knave!
More like this my pompous bon vivant!
http://ourfrenchgarden.blogspot.com/2009/03/la-ville-de-sarlat.html
jomoco
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
You sneak out of your home/hole in the dark of the night to defend the honor of the address that is T. H. in hopes they might let you in their secret room......not likely.
I show you the literature you detest (ISA) and your response is "no, no, that is not it" (yes it is). Then while speaking French (w t f) you show some properly pollarded trees. What's this got to do with CEU's?
