Adkpk
Addicted to ArboristSite
I take you mean at ISA with my membership discount? Bailey's had that book for sale this summer for $50. Wasn't ready for yet then.
CEU Ripoff
- Thread starter lxt
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I take you mean at ISA with my membership discount? Bailey's had that book for sale this summer for $50. Wasn't ready for yet then.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
It seems if you go to the source it should be cheaper but I am not positive. What I meant was if you bought all his stuff then I know individual books come out the cheapest as part of the set. And if you plan on buying more later then you might regret not saving up for the set.
www.shigoandtrees.com
His daughter has taken over since he passed away.....Judy Shigo.
jomoco
Tree Freak
All the nitty gritty behind closed doors lawyerly details of the new narc off program are outlined here Clearance.
http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/resources/EthicsCaseProcedures.pdf
Complete with everything but curled and coiffed torrey white wigs.
jomoco
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Man, that's some really old news. Seems like you 2 ISA haters woulda been on that long before this.
Long time ago contracts were said to go out to all CA's to sign and return but neither my GM (a CA) nor I ever got one. Anyone ever get this in the mail?
Torrey white wigs?....just a tad melodramatic,,,,maybe even a little corny don't you think?
PS....Whatya doin with that "cabling sighting device" you invented a while back. Looked like it might make for a great row boat anchor.?
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clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks for that.
As you know, I have problems with the utility here (B.C. Hydro) being in the ISA, as a company, and having some of its employees as ISA members. Some of you will remember me beefing over it in the past with others here.
The main issue for me is ISA certified employees of this utility watching utility arborists climb trees with spurs, at all times. I have no problem with this, but when one flies the ISA flag, they should see that treework is done to ISA rules, don't you think? And if they can't make it so, then they should leave the ISA. By staying in it they demean the ISA, and themselves.
Going over old ground, Tom Dunlap advised a manager there that I was "trashing" B.C. Hydro, subsequently Boston Bull called this fellow up and was lied to, big time.
It is more than obviuos that this utilty is violating ethics according to the ISA, and should be investigated. What, with condoning the spurring of trees to trim, lying and so on.
So, who here that is ISA certified, is going to help me clean up the ISA,by getting rid of this unworthy member?
jomoco
Tree Freak
I had my battles with the ISA over 15 years ago in the mid 90's TV.
I'll never forget going to W O Hart Park in Orange county CA to get certified. Some 300 lb fat dude name of brad was running the show there like some lord of the trees, from the ground of course, yelling at the newbies to do this and not that while cracking jokes about them with his fellow "authorities", it made me want to drop a limb on him just to get him to shut up and quit making the newbies nervous in the trees testing that day. He even had the nerve to give me a hard time for doing a picture perfect aerial rescue of the dummy in the tree because according to him, if the rest of the group copied my method of taking the dummy off his rope and bringing him down, it would take too long for the group to finish the aerial rescue portion of the testing. When I got in his face about the stupidity of trusting the dummy's rope after a simulated accident involving a chainsaw, the jerk disqualified me! Ticked me off so much that when I performed it again using the dummies rope, I set the record for fastest aerial rescue at that park!
It was at the same park that day doing the work climb that I noticed the heads of the sycamores they used each year for the work climb testing were actually dying back because of the ropes of the climbers burning the cambium of the trees at the TIP's. I remember thinking to myself, why don't they vary the trees each year rather than using the same trees to the point the heads were dying back? This was the aha moment when I first thought of devising a means of preventing cambial rope burns from bodylines. The year was 1990.
And I had to argue with the bloody ISA for 4 years before they'd even consider including any type of cambium saving devices into their stinking standards.
Many years have passed since I quit the ISA for good, but even now it's obvious to me that they haven't changed their mule headed condescending attitudes one little bit in the least. Their standards allowing the use of J lags to cable softwood trees is a prime example of their mule headed stupidity that could actually get somebody killed despite the work being done to ISA standards!
Don't talk to me about how great and all knowing the authorities at the ISA are TV, because I know better from firsthand experience with them.
jomoco
During
beastmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm just a lowly tree trimmer. I work for other people. I rarely leave the county I live in. I live in a 5th wheel and drive an old car. CEU's are (were)expensive. I have already started on the free seminars(thanks again) So my attitude has mellowed some towards the ISA. I have always looked up to CA's
The test was pretty easy. Lots easier then I would have expected. Now that I is one. I see its not some great achievement. As I once thought. But if a guy has been getting his CEUs for the last ten years, He has had to learn something that has made him a better arborist. Plus, when my other lowly trimmers and grounds men hear I am a CA, I think I finily get a little recognition for all the studying I've done over the years, even if the ISA had nothing to do with it. Yes I'm guilty of telling a customer, I'm a Cert. Arborist. I'm not taking sides. There is room for improvement, but its not all bad.
The test was pretty easy. Lots easier then I would have expected. Now that I is one. I see its not some great achievement. As I once thought. But if a guy has been getting his CEUs for the last ten years, He has had to learn something that has made him a better arborist. Plus, when my other lowly trimmers and grounds men hear I am a CA, I think I finily get a little recognition for all the studying I've done over the years, even if the ISA had nothing to do with it. Yes I'm guilty of telling a customer, I'm a Cert. Arborist. I'm not taking sides. There is room for improvement, but its not all bad.
jo half the stuff you are complaining about are ANSI, not ISA.
but yeah i've seen fat groundbound types teach climbing and it makes me wish more experienced arborists would step up and see it done right.
but yeah i've seen fat groundbound types teach climbing and it makes me wish more experienced arborists would step up and see it done right.
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah those big fat guys can be meanies sometimes. He wasn't very sensitive to your feelings at all 
There are no FREE quizzes, we pay for the magazine through dues!! & now their gonna charge you for the magazine...read the latest arborist news Mag.
Saving bucks is dopey... Hmm should tell GM that, along with many other big businesses.....by re-taking the exam every 3 years & as some here might think....what are you gonna learn doing that?
My answer; Tree Removal hasnt changed the equipment has! making it alot easier than our previous generation who used heavier saws, mannilla rope & other older tools of the trade!
Tree Trimming hasnt changed either, the terminology has!!!!! cabling/bracing and other forms of tree surgery havent changed either, YES the tools & equipment are much better......But, the application & physicality of the trade are the same as it was years ago!!
Now the scientific side of tree care has advanced & will continue too.....SOooo if you want to read & obtain CEU`s for that then knock yourself out, I really dont care too, I am familiar with the main diseases & treatment of such.....there are numerous things to learn at the biological level......remember you`re only a CA.....not a board certified master arborist ooo that sends chills up my back, say it real slow! LOL
We are not professors, or doctors for tree`s & if you think reading them books without any hands on training is going to give you the ability to save the historic Oak in your towns cherished historical district......then you are what I consider laughingly dopey!! go ahead put your slate out....well golley councilman I read this here book by Alex Shigo & got CEU`s for it!
trimming, removals, cabling/bracing,cavity fills, select limb removal along with other aspects of above ground type work will always be my mainstay & like I said its basically unchanged......but you put that untrained book work out there & see how that goes, But hey you got CEU`s!
LXT.................
NO its not!!!! he`s complaining about an ISA test site & the use of the same trees year in and year out causing damage from ropes! he suggested a device that would negate the harm brought to the trees, & suggested it to the ISA to be used at their test sites!
where in the mules rearend are you to relate this to an ANSI matter? cmon! I have the standards Seer & there is no mention in there of cambium saving devices pertaining to ISA test sites.....Hell I dont even think it mentions such at all??? Ill have to look!
LXT..............
We are not professors, or doctors for tree`s & if you think reading them books without any hands on training is going to give you the ability to save the historic Oak in your towns cherished historical district......then you are what I consider laughingly dopey!! go ahead put your slate out....well golley councilman I read this here book by Alex Shigo & got CEU`s for it!
trimming, removals, cabling/bracing,cavity fills, select limb removal along with other aspects of above ground type work will always be my mainstay & like I said its basically unchanged......but you put that untrained book work out there & see how that goes, But hey you got CEU`s!
LXT.................
I'v been saving a large oak in a historic district for a couple of years now. The HO came to me after a "tree garbage man" as TV would say told the customer it needed to come down. It's been doing great!
Whats a cavity fill? Never heard of that before and if it's what think it is then someone's a Dope! I can't believe people think that filling a hollow cavity with cement or foam is going to help the tree from rotting. HA!
treevet
Addicted to ArboristSite
Now the scientific side of tree care has advanced & will continue too.....SOooo if you want to read & obtain CEU`s for that then knock yourself out, I really dont care too, I am familiar with the main diseases & treatment of such.....there are numerous things to learn at the biological level......remember you`re only a CA.....not a board certified master arborist ooo that sends chills up my back, say it real slow! LOL
We are not professors, or doctors for tree`s & if you think reading them books without any hands on training is going to give you the ability to save the historic Oak in your towns cherished historical district......then you are what I consider laughingly dopey!! go ahead put your slate out....well golley councilman I read this here book by Alex Shigo & got CEU`s for it!
trimming, removals, cabling/bracing,cavity fills, select limb removal along with other aspects of above ground type work will always be my mainstay & like I said its basically unchanged......but you put that untrained book work out there & see how that goes, But hey you got CEU`s!
LXT.................
Boy, ain't nobody gonna hold you back in life......you'll take care of that yourself, thank you very much.
Your life is so simple (only gonna learn what the entry level info requires) that.......................even a Caveman can do it. :monkey:
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well, there TV and others, wanna clean up the ISA, get rid off the unworthy? So you can begin restoring some credibility, you know, walk the walk and all that.
mckeetree
Addicted to ArboristSite
There are no FREE quizzes, we pay for the magazine through dues!! & now their gonna charge you for the magazine...read the latest arborist news Mag.
Saving bucks is dopey... Hmm should tell GM that, along with many other big businesses.....by re-taking the exam every 3 years & as some here might think....what are you gonna learn doing that?
My answer; Tree Removal hasnt changed the equipment has! making it alot easier than our previous generation who used heavier saws, mannilla rope & other older tools of the trade!
Tree Trimming hasnt changed either, the terminology has!!!!! cabling/bracing and other forms of tree surgery havent changed either, YES the tools & equipment are much better......But, the application & physicality of the trade are the same as it was years ago!!
Now the scientific side of tree care has advanced & will continue too.....SOooo if you want to read & obtain CEU`s for that then knock yourself out, I really dont care too, I am familiar with the main diseases & treatment of such.....there are numerous things to learn at the biological level......remember you`re only a CA.....not a board certified master arborist ooo that sends chills up my back, say it real slow! LOL
We are not professors, or doctors for tree`s & if you think reading them books without any hands on training is going to give you the ability to save the historic Oak in your towns cherished historical district......then you are what I consider laughingly dopey!! go ahead put your slate out....well golley councilman I read this here book by Alex Shigo & got CEU`s for it!
trimming, removals, cabling/bracing,cavity fills, select limb removal along with other aspects of above ground type work will always be my mainstay & like I said its basically unchanged......but you put that untrained book work out there & see how that goes, But hey you got CEU`s!
LXT.................
I print things out from here from time to time to use as sales tools. Kind of a "See, they're out there. If you don't believe me, look at this." This is a good one to print and keep. Why would anyone want to get on here and make such an assclown of themselves?
Sunrise Guy
Addicted to ArboristSite
There are no FREE quizzes, we pay for the magazine through dues!! & now their gonna charge you for the magazine...read the latest arborist news Mag.
Saving bucks is dopey... Hmm should tell GM that, along with many other big businesses.....by re-taking the exam every 3 years & as some here might think....what are you gonna learn doing that?
My answer; Tree Removal hasnt changed the equipment has! making it alot easier than our previous generation who used heavier saws, mannilla rope & other older tools of the trade!
Tree Trimming hasnt changed either, the terminology has!!!!! cabling/bracing and other forms of tree surgery havent changed either, YES the tools & equipment are much better......But, the application & physicality of the trade are the same as it was years ago!!
Now the scientific side of tree care has advanced & will continue too.....SOooo if you want to read & obtain CEU`s for that then knock yourself out, I really dont care too, I am familiar with the main diseases & treatment of such.....there are numerous things to learn at the biological level......remember you`re only a CA.....not a board certified master arborist ooo that sends chills up my back, say it real slow! LOL
We are not professors, or doctors for tree`s & if you think reading them books without any hands on training is going to give you the ability to save the historic Oak in your towns cherished historical district......then you are what I consider laughingly dopey!! go ahead put your slate out....well golley councilman I read this here book by Alex Shigo & got CEU`s for it!
trimming, removals, cabling/bracing,cavity fills, select limb removal along with other aspects of above ground type work will always be my mainstay & like I said its basically unchanged......but you put that untrained book work out there & see how that goes, But hey you got CEU`s!
LXT.................
I am in a situation, here, where words fail me. Those who know me, on here, can pretty much figure out what I might say about the above, but I must let it slide, or get banned. LXT, you are one very cool dude, no doubt about it. I envy your customer base. How lucky they are to have found you for their tree work. I am now out of this thread, for good, and I won't let the door hit me in the :censored:!
M.D. Vaden
vadenphotography.com
Seems that going right back to the first post may be a path to take again.
In short, a responsible arborist would probably be attending enough extra seminars, or buying books, or buying magazines, or attending extra classes, etc.. to have more than enough CEUs without ever being asked to go and get CEUs.
And since we have established that those can be gained for as little as free, we can see that CEUs are not a ripoff.
Some years I've had almost double what I would need, without even trying, because learning is fun and interesting.
"jo half the stuff you are complaining about are ANSI, not ISA."
lxt, "jo" is jomoco. But speaking of mules' rearends, the notion that tree work is 'basically unchanged' in the past several years shows that someone has not been paying attention.
:notrolls2:
lxt, "jo" is jomoco. But speaking of mules' rearends, the notion that tree work is 'basically unchanged' in the past several years shows that someone has not been paying attention.
:notrolls2:
jomoco
Tree Freak
Hey Treeseer, what are ANSI committees comprised of my knowledgeable friend? How many ANSI committees dealing with arboricultural issues even allow non-ISA members to sit on them?
jomoco
jomoco
Even I can see that tree care has changed...and I don't work in the field as more than an amateur...sure the equipment has improved, but so has technique...just a few years back pollarding was a normal accepted thing,
and no one ced if you flush cut a branch, ruining the collar...painting over
cut ends was the way to go...
yeh..it's changed...the physical action of removing tree might not have changed much, but the art and science have certainly advanced...
and no one ced if you flush cut a branch, ruining the collar...painting over
cut ends was the way to go...
yeh..it's changed...the physical action of removing tree might not have changed much, but the art and science have certainly advanced...
