Dangerous Tree Comes Down

[Blazin]

Ya ever pound a wedge in and watch it just mush into the tree? LOL

I help out a mountain biking organization clear and maintain trails; on new trails, one of the things we have to do is clear any/all snags within reaching distance. Had one a few months back that leaned towards the trail and I really didn't want to make more of a mess, so I tried falling it away; hoped I could find a little good wood inside for a wedge... Got a face in, started the back cut, got a wedge in, proceeded with back cut and all of a sudden, hit a pocket of pure mush! Tree sat right down on the bar; tried driving in the wedge and watched in sink into the surrounding wood like a sponge Ended up popping the powerhead off, grabbing another saw, and cutting a new face a foot higher 180° around the tree, (now with the lean) and falling the thing back the other way right across the trail. Should've just done that from the start and planned on bucking it up, rather than trying to get cute!

Obviously you didn't use the right wedge or Ax to drive it like defined in the "book"

 

[Blazin]

2 box minimum...
If I do it..
I promise to post it in the logging forum...

There better be a sloping farmer back cut or I'm not not watching it

 

[Hedgerow]

There better be a sloping farmer back cut or I'm not not watching it

I know that somewhere, there's a logger who invented that cut, but he ain't copping to it...

Nate??? Who did it???

 

[Blazin]

I know that somewhere, there's a logger who invented that cut, but he ain't copping to it...

Nate??? Who did it???

Bob did, he just won't admit too it

 

[Hedgerow]

I got a whole fencerow to tip into the field this weekend...
They all have to be cut at 4' or higher so the dozer can get a fit on em'...
After I dump em' I'll cut the tops at an angle and get a pic of 100 trees in a row with sloping cuts, then put it on the L&F Forum...
That aught to be fun...

 

[Metals406]

I know that somewhere, there's a logger who invented that cut, but he ain't copping to it...

Nate??? Who did it???

I'm not sure who exactly. . . But I'm fairly certain he was shitfaced drunk when he did.

 

[Hedgerow]

I'm not sure who exactly. . . But I'm fairly certain he was shitfaced drunk when he did.

.

 

[KiwiBro]

All you North, North Western, North Eastern, Western, Eastern, Nor North Western, Nor North Eastern fallers haven't a clue.

Anyone here down South can piss further than yous fellas in our sleep.

 

[Metals406]

All you North, North Western, North Eastern, Western, Eastern, Nor North Western, Nor North Eastern fallers haven't a clue.

Anyone here down South can piss further than yous fellas in our sleep.

You damn Kiwi's did invent timbersports afterall.

 

[KiwiBro]

And sheep sports, but that's a different story.

 

[flyboy553]

Who let Kiwi in to the beer cooler, dang it!

Ted

 

[KiwiBro]

Who let Kiwi in to the beer cooler, dang it!

Ted

Hey, I resemble that. Besides, I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

 

[lfnh]

I got a whole fencerow to tip into the field this weekend...
They all have to be cut at 4' or higher so the dozer can get a fit on em'...
After I dump em' I'll cut the tops at an angle and get a pic of 100 trees in a row with sloping cuts, then put it on the L&F Forum...
That aught to be fun...

Sounds good.
Dinner and a movie Saturday night. Put my reservations in now.
What time ?

 

[unclemoustache]

Well, I waded through all pages, and skimmed most everything but the arguing. It's hard to say how I would have done the tree, but I learned some good stuff by watching the vid and hearing the comments, but I'm ignorant enough to ask some tough questions here.

1. The text books say that a proper face cut should be about 25% - 30% of the way through the tree, yet the OP vid and slowp's first vid (didn't watch the others - sorry) show very deep face cuts - nearly 50%. Now I'm not adverse to breaking the rules for there are times when rules should be broken, but before breaking a rule, one must fully understand the reasons for the rule in the first place. Can someone explain why the books tell us to make such shallow face cuts when it seems to me that a deeper notch would be better in most cases? And similarly can slowp (or anyone) explain why her friend in the first vid made such deep notches? Is it normally better to do deeper notches on back leaners?

2. Everyone seems to be condemning the sloping back cut, but can someone tell me WHY?

3. A related question - with this particular tree the wedge was not fully removed, so it seems to me the chances of the tree slipping back are greatly increased, so that in this instance, it seems that a sloping back cut would indeed be a possible preventive measure. Your thoughts?

 

[lfnh]

You damn Kiwi's did invent timbersports afterall.

Yeah, ok.
But they did come over here for the skinny on wedging..
and there was some good posts that cover alot of ground on that thread.

Nice to see ya around Kiwi,

 

[Nuzzy]

Well, I waded through all pages, and skimmed most everything but the arguing. It's hard to say how I would have done the tree, but I learned some good stuff by watching the vid and hearing the comments, but I'm ignorant enough to ask some tough questions here.

1. The text books say that a proper face cut should be about 25% - 30% of the way through the tree, yet the OP vid and slowp's first vid (didn't watch the others - sorry) show very deep face cuts - nearly 50%. Now I'm not adverse to breaking the rules for there are times when rules should be broken, but before breaking a rule, one must fully understand the reasons for the rule in the first place. Can someone explain why the books tell us to make such shallow face cuts when it seems to me that a deeper notch would be better in most cases? And similarly can slowp (or anyone) explain why her friend in the first vid made such deep notches? Is it normally better to do deeper notches on back leaners?

2. Everyone seems to be condemning the sloping back cut, but can someone tell me WHY?

3. A related question - with this particular tree the wedge was not fully removed, so it seems to me the chances of the tree slipping back are greatly increased, so that in this instance, it seems that a sloping back cut would indeed be a possible preventive measure. Your thoughts?

1. 1/3 face is a great place to start, and will cover the highest percentage of trees just fine. One effect of a deep notch is that wedges will move the tree top more due to the fulcrum it creates; the wedges will be harder to drive though.

2. One big reason is it disallows the effective use of wedges. A wedge driven in a sloped backcut will apply force to the hinge and likely break it prematurely, rather than do any lifting of the tree.

3. A standard even backcut a few inches above the horizontal face will be far more adept at providing kick back protection. There simply is no good reason for a sloping backcut. As a side note, it's faster to cut wood fibers straight across rather than diagonally; thus, if one's goal is to make it through the backcut as fast as possible (as it should be with a head leaner), it would behoove them to cut horizontally. There really is no excuse for leaving the face wedge in though.

 

[Metals406]

Josh, besides the already mentioned, it's also a lot easier to cut your hinge off coming in at an angle -- it's harder to read horizontal distance when you're angling in. I've seen it in the woods a bunch, where the hinge was cut off, and they lost directional control.

Besides wedging, and missing the hinge -- angled back cuts are just universally known to be unprofessional. That's really the long of the short.

I'm sure with some deep thought, more reasons could be had for not doing it too.

 

[Hedgerow]

1. 1/3 face is a great place to start, and will cover the highest percentage of trees just fine. One effect of a deep notch is that wedges will move the tree top more due to the fulcrum it creates; the wedges will be harder to drive though.

2. One big reason is it disallows the effective use of wedges. A wedge driven in a sloped backcut will apply force to the hinge and likely break it prematurely, rather than do any lifting of the tree.

3. A standard even backcut a few inches above the horizontal face will be far more adept at providing kick back protection. There simply is no good reason for a sloping backcut. As a side note, it's faster to cut wood fibers straight across rather than diagonally; thus, if one's goal is to make it through the backcut as fast as possible (as it should be with a head leaner), it would behoove them to cut horizontally. There really is no excuse for leaving the face wedge in though.

Having to leave the face wedge in messed everything up...

Absolutely...

This sloping back cut thing has bugged me for years...
It's not that it's terrible, it's that it's of no help whatsoever...
Other than its a hinderance to speed in the back cut...
If one wants to move a back leaner, you want to lift a tree past the tipping point, not push it...
This does require some strong fibers though..
Trying to lift wedging rotten wood is a screaming waste of time...

 

[Hedgerow]

Sounds good.
Dinner and a movie Saturday night. Put my reservations in now.
What time ?

Let's shoot for Monday evening...
I could post it and just let it dangle...
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

 

[lfnh]

dirty deeds done dirt cheap. ok, gotcha!