If you watch the cottonwood/hornets video, you can see how he took the face cut out in chunks and even cut into it so he could get the chunk with the nail out. That might have worked for the Ohio tree.
Dangerous Tree Comes Down
- Thread starter Bushmans
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
The sloping backcut (for me) is on the same level as the old wives' tale that one can catch a cold (a virus) by standing in the cold (a temperature). 
It creates an ugly stump.
It's slower.
It creates an ugly butt on the log.
It's harder to line up.
You can't wedge well with it.
Did I mention it's ugly?
Its ONLY claim to fame is the perception it'll prevent kickback, and it doesn't even do THAT well! Most certainly not better than the alternative.
It creates an ugly stump.
It's slower.
It creates an ugly butt on the log.
It's harder to line up.
You can't wedge well with it.
Did I mention it's ugly?
Its ONLY claim to fame is the perception it'll prevent kickback, and it doesn't even do THAT well! Most certainly not better than the alternative.
Thanks for the answers. I was afraid that the main reason for avoiding the sloping back cut was "it's ugly" but as you all know, pretty stumps aren't the goal.
Just for the record, I've never done a sloping back cut, although I'm sure I've done other dumb things with a saw.
Just for the record, I've never done a sloping back cut, although I'm sure I've done other dumb things with a saw.
Hedgerow
HACK
Like juggling them??
20lbs of tannerite.I need you to come visit for a couple days Nate...
I got this dead Elm tree I been tap dancing around...
I'm afraid to even poke it with the loader...
I'll hold the camera...
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
I read the majority of the last two pages last night and got mighty pizzed!
I sat down and started writing a scathing admonition and about the time I finished I read it back to myself and thought "Dang that makes me sound as snotty and condescending as they are".
Did you ever stop to wonder where the "farmer cut" came from?
Or why it is still in use?
Now I have no doubt that it originated in the days of felling with axes, but why did it stay in vogue when the crosscut saw replaced the axe? Or when the chainsaw replaced the crosscut?
If you folks will just think about it, you'll realize that the old timers didn't do anything without a reason.
I can give you 2 REAL good reasons why but that would be too easy.
Let's see if you can "reason the reason".
I'll give you this one hint.
To those of you who have been so openly critical, I'll never rent you a mule and you'll never cut so much as a match stick on MY hillside.
Mike
I sat down and started writing a scathing admonition and about the time I finished I read it back to myself and thought "Dang that makes me sound as snotty and condescending as they are".
Did you ever stop to wonder where the "farmer cut" came from?
Or why it is still in use?
Now I have no doubt that it originated in the days of felling with axes, but why did it stay in vogue when the crosscut saw replaced the axe? Or when the chainsaw replaced the crosscut?
If you folks will just think about it, you'll realize that the old timers didn't do anything without a reason.
I can give you 2 REAL good reasons why but that would be too easy.
Let's see if you can "reason the reason".
I'll give you this one hint.
To those of you who have been so openly critical, I'll never rent you a mule and you'll never cut so much as a match stick on MY hillside.
Mike
Blazin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
Bushmans
Smoke Dragon Herder
I've been thinking real hard on why the old timers used it but to no avail. So I started researching and came across this little video on sloping back cuts and holding wood strength. I think it's a great little way to explain it to some of us "noobs" as someone so lightly put it before!
Toddppm
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think it just gives the false impression that it's helping send the tree over because it's sloping and somehow pushing the trunk over with the angle.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I'm interested to hear your reasons for the sloping back cut Mike, but sure I agree with that line. I spend a fair amount of time learning about traditional tools and methods and have come to understand the truth of that.
Mopar:
I know it was to ease skidding with a mule. That chunk off the butt end made it less likely to snag on the ground as it was being dragged.
The thing is though, the people who do it nowadays have no clue that that's what it was for. They just do "cuz that's how it's done".
I can reason the reasons, but they don't apply, so I don't use them. It's generally a good idea to know the reason you are doing something a certain way. That way, you can be mindful of pitfalls and open to other ideas. Don't get tunnel vision and miss a critical safety issue.
I know it was to ease skidding with a mule. That chunk off the butt end made it less likely to snag on the ground as it was being dragged.
The thing is though, the people who do it nowadays have no clue that that's what it was for. They just do "cuz that's how it's done".
I can reason the reasons, but they don't apply, so I don't use them. It's generally a good idea to know the reason you are doing something a certain way. That way, you can be mindful of pitfalls and open to other ideas. Don't get tunnel vision and miss a critical safety issue.
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
That and the erosion issue when logging these Kentucky hillsides.
This video should give you a good idea of how badly a butt cut log can tear up the ground.
Look at 1:04 and see the way this little pecker pole digs into the ground. Imagine if it were a real log.
Here is another that should give you an Idea what I'm talking about.
Notice the butt end of the log at :37 and the extremely small (for the size of the log) trail it leaves when the horses drag it.
Mike
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
In the old days, they didn't have TV for shows like axemen, etc, so slopping back cutters were the celebrity reality show stars of their day. Folk came from three counties away to watch assorted jackasses of their generation compete to see who could created the steepest angles and live to tell the tale?
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
Joking aside, that is an interesting history lesson. Certainly makes sense for the time period.
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
There's a touch of that snotty assed condescending attitude I referred to before.
And from someone who isn't even smart enough to make a good hillbilly!!!
It would sure be nice if I could buy you for what you're worth and sell you for half of what you think you're worth!
Mike
rms61moparman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Joking aside, that is an interesting history lesson. Certainly makes sense for the time period.
It's still just as relevant today if you are logging or firewooding a hillside.
All you need to do is snag a root or rock when snaking a log up a hillside.
What happens next is the chain tightens up, the governor opens up on the tractor which raises the front wheels off the ground. Unless you have a tractor with a differential lock, the power is transferred to the right wheel and the tractor turns back downhill really fast. Now you have a runaway tractor going toward the bottom of the hill at a high rate of speed and a log behind you in a drag race.....literally. Things get really nasty really quick.
Mike
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Settle, Petal.
Life's way too short to get wound up over such a pathetic issue like this.
Dalmatian90
Addicted to ArboristSite
Am I missing something, or is there a reason you can't make the angled cut once the tree is on the ground -- keeping the better control of a standard back cut and the ease to skid of an angled butt. You're going to lose the same amount of log either way. The sloping back cut is going to land facing up anyways, so you or your team are going to need to roll the log over anyways to take advantage of it.
Nuzzy
Trail Gnome
I suppose I would make the argument that tractor skidding is better done with lifting the butt of the log, or using a skidding cone or log arch. I can see using hand tools that making one cut was potentially superior to making additional cuts after the log was down. However, with modern chainsaws, one could whittle away to their hearts content if they want to make a pencil of the butt for skidding. Using a more dangerous felling cut just seems irresponsible.
Then again, farmers are a funny breed. A kin of a friend was more than happy doing a one sloping cut no face straight through every tree he took. When **** went south, he'd just crank up his big tractor and chain that tree right out. Did that for 30 years and never saw fit to change.
