Dilemma....Echo 70cc vs Clone 90cc saw. What would you do?

[bwalker]

When it comes to engine displacement, it seems like Echo saws deliver more power for the same size engine as virtually any other brand. Not sure how they do that, but that is what I have noticed through the years. I first noticed this with an Echo CS-3900 about 24 years ago. Just MHO.

Yea...NO.

 

[bwalker]

Sti

Stihl and Husqy will too, under the same circumstances.

Any saw will do that...

 

[bwalker]

More power is subjective, I think. Echos usually lack chain speed in the high end bands, which can translate to less power. An example is the cs680, at 66.7cc with a 20 inch bar it'll most likely cut behind an ms261 in 12 inch wood but the same saw will still pull a 36 inch bar , buried better than an ms400. Just depends on how you run the saws. I find Echo saws a pleasure to run, even after running all the other latest and greatest Stihl and Husqy stuff. Some people hate them. I talked to a guy the other day who hates Stihl and loves Echo, most likely because he learned on Echos. It's subjective.

It will not pull a 36 bar worth a damn and not better than a 400c for certain.
Equating a slow cutting saw to having more torque to pull a longer bar just isn't so. And no 60 or even 70 cC pulls a 3' bar worth a damn is. Hardwood.

 

[LuDookie]

It will not pull a 36 bar worth a damn and not better than a 400c for certain.
Equating a slow cutting saw to having more torque to pull a longer bar just isn't so. And no 60 or even 70 cC pulls a 3' bar worth a damn is. Hardwood.

That makes it just an argument. I think you’re wrong. And I’m not running a 36 on mine because I know it’s less than optimal, but I’m sticking with it’ll out pull a 400 on a 36 in big wood. I also know the 400 will smoke it in 20 inch wood. May not have a nice ring for Stihl lovers but the 680 is a different animal if you know how to feed it. The 400 is a speed queen.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

That makes it just an argument. I think you’re wrong. And I’m not running a 36 on mine because I know it’s less than optimal, but I’m sticking with it’ll out pull a 400 on a 36 in big wood. I also know the 400 will smoke it in 20 inch wood. May not have a nice ring for Stihl lovers but the 680 is a different animal if you know how to feed it. The 400 is a speed queen.

Do you own a 400?

 

[bwalker]

That makes it just an argument. I think you’re wrong. And I’m not running a 36 on mine because I know it’s less than optimal, but I’m sticking with it’ll out pull a 400 on a 36 in big wood. I also know the 400 will smoke it in 20 inch wood. May not have a nice ring for Stihl lovers but the 680 is a different animal if you know how to feed it. The 400 is a speed queen.

If you lived close id drive over and prove to you what I am saying is true.

 

[StoneyMeadowMaple]

I like turtles…

 

[LuDookie]

Do you own a 400?

I do not. I have access to them though and have spent a few hours behind one recently.

I would never say it’s not a GREAT saw! Right now, a couple of my favorite saws to run are the 500i and the 400, but after spending time with them, they don’t leave me thinking Echos are junk and I’d still prefer to own the 3 series Husqys and think some of the Echo models, even the ones I don’t own, are great saws.

 

[bwalker]

I do not. I have access to them though and have spent a few hours behind one recently.

I would never say it’s not a GREAT saw! Right now, a couple of my favorite saws to run are the 500i and the 400, but after spending time with them, they don’t leave me thinking Echos are junk and I’d still prefer to own the 3 series Husqys and think some of the Echo models, even the ones I don’t own, are great saws.

Clearly, Echo doesn't make junk chainsaws. However, performance wise they are not modern, no matter how you want measure that.

 

[LuDookie]

Clearly, Echo doesn't make junk chainsaws. However, performance wise they are not modern, no matter how you want measure that.

Fair enough

 

[Chucksta]

Clearly, Echo doesn't make junk chainsaws. However, performance wise they are not modern, no matter how you want measure that.

"no matter how you want to measure that"
Well, I measure performance in several ways, and not all ways are of equal importance.
Let me name a few of them ( in no particular order )...

Performance as in power to weight? Sure, power is important, but lugging around an extra pound and a half all day, for no particular reason.. ?? Increased user fatigue for no reason.
Speed through a cut.. Sure, faster is nicer, but just be sure that the comparison is between two saws with identical displacement, identical gearing, and identical chains. Price matters in that contest too...What is 1 second quicker for a cut through a 12 inch log worth? How many hours of cutting, while saving a second a cut, would it take to make up the price difference ( whatever that might be)? If you save 1 &1/2 seconds per cut.. you saved 90 seconds per 60 cuts ( at 10 seconds per cut ). That works out to about 37 cents, at $15.00 an hour. And that is going to be a long time before that 500i nakes financial sense.
Saw feel.. can you get used to it's power curve, or are you fixed in your ways? I took down a tree with a friend of mine who is a die hard Stihl owner. We flipped for it, and he landed up on the saw ( Echo 590. (mine)), and I was on the rope / winch / ATV. He kept bogging the saw.. because he was used to the low end grunt of a 362 Stihl.. He couldn't wrap his head around letting the Ec ho rev up and cut. He wanted to dog in and make 'er grunt..
I've got a Stihl 362, an 038 AV, an Echo 590, 2 Echo 355Ts , an Echo 800 P, a Husky 455, an antique Homelight, and two "Chinesium" knock offs. I love them all, but I also respect that they are all different, excel at some jobs, suck at other jobs, and each one has a different personality... Even the ones that are supposedly identical.

If you like it, run it! At the end of the day, you are the only one who has to be happy with the saw you're running. Nobody else. And, if you're spoiling yourself with a saw that you don't really need, oh well.. so be it.

 

[bwalker]

"no matter how you want to measure that"
Well, I measure performance in several ways, and not all ways are of equal importance.
Let me name a few of them ( in no particular order )...

Performance as in power to weight? Sure, power is important, but lugging around an extra pound and a half all day, for no particular reason.. ?? Increased user fatigue for no reason.
Speed through a cut.. Sure, faster is nicer, but just be sure that the comparison is between two saws with identical displacement, identical gearing, and identical chains. Price matters in that contest too...What is 1 second quicker for a cut through a 12 inch log worth? How many hours of cutting, while saving a second a cut, would it take to make up the price difference ( whatever that might be)? If you save 1 &1/2 seconds per cut.. you saved 90 seconds per 60 cuts ( at 10 seconds per cut ). That works out to about 37 cents, at $15.00 an hour. And that is going to be a long time before that 500i nakes financial sense.
Saw feel.. can you get used to it's power curve, or are you fixed in your ways? I took down a tree with a friend of mine who is a die hard Stihl owner. We flipped for it, and he landed up on the saw ( Echo 590. (mine)), and I was on the rope / winch / ATV. He kept bogging the saw.. because he was used to the low end grunt of a 362 Stihl.. He couldn't wrap his head around letting the Ec ho rev up and cut. He wanted to dog in and make 'er grunt..
I've got a Stihl 362, an 038 AV, an Echo 590, 2 Echo 355Ts , an Echo 800 P, a Husky 455, an antique Homelight, and two "Chinesium" knock offs. I love them all, but I also respect that they are all different, excel at some jobs, suck at other jobs, and each one has a different personality... Even the ones that are supposedly identical.

If you like it, run it! At the end of the day, you are the only one who has to be happy with the saw you're running. Nobody else. And, if you're spoiling yourself with a saw that you don't really need, oh well.. so be it.

If most guys tried to pencil out their saw purchases they wouldn't be here.
The truth is, saws are, all things considered a cheap hobby for most of us. That's why a few hundred less for an Echo makes about zero sense to me, but I also am of the school of thought that says I would rather have 1 or 2 topend pieces vs. A pile of lesser stuff.

 

[Mad3400]

If most guys tried to pencil out their saw purchases they wouldn't be here.
The truth is, saws are, all things considered a cheap hobby for most of us. That's why a few hundred less for an Echo makes about zero sense to me, but I also am of the school of thought that says I would rather have 1 or 2 topend pieces vs. A pile of lesser stuff.

Only 1 or 2?...

Mad3400

 

[Rich 07830]

"no matter how you want to measure that"
Well, I measure performance in several ways, and not all ways are of equal importance.
Let me name a few of them ( in no particular order )...

Performance as in power to weight? Sure, power is important, but lugging around an extra pound and a half all day, for no particular reason.. ?? Increased user fatigue for no reason.
Speed through a cut.. Sure, faster is nicer, but just be sure that the comparison is between two saws with identical displacement, identical gearing, and identical chains. Price matters in that contest too...What is 1 second quicker for a cut through a 12 inch log worth? How many hours of cutting, while saving a second a cut, would it take to make up the price difference ( whatever that might be)? If you save 1 &1/2 seconds per cut.. you saved 90 seconds per 60 cuts ( at 10 seconds per cut ). That works out to about 37 cents, at $15.00 an hour. And that is going to be a long time before that 500i nakes financial sense.
Saw feel.. can you get used to it's power curve, or are you fixed in your ways? I took down a tree with a friend of mine who is a die hard Stihl owner. We flipped for it, and he landed up on the saw ( Echo 590. (mine)), and I was on the rope / winch / ATV. He kept bogging the saw.. because he was used to the low end grunt of a 362 Stihl.. He couldn't wrap his head around letting the Ec ho rev up and cut. He wanted to dog in and make 'er grunt..
I've got a Stihl 362, an 038 AV, an Echo 590, 2 Echo 355Ts , an Echo 800 P, a Husky 455, an antique Homelight, and two "Chinesium" knock offs. I love them all, but I also respect that they are all different, excel at some jobs, suck at other jobs, and each one has a different personality... Even the ones that are supposedly identical.

If you like it, run it! At the end of the day, you are the only one who has to be happy with the saw you're running. Nobody else. And, if you're spoiling yourself with a saw that you don't really need, oh well.. so be it.

Well said!
Lugging around an extra 1 1/2lbs. it's not a big deal for me, in context. If my framing hammer (that I carry 3-4 days/week) went from 22oz to 46oz, that would suck. However if my CS-620P weighs 24 oz more that a Stihl MS400C-M that weight is barely noticeable. The 400 is a great saw, no doubt! That said, it loses the value proposition for some firewood cutters.

 

[bwalker]

Well said!
Lugging around an extra 1 1/2lbs. it's not a big deal for me, in context. If my framing hammer (that I carry 3-4 days/week) went from 22oz to 46oz, that would suck. However if my CS-620P weighs 24 oz more that a Stihl MS400C-M that weight is barely noticeable. The 400 is a great saw, no doubt! That said, it loses the value proposition for some firewood cutters.

Its noticeable when you combine that weight with lower performance and more vibration. It gets worse when your falling timber or limbing up trees. For cutting firewood from decked logs it really doesnt matter other than the poor performance speed wise and the increased vibration.

 

[Rich 07830]

Its noticeable when you combine that weight with lower performance and more vibration. It gets worse when your falling timber or limbing up trees. For cutting firewood from decked logs it really doesnt matter other than the poor performance speed wise and the

I've never cut decked logs, plenty of deck boards though. The performance is far from poor, Just Sayin' & vibration is a non-event.

 

[bwalker]

I've never cut decked logs, plenty of deck boards though. The performance is far from poor, Just Sayin' & vibration is a non-event.

But it is in comparison.

 

[FXJenkins]

I like turtles…

Ding ding, we have a winner.

 

[Chucksta]

Bwalker said...

"The truth is, saws are, all things considered a cheap hobby for most of us."

Ain't that the everlovin' truth!!

O.K.... Hands up, how many don't bat an eye over dropping 40 K + on a new pick em up truck, but wring their hands over a difference of a couple of hundred bucks or less, between two saws? " .. C'mon.. really, if you're cutting for bucks, a couple of hundred bucks is irrelevant ... get what cuts fast , balanced against what feels best in your hands. Taking down small stuff? Sure the Echo 590 would be faster that the 355T, but for me, I'd rather have the light weight of the 355T, than the speed of the Timber Wolf, if cutting all day.

Personally, I've never been disappointed, when I've bought ( arguably ), the best. I bought a high end Harmon Kardon stereo, decades ago. The cost of ownership for something I truly enjoyed was around 5 cents an hour, or less.

My "other" favourite for stuff is " great bang for the buck ".. which would explain my new Echo purchases . It would also explain buying my classic Stihl saws from Municipal auctions, for example, a perfect running 362 for $125.00 CDN. My Av 038 was under $100.00 CDN., also from a municipal auction.

Yup, for sure, right now I have about 9 saws, down from 15 -16 when I was working and then downsized when retiring. Realistically, I could get by with three, or maybe four... But, as I can easily afford to indulge what is now a hobby, Why would I.

 

[Rich 07830]

But it is in comparison.

How many angels can dance on a pinhead?