Disparaging Remarks

[Ekka]

ISA ******s

Ha, your starting to use Aussie terminology calling people that. lol

They do have to sit a test so atleast you know they passed something ... no?

The concept though has merrit, pass your exam, get certified ... and even a continual points system to stay certified. Good concept, but it's failed yes?

So, how can it be fixed, ISA pulls certification ... I don't know anymore, unless there's enforcable regs who cares? If the ISA pulled their certification they'd just get another one from somewhere else, I'm sure the ISA doesn't have a monopoly on arborist training. There's other places isn't there?

What about these local county's stipulating you must be an ISA certified arborist, if they pulled your certification and notified the county you'd be in deep chit.

Things are different here, no-one can pull your certification ... ever. You passed the exam you got the ticket, what you do after that is really up to you. You can belong to some organisations and submit to their "ethics", I suppose they can kick you out, big deal, your still certified.

The only true enforcement would be fining the malpractice. Like getting a licence to drive a car, you break the rules you get a fine, quick and easy.

Interesting hey?

 

[elmnut]

My company runs 3 toro dingos equipped with a branch manager grapple,(awsome, google "branch manager grapple", good service also) a 30" plant auger, trencher(8"), forks and bucket. Also using an ASV posi-trac 50 with flat tracks that minimize lawn repair. (the dingos are track models also, and they never call in sick)

 

[Treeinnovator]

My company runs 3 toro dingos equipped with a branch manager grapple,(awsome, google "branch manager grapple", good service also) a 30" plant auger, trencher(8"), forks and bucket. Also using an ASV posi-trac 50 with flat tracks that minimize lawn repair. (the dingos are track models also, and they never call in sick)

did you buy new or used....how much?
is it so good you kick yourself for not buying one sooner?

 

[clearance]

Ground bound certified arborist are way better than tree climbing hackers!

Better for what? What do they do, except make stupid decisions to risk peoples lives and property? Ground bound, to useless to climb, pencil pushing ****. Anyways Treeco, what are you doing about ISA certs. approving pruning with spikes, nothing, like an ISA *** thats ground bound, cheers.

 

[buff]

CLEARENCE......You really need to quit the hard stuff and stick with alcohol.

 

[clearance]

CLEARENCE......You really need to quit the hard stuff and stick with alcohol.

I don't drink, don't use, you need to learn how to spell, right in front of your eyes, Clearance. What are you doing to make sure that ISA certified people follow the "rules"? Nothing, of course, like the other ISA babies on site. Put up or shut up.

 

[treeseer]

"The concept though has merrit, pass your exam, get certified ... and even a continual points system to stay certified. Good concept, but ...I'm sure the ISA doesn't have a monopoly on arborist training. There's other places isn't there?"

Not another national arborist certification program I know of. Utilities of course have their own cert. Some states have tighter standards than ISA, but I don't know if they enforce--anyone from NJ etc know of a case where a cert was pulled for malpractice?

Thanks again for the offer C, but I won't be writing BC Hydro on your behalf. I got troubles enough at home.:notrolls2:

 

[clearance]

"The concept though has merrit, pass your exam, get certified ... and even a continual points system to stay certified. Good concept, but ...I'm sure the ISA doesn't have a monopoly on arborist training. There's other places isn't there?"

Not another national arborist certification program I know of. Utilities of course have their own cert. Some states have tighter standards than ISA, but I don't know if they enforce--anyone from NJ etc know of a case where a cert was pulled for malpractice?

Thanks again for the offer C, but I won't be writing BC Hydro on your behalf. I got troubles enough at home.:notrolls2:

I said as much, lame, shut your whining mouth about spurs forever then. Pretty funny how many people who are ISA certified do nothing to ensure only ISA rules are followed by ISA people. Kind of like cops letting a fellow cop sell crack, a motorcycle club letting a guy who got a sex change stay in thier club, an airline letting a pilot drink on the job....and so on, pathetic. No pride in the outfit you are members in.

 

[buff]

CLEARENCE......I am sorry that you have reached the age you are and did not acquire any education. But do you have to beat everybody over the head that did make the effort?

 

[Ekka]

Not another national arborist certification program I know of. Utilities of course have their own cert. Some states have tighter standards than ISA, but I don't know if they enforce--anyone from NJ etc know of a case where a cert was pulled for malpractice?

OK, so they're up there and well established and recognised. They do have an ISA climber cert too. So you can get climbing certified as well as all other stuff like cabling etc.

Clearance, you are a pretty tough straight shooter, these ISA guys aren't all rotten eggs now are they?

It is poor that nothing happens but really, an authority with power has to do it. I'm not sure if the ISA has the right to pull certs and fine people.

Yes, the issue that not all are by the book bothers many, but beating up on them all may not be the solution.

I dont have the answers either, but I can say that educating the client can be a waste of time, self regulation doesn't work, so the only thing I can see is the big stick coming out hitting the malpractices in the wallet. And until they do it, it will continue.

Over here, it's all butchering and spiking, no-one cares, especially the customer ... they just want a bargain.

Other areas you need to comply, permits to do works, post works inspections etc ... so it can be done.

The day people realise trees are an asset and require proper care things will change, but to many they're just an...

obstacle obscuring a view

a leaf dropping hinderence

a potential blow over damaging their house

a source of firewood and building materials

a scavanger of water and nutrients to other more deserving flowers

an allelopathic eyesaw to undergrowth

a harbinger of feral pests and rodents

a solar obstructor

A radio and TV signal shadower

.... Oh, I think you get my drift.

 

[clearance]

CLEARENCE......I am sorry that you have reached the age you are and did not acquire any education. But do you have to beat everybody over the head that did make the effort?

Lets see, I am allowed to work around powerlines here because I am educated, a utility arborist. That takes six weeks of school, 1200 hours of supervised work in close proximety to power, tests in the first year and a final test along with the ok from your employer. A far cry from an ISA utilty specialist, who would not be allowed to work around power here, ISA master whatever, you'd be chipping my brush. Ha, ha, ha, the utility here gives a lot of money to the ISA, and everyone it employs climbs with spurs. Make the effort??? Said it here before and I'll say it again, a smart 12 year old could pass the test. Couldn't even start a saw, you are certified, what a freaking joke. The ISA lets in anyone, from good guys to culls, seen it myself.

 

[Ekka]

The ISA lets in anyone, from good guys to culls, seen it myself.

Even bad guys pass exams.

Is it not a matter of passing an exam? You do not have to be a member of the ISA to do the exam do you?

For example, could I get my ISA CA but not be an ISA member?

I'm just getting the facts of how it works.

 

[clearance]

Even bad guys pass exams.

Is it not a matter of passing an exam? You do not have to be a member of the ISA to do the exam do you?

For example, could I get my ISA CA but not be an ISA member?

I'm just getting the facts of how it works.

I am not the one to ask, never will be. I hope that BC Hydro leaves the ISA or gets kicked out. Consider this Erik, when I came to this site people called me many names and slagged me and utility guys in general, unqualified around power guys gave dangerous advice etc. I responded by saying that instead of biatching to me that they should talk to BC Hydro about every one climbing with spurs, I supplied contact information, which no one used. So that is why I lost even more respect for the ISA, some of its members (on this site in particular) just whine and cry like babies about spurs, but do not a freaking thing about it, ******s. I know guys who are ISA, good guys I like, that trained me, and they climb with spurs, it really is a bit of a laugh. What does it take, a hack like me pushing to have standards upheld? Kind of like a drug dealer telling the police to clean the junkies out of the nieghborhood, c'mon.

 

[Tree Machine]

You do not have to be a member of the ISA to do the exam do you?

For example, could I get my ISA CA but not be an ISA member?

I'd never given that a thought, but it's a good question.

I think you're encouraged to also join your State chapters of the ISA so you can be connected at a more local level. Then there's professional affiliations you can be part of, pay and join.

 

[Ekka]

I know Clearance, I am in 2 frames of mind at this particular time regarding these organisations and their ethics.

Training, frankly, the organisations around here dont offer what I need so fat lot of good they are. I have to find a private college and pay for tuition. But finding one around here is like finding hens teeth.

Ethics, dont spur climb or top trees, only if you are a member, so many are not ... why would you be if it prevents you topping a tree? I've heard it hundreds of times, screw the QAA I'll just spike up there and top it and get my $750 ... just get the customer to sign something first if you are worried of liability. Can anyone fine you or prosecute .... no.

So, no-one gives a chit.

And the good guys miss out, and even get called righteous ******s, tree huggers, "dont get him he'll argue and not do it" etc. It is very hard when there is no laws and I'm seriously starting to think of telling all the lawmakers and ethical do gooders to get a right royal F'd and I'll bastardise the trees for profit coz it's legal.

Oh, if you want a pro by the book pruning job, I can do that too.

When the slack assed **** make some laws then I'll stick to them. But right now our town is totally soaked with hacks and ******s, and waving a QAA or ISA flag around aint getting you in the gate.

The common layperson around these parts demands their trees be topped, and if you spike them that's OK, sort of like aerating the lawn isn't it? lol:biggrinbounce2:

And I dare say where you are it aint against the law either. Oh it's not the best thing for the tree, we know that, but like one guy said to me, "by the time you have stuffed around with that bigshot, set your friction saver, prussiked up there etc I'd be packing up" give the client 2 prices and let them choose maybe?

 

[trevmcrev]

Hey ekka, are there no Local Laws or Vegetation Protevtion Overlays up where you are? Down here in Melbourne nearly every council in the South East of Victoria where we operate does. Strict rules on what you can & cant do, permits required for nearly everything, and the council will fine your ass and the homeowners if you do anything wrong. One council even has a blanket policy that "No Height Reduction Is Allowed" even if done properly.

You still see the odd tree slip through where the homeowner did it themselves or hired a gardener(might as well let your plumber do it) or hired an out of towner who doesnt know/care about permits. There have been some big fines dished out around here, and several criminal convictions, mainly to the developers that dont give a stuff about a $10,000 fine if they can fit another $750,000 townhouse on the block. Also good opportunities for training/qualifications down here with Melb. Uni(Burnley) and NMIT.

Still at the end of the day we compete against unqualified cowboys doing poor work and have a constant battle educating clients towards better methods to achieve what they want when theyve seen their neighbors lopped tree and figure they should do that too. :monkey: see :monkey: do!

I think council permits if structured well do eventually lead to better tree work and less lopping but it takes time. Also i think its somewhat generational. Younger, educated clients seem to respect your knowledge more, acknowledgeing that youre the expert and they are not. The older ones hvae seen hundreds of lopped trees throughout their lives. They "bush up again" they really dont believe otherwise.

Trev

 

[treeseer]

"a motorcycle club letting a guy who got a sex change stay in thier club"

Sounds like a Freudian Slip. There he goes again, slandering the transgendered this time. Our local Harley club lets em stay in, but only if they ride sidesaddle. opcorn:

"i think its somewhat generational. Younger, educated clients seem to respect your knowledge more, acknowledgeing that youre the expert and they are not."

trev you are right; Educated clients are worth the effort.

"one guy said to me, "by the time you have stuffed around with that bigshot, set your friction saver, prussiked up there etc I'd be packing up"

ekka, that guy has not seen skilled climbers, then, if that's what he thinks.

 

[Ekka]

There is bugger all protection up here, it's a flamin embarrassment, shame shame shame derrin Hinch would say.

And all you'll get is lip service and BS from council, they actually think they're doing a good job. sure there is the odd protection order but i can tell you it's rare.

Gold Coast city council has cleaned up the act a fair bit with protection orders but up here it's bad.

I often ring the councils to check, no protection, you'll see topped and lopped trees everywhere including TAFE college and govt schools!

The power line trimmers are setting the best example of tree care and doing a pretty darn good job, at least they're pruning to AS 4373.

You wonder why all the bodgey ******s from Sydney and NZ are here, hack away and collect ya pay.

 

[rebelman]

Part of the problem is reducing decades of study, research, and hard won gains to establish standards for the residential tree service industry down to pcbs.

 

[treeseer]

Part of the problem is reducing decades of study, research, and hard won gains to establish standards for the residential tree service industry down to pcbs.

Aren't pcb's carcinogenic?