Drying vs Non-Drying Vegetable Oils

[GerrySM]

Not sure how these oils compare to canola. Canola has already received a as regards lubricity, good resistance to shear, a high flash point, and high viscosity:

USDA Forest Service :VEGETABLE OIL FOR LUBRICATING CHAIN SAWS

 

[GerrySM]

Oils have a iodine value, which is a measure of how strong a tendency the oil has to oxidation and thus to drying. Drying is particularly detrimental to chainsaws, as the oil/fat sticks to the components and can be removed only with difficulty. On the basis of drying capacity, oils are divided into nondrying, semidrying and drying oils. Drying oils have iodine value >130 while non drying oils have Iodine value less than 100:

Iodine Values of Oils

Almond,Sweet 95-109
Aloe Vera 105-120
Apricot Kernel 95-110
Avocado 75-95
Babassu 14-20
Baobab 55-95
Black Cumin 110-125
Blackcurrant 145-188
Borage 130-140
Brazil Nut 70-130
Camelina 127-160
Camellia 75-95
Canola 105-120
Castor 82-90
Cherry Kernel 90-115
Cottonseed 105-115
Cocoa Butter 30-45
Coconut 8-11
Corn 103-130
Cranberry Seed 140-180
Emu 75
Evening Primrose 140-160
Flax/Linseed 170-200
Grapeseed 130-145
Hazelnut 85-100
Hempseed 150-170
Illipe Butter 30-35
Jojoba 80-90
Kiwi Seed 170-205
Kokum Butter 30-50
Kukui Nut 130-165
Lard 43
Macadamia Nut 73-79
Mango Butter 40-55
Marula Oil 70-80
Mowrah Butter 53-70
Neem 65-85
Olive 79-95
Palm 48-58
Palm Kernel 14-24
Passion Fruit 125-140
Peach Kernel 95-115
Peanut 82-99
Pecan 108-118
Perilla 185-208
Pistachio 84-96
Poppyseed 130-144
Pumpkin Seed 115-140
Rice Bran 88-105
Rosehip Seed 180-195
Safflower 120-135
Sal Butter 35-43
Sesame 103-116
Shea Butter 45-65
Shea Oil 75-90
Soybean 125-145
Stearic Acid <3
Sunflower 120-145
Sunflower, High Oleic 80-100
Tallow 42-45
Walnut 120-140
Wheat Germ 115-140

So Canola is SEMI-DRYING, and peanut and olive are NON-DRYING. Time for us all to experiment with them, I guess.

 

[TBS]

I'll contribute a little since I've been thinking about heading this direction for bar oil.

 

[Brushwacker]

If it wasn't so expensive, I'd use veggie oil myself. As it is I usually carry around a small jug of old veggie that set longer then it should for cooking and use it once in a while for bar oil to use it up. The smell of it when I use it makes me hungry. Actually I some times cut trees very close to water and don't particularly like seeing the bar oil being slung into the streams, so I find that a good place to go veggie. I have extra oil pumps for my o26 so it is first choice for the change. I do try to run all the veggie out and haven't had a problem yet.

 

[GerrySM]

I agree about the cost. I've become and occasional/intermittent user, so going vege is not a cost consideration at this stage. I reckon 80% of chainsaw users are intermittent like me.

 

[Justsaws]

While the oils may be listed as non-drying when exposed to air, exposure to heat, water, sugars and oxidizing solids(saw dust, molds) will alter how those oils behave. As will how the oils were prepared. Cost and access make most unappealing. Peanut and olive oils will harden when heated and polluted. Worked okay as a bar lube, saw no advantage over canola, more expensive here.

Tack additives in petroleum bar lubes cut down on the misting and reduce consumption. Straight plant oils mist much more. Just because you can eat some of them does not inherently make them safer to breathe across the board, they can still cause lesions and inflammation of mucus linings, especially after having been heated and oxidation process sped up.

Canola is a fairly decent bar lube, not many folks with severe allegies to it and it is cost effective compared to cheapy petroleum lubes. Down sides are storage, stink, and consumption rate. Washes out of clothes way easier though, offset by how moldy it gets when left on saw dust covered chaps and saws. I have not used it in a long time. Have a supply of petroleum to use currently.

I would be surprised if many folks have tried much beyond the typical canola, corn, peanut, etc. simply based on cost and availiblity. Out of those choices canola worked best for me.

 

[GerrySM]

Peanut and olive oils will harden when heated and polluted

Interesting claim. Your evidence? I'm all about getting the science of this right.

1. What evidence is there that vegetable bar oil, which is not on the bar for long after all, is getting up into the temperature range where its characteristics are changed?
2. What evidence is there that non-drying oils become drying oils when heated?

Don't forget, heat doesn't "dry" linseed oil in an oil painting; oil paints don't actually "dry". They oxidize (for want of a better word, they rust...) Heat will increase the speed of reaction, but not so you'd notice in a few minutes.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[Little Al]

You could give Oregon Arborol a go when made up it consists 3/4 water

 

[mga]

Yes, I know the problems with oil exhaust from 2-strokes, and I use the wind, when possible, to waft it away if I can. Bar oil enters the air as a mist and can easily be inhaled. That's well known, just use google to check. It also damages plants (horticulturists are very aware of the "burn" and browning mineral oils leave on plants, and many have moved to vegetable oils so as not to annoy their clients by damaging their plants). Petroleum (mineral) oils are Group 1 carcinogens (IOW proven to cause cancer). I don't want them on my body, in my lungs, or sprayed around the environment, and neither should you.

ok, then I highly recommend using an electric chainsaw using whatever organic oil you like.

also, as far as what "recommended", the EPA said ethanol is also good for the environment.

 

[Jeffkrib]

I'm currently using (past it's used by date but new) canola oil mixed 50:50 with Stihl bio oil. The bio oil also has a used by date (which has expired) been using it for a year or two with no problems. Sometimes six months without using the saw. I keep the oil tank full when not in use. The canola was effectively free and the bio oil was quite expensive, from memory it was cheaper than using Stihl mineral oil doing it this way.
You may have experiment with different oils to find out what works. Worst case you will have to pull the oil pum apart to clean up a gummed oil.

 

[Adam08ski]

ever tried an axe

 

[GerrySM]

You could give Oregon Arborol a go when made up it consists 3/4 water

Arborol is just expensive vegetable oil with some proprietary nasty additives. I'll pass.

ok, then I highly recommend using an electric chainsaw using whatever organic oil you like.

Thanks, already have an electric chainsaw (Makita), but I need a larger gas-driven chainsaw for bucking big trees.

the EPA said ethanol is also good for the environment.

Ethanol is alcohol, nothing to do with petroleum toxicity.

You may have experiment with different oils to find out what works. Worst case you will have to pull the oil pum apart to clean up a gummed oil.

That looks like the path I will have to follow. I will first try OLIVE OIL and report back if there is or is not any gumming.

 

[CR888]

What are the added benifits of veggie oil?

I save enough money every year to buy a new pro saw. When doing a removal over a pond or waterway, you don't contaminat the water and leave bright colorful swirls on the surface. Noodles from blocking can be used as plant mulch keeping moisture in the soil. My hands don't itch and get irritated anymore. Lubricates the bar better in 'my opinion'. When your bar oil jug falls over the resident dog comes & licks it up. I thought this was a trick question, but there you go.

 

[blsnelling]

Surely you're not burning wood and contaminating your air with smoke!

 

[Sepia]

Surely you're not burning wood and contaminating your air with smoke!

As long as he is paying his carbon taxes, it is safe for the environment.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

I wanted to run vegoil in my mills because it uses a lot of oil and figure I'm dumping a lot of it in the same path repeatedly while milling boards. I'm not terribly concerned about the health benefits. It's the economics what turned me off. I just can't get vegoil for less than double of dino-oil.

 

[Justsaws]

Heat/ oxidizing agents are the main cause of problems that people experience with plant oils in lubrication/cooling applications. You can join many different forums from knife making,machining, etc. and read many different threads about the various pros and cons of what various oil do what. Just use canola oil, paraphrased them.

If you want actual practical experience, use canola oil if it is availible cheaper than peanut oil, and use peanut oil if field sprayed peanut oil covered clothes and tools will not cause anyone you know to have an allergic reaction and it is cheaper than canola.

I saw little to no advantage to one or the other as a bar lube, olive oil for me was free, seems a bit spendy if not free. Steamed off much faster, and produced the same crusty hard slime that any other plant based oil I have tried did.

Rancid seed oils are not good for people to eat or slather on their skins, probably not good for people to breathe, bare that in mind when saving out dated or improperly stored plants oils to be used as bar lube.

The list of non drying oils has a very specific qualifier, like most lists. Expand out to bio oils for lubrication and cooling. The additives put in commercial bio bar lubes are there to lengthen the oxidation time, etc., for commercial users, often sourced from used oils(yellow wax) to begin with which is why many were so expensive. If you are not a commercial user and are a spend thrift then clean the saw after use before storage, does not take very long and is good maintenance practice to begin with. Coat things with baby oil, if WD40 is against the rules. I used mineral spirits for cleaning, use the same batch for multiple cleanings, it will settle and can be decanted. A gallon lasts a long long time for this use.

Milled with canola, etc., less than 30" wide cuts needed to use an aux oiler wide open, other than that it worked fine, consumption was much greater than petroleum bar lubes.

 

[2dogs]

When I worked in watershed rehab we all used either Stihl Bio Plus or Bio Plus cut with straight canola oil at 1:1. I have used straight canola oil with no problems. Right now I'm using Tractor Supply bar oil because it's cheap and I'm being lazy. I prefer using a veg oil but I don't always practice what I preach.

I can't comment on drying oils because I have only used canola but I have not had all the bad issues some have spoken of. I do rinse the oil tank once a year or so with mix regardless of what oil I use. BTW canola is cheap at Costco so everyone can give it a try. And please, never use drain oil.

 

[7sleeper]

...Petroleum-based bar oils are banned in Austria. Maybe there's a reason?...

I am sorry but that is not correct. It is quite important where you cut. Private forrest no one cares, public forrest they typically prefer bio oil, national park forrest bio oil is the only way.

One thing I haven't seen sofar in this thread, is the correct switch over from mineral to bio oil.

Simple version, empty oil tank, refill with bio oil and run at least two fuel tanks through so that the oil system is "clean".

Second version, rinse out the oil tank with diesel or similar and run at least two fuel tanks through so that the oil system is "clean".

Mixing bio with mineral is a guarentee for gelling problems.

About using bio oils, as far as I have understood from highly expericed users using exclusively canola oil for many years in a professional setting they have never had a problem. All seldom users (less than once a year use) can consider bio lube from one of the major brands or a mineral oil.

7

 

[GerrySM]

I just can't get vegoil for less than double of dino-oil.

Cost is not an issue for most non-professional users of chainsaws. Volume is small.

I saw little to no advantage to one or the other as a bar lube, olive oil for me was free, seems a bit spendy if not free. Steamed off much faster, and produced the same crusty hard slime that any other plant based oil I have tried did.

Free olive oil? You must have been getting it pre-used, from a commercial cooker. Okay, that explains why you had poor results. Fresh olive oil should be a different beast completely.

I have only used canola but I have not had all the bad issues some have spoken of

You are probably a high-volume user. They never have a problem with canola.

I am sorry but that is not correct.

But it is correct. From the USDA link at top of page, I quote: " In Austria, all petroleum-based chain saw oils are banned." That may refer to government forestry work.

All seldom users (less than once a year use) can consider bio lube from one of the major brands or a mineral oil.

No, vege is better because

1. cheaper
2. more widely available (every grocery store!)
3. no mystery additives (which are possibly toxic)