Drying vs Non-Drying Vegetable Oils

[Finnlogger]

My limited experience for about six months, using plain rapeseed oil: no problems whatsoever! It costs 1,39€ /liter, being cheaper than any "real" chain oil. I use bars 13-20" long and they oil well, haven't experienced any gumming or drying. I have thought of doing some experiments on this subject, exposing different oils to air...

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[GerrySM]

My limited experience for about six months, using plain rapeseed oil: no problems whatsoever! I use bars 13-20" long and they oil well, haven't experienced any gumming or drying

If you let it sit a few weeks to months, you may have problems because rapeseed/canola is a semi-drying oil by iodine value:
Rapeseed oil 94 - 120
Rapeseed oil (Canola) 110 - 126
Rapeseed oil, erucic acid incl. 100 - 106
Rapeseed oil, erucic acid excl.112 - 117
Rapeseed oil (HEAR) 97 - 108
Rapeseed oil (low erucic acid) 105 - 126

Source: http://www.dgfett.de/material/physikalische_eigenschaften.pdf

 

[GerrySM]

Regarding Olive Oil, I saw this comment on another forum: "One guy in the States gets non-food grade Olive oil for about $2 a gallon - that would be excellent stuff to use because it has an even higher specific heat than canola and much higher specific heat than mineral oil. A high specific heat removes more heat from the bar than a low specific heat lube. "

FYI, vegetable oil viscosities compared:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jfp/2014/234583/tab2/
Olive oil is slightly more viscous than canola. Both canola and olive are superior to Group I mineral oil which is all that's usually used for bar oil.
BTW, SAE 30 has a viscosity of 0.310 (20ºC) to 0.061(50ºC).

From Advantages & Disadvantages of Low-VOC Vegetable-Based Metalworking Fluids:

1. Vegetable oils outperform mineral oils on lubricity tests
2. Canola has a much higher flash point (620ºF) than mineral oil (390ºF)
3. Monounsaturated vegetable oils (70% or higher monounsaturated) resist gumming and oxidation (see below)
4. Mineral oils more likely to MIST during operations than vegetable oil
5. Mineral oils can cause dermatitis, vegetable oils do not

* Note that Safflower, although high in monounsaturated oils, has an iodine value of 120-135, so is a drying oil

 

[c5rulz]

Good Lord if you are so worried about real bar oil destroying the earth and your lungs then you shouldn't use a chainsaw. Bar oil doesn't hurt anything. Every year I cut 20-25 full cord and a good chunk of it is cut on a trailer right next to the stacks so a good amount of sawdust ends up in the lawn.

This grass doesn't look too bad, it is fed bar oil, Diethyl amine salt of 2-4D, Dicamba, Sulfentrozone, Triclopyr, Prodiamine and 100% controlled release RxN 33-0-5 W2% Fe.

 

[Justsaws]

Chainsaw lubrication is defined as a total loss.

The reality is that after the saw is turned off there is heated bar lube all over it. The chain is covered in it. The bar rail is full of it. It is saturated with saw dust. It is no longer the exact same oil that is in the tank and far away from what is in the bottle. The oil and pollutants have been heated and are going to be left to slowly cool off...

Tank testing oils also needs to include agitation, this is important because small amount of water in plant based oils can result in large amounts of foaming. Foaming in the tank equals less oil to the bar during use and pump failures.

Plant based oils can carry particulate matter through a system much better than petroleum based oils.

 

[Finnlogger]

One liter of oil contaminates million liters of groundwater.

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[7sleeper]

Interesting .... source for that? Your opinion or a result of a published test?

Only emperic evidence, mentioned by experienced professional users. For me totally sufficient, for you probably highly insufficient.

I might add that I am truely eagerly awaiting your experimental results. And the amount of cutting needed to deliver solid scientific evidence will be quite impressive. Just taking into consideration all veriables(oil temperature, humidity, oil type, wood type, outside temperature,... etc. etc.) will be quite impressive!

Good luck!

7

 

[Okie]

You say:
I am an occasional chainsaw user who wants to use healthy and enviro-friendly vege oils.

You need to stop cutting on trees and HUG and kiss them. (and plant some trees)
and do not use any toilet paper which is made from trees, don't wipe and remember everyone lives downstream.



nuff said

 

[GerrySM]

Bar oil doesn't hurt anything.

Another BSD. Tell you what, champ, you go right ahead and keep using hydrocarbon lubes. Who knows, maybe you'll prove all the scientists wrong? As Clint Eastwood said, "Do you feel lucky, punk?"

The oil and pollutants have been heated .... large amounts of foaming.[snip]

And you're off in cloud cuckoo land. As I explained in the previous answer to you, the oil is in a 'total loss' system that continuously moves it from the reservoir, onto the bar, then the chain, and off into the environment. No oil is heated as it would be during boiling/frying operations. It does get hot to the touch, but then it's gone. Sawdust in the oil makes no difference to its essential characteristics. And I have never contaminated my bar oil with water and never seen foaming, so you've pulled that one out of some orifice or another.

One liter of oil contaminates million liters of groundwater.

I know, but don't tell the Big Swinging Dicks who use it all the time "with no problems at all".

I am truely eagerly awaiting your experimental results

I'm only going to run one simple experiment: by using it. I'll soon see any problems, any gumming, or any other drawbacks. If I don't post here again, you can assume no problems occurred and the oil is performing as I expected.

You need to stop cutting on trees and HUG and kiss them

Ignore list updated.

 

[GerrySM]

 

[Mad Professor]

The Stihl bio-oil will harden to the point it will freeze up the chain and bar tip if left long enough. Tried soaking the chains in gas, diesel, atf, acetone, alcohol, ...........none worked very well.

I've used it on my sawmill saw so I could use the sawdust as mulch, always run the oil tank dry and then some regular oil or if it sits you will have a mess. Clean up the saw too, even under the clutch cover. I used some bio-oil in a pruning saw that sat for over a year and I ended up throwing the chain away, after I pried it from the bar rails with a screwdriver.

The cost for that stuff is crazy

 

[boltonranger]

This thread began with a question.
A request for information.
The OP has shared more information in this thread than any other poster.
I think the OP has sold himself way short, and rather than ask a question, should make the topic a sticky.
What say you Gerry? Are you up to it?

 

[GerrySM]

Stihl bio-oil will harden to the point it will freeze up the chain and bar tip if left long enough.

Stihl BioPlus Chain and Bar oil is composed of, and I quote from the MSDS, a "complex mixture of vegetable oils and additives". Nothing on earth would make me use it.

 

[GerrySM]

What say you Gerry? Are you up to it?

Happy to

 

[Jeffkrib]

This could end up being a real sticky sticky!

 

[Bwildered]

For what it's worth, I was involved in plot testing of oil spillages for the CSIRO after the Exon Valdez disaster, the results came back that the soil microbes quickly digested the oil, these were high saturation plots, not the microscopic amounts that would be flung around by a chainsaw after the sawdust had absorbed most of it. It would be interesting to see the amount breathed in would be, but I'd dare say it wouldn't be any worse that driving down a busy multi lane highway that had heavy traffic on it, not that is ideal either.

 

[c5rulz]

For what it's worth, I was involved in plot testing of oil spillages for the CSIRO after the Exon Valdez disaster, the results came back that the soil microbes quickly digested the oil, these were high saturation plots, not the microscopic amounts that would be flung around by a chainsaw after the sawdust had absorbed most of it. It would be interesting to see the amount breathed in would be, but I'd dare say it wouldn't be any worse that driving down a busy multi lane highway that had heavy traffic on it, not that is ideal either.

Great post. However in today's world REAL LIFE scientific testing is discounted by folks with a political agenda they want to impose on all others.

This pile of logs was cut in place. The 2nd pic is the grass that Summer, it doesn't look too bad. (the brown spot is from pallets sitting there)

 

[Justsaws]

Oven cleaner will remove the hardened bio lube. Varnish and oil paint strippers will as well.

Various plant based oils mixed with the "sap" of various conifers is often sold as varnish.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

A liter (or gallon) of oil dumped on the ground may indeed screw up a lot of water through runoff. I don't think a liter run through a saw has even remotely the same effect.

 

[Boogedy_Man]

...the results came back that the soil microbes quickly digested the oil, these were high saturation plots, not the microscopic amounts that would be flung around by a chainsaw after the sawdust had absorbed most of it.

Now this is an interesting post.

A random thought.....some three years ago my pickup was idling on my lawn and blew a lower radiator hose. Everything dumped. Within 48 hours I had a dead patch of grass the size of a sheet of plywood. By late summer, however, that patch was the greenest in the yard. It looked like it had been fertilized in the exact size and shape of the spill. In the time it took the rest of the lawn to grow 1/2", that patch would grow a foot tall, bright green and THICK. I know it's not petroleum....I understand that. But still, that toxic substance that initially killed my grass was fairly quickly reduced to beneficial organics that led to an absolute boom of growth.

I'm not a scientist by any stretch, but I think the environment can deal with minor spills much better than we give credit for.