EPA wanting to rule on use of wood heaters

[KindredSpiritzz]

I was under the impression these new regulations only applied to new stoves and wouldnt affect any old ones and that they wouldnt be "banned"

 

[blades]

Well heck, you can insure just about anything, if ya throw enough cash around.

 

[greenskeeper]

Employment Prevention Agency is at it again!

 

[jwp]

I think that we have about 58 days left to send in our thoughts on the regulations. I don't know where to send our responses. If anyone knows where to send our comments please post the address.

 

[Whitespider]

I was under the impression these new regulations only applied to new stoves and wouldnt affect any old ones and that they wouldnt be "banned"

Oh... the new regulations do indeed apply to the older stoves.
The new regs don't "ban" the use of them provided they are currently "in use" (installed and being used)... but they "ban" transfer of ownership and new installations (which would include moving the stove to a new location).
Are you getting that?? If you sell your house the stove would have to be removed and destroyed... you can't take it with you, and you can't transfer ownership of it to the purchaser of your home. If you purchase a new stove you can't give your old one to your daughter and her husband... once you uninstall it, it becomes worthless junk iron.

FOUND ON PAGE 177...
§ 60.530 Am I subject to this subpart?
(a) You are subject to this subpart if you operate, manufacture, sell, offer for sale, import for sale, distribute, offer to distribute, introduce, or deliver for introduction, into commerce in the United States, an affected wood heater specified in paragraphs (a)(1) or (a)(2) of this section:
(1) Each adjustable burn rate wood heater with a current EPA certificate of compliance, single burn rate wood heaters with a current EPA certificate of compliance, and each pellet stove with a current EPA certificate of compliance issued prior to [EFFECTIVE DATE OF FINAL RULE] according to the certification procedures in effect in this subpart at the time of certification that are manufactured on or after July 1, 1988 are affected wood heaters.
(2) All other residential wood heaters under this subpart manufactured or sold on or after [EFFECTIVE DATE OF FINAL RULE] are affected wood heaters.

FOUND ON PAGE 182...
§ 60.531 What definitions must I know?
Sale means the transfer of ownership or control, except that a transfer of control of an affected wood heater for research and development purposes within the scope of § 60.530(b)(2) is not a sale.

I think that we have about 58 days left to send in our thoughts on the regulations. I don't know where to send our responses. If anyone knows where to send our comments please post the address.

ON PAGE 4...
ADDRESSES: Submit your comments, identified by Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734, by one of the following methods:

• www.regulations.gov: Follow the on-line instructions for submitting comments.
• Email: [email protected], Attention Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734.
• Fax: (202) 566-9744, Attention Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734.
• Mail: United States (U.S.) Postal Service, send comments to EPA Docket Center, EPA West (Air Docket), Attention Docket ID Number EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Mailcode: 2822T, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20004. Please include a total of two copies. In addition, please mail a copy of your comments on the information collection provisions to the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, Office of Management and Budget, Attn: Desk Officer for EPA, 735 17th St., NW, Washington, DC 20503.
• Hand Delivery: EPA Docket Center, EPA West (Air Docket), Room 3334, 1301 Constitution Avenue, NW, Washington, DC, Attention Docket ID Number EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734. Such deliveries are only accepted during the Docket’s normal hours of operation, and special arrangements should be made for deliveries of boxed information.

 

[deerlakejens]

For all those blasting the EPA, how should the general public be protected? History clearly shows industries, intentional or not, do not regulate themselves if it hurts profits. States are too influenced by industry lobbyists, as the latest example in W VA has demonstrated. If your water source for drinking, cooking, showering, fishing, etc., was jeopardized like that and the responsible party is allowed to declare bankruptcy, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

 

[Whitespider]

I was under the impression these new regulations only applied to new stoves and wouldnt affect any old ones...

Of course you're "under" that "impression".
The EPA is using deceptive wording in their announcements and press releases to give you that very impression... while burying the truth within a bunch of regulation mumbo-jumbo. It's nothing new on their part (or any other regulatory body)... they know that hardly anyone takes the time to read every word and decipher what it actually says. Manufactures don't even take the time to read it... they hire lawyers to deal with that sort of crap.
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[olyman]

For all those blasting the EPA, how should the general public be protected? History clearly shows industries, intentional or not, do not regulate themselves if it hurts profits. States are too influenced by industry lobbyists, as the latest example in W VA has demonstrated. If your water source for drinking, cooking, showering, fishing, etc., was jeopardized like that and the responsible party is allowed to declare bankruptcy, what would your reaction be? Just curious.

according to the leftists,,hire at least 20 more gov agencys to take care of it,,with the required leftists running the show...dont put a conservative in there,,that would have a brain..

 

[John R]

I have no comment, none that I can post anyway.

I'll go along with that.

 

[Whitespider]

...how should the general public be protected? History clearly shows industries, intentional or not, do not regulate themselves...

Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution is very specific about the Federal Government's "power" to "regulate"...
"[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;"
So tell me, exactly how does that give the EPA power to regulate wood burning appliances??
For that matter, how does that even authorize a "regulatory body" such as the EPA??

And while you're explaining that one to me, you can also explain where the Constitution says it's the job of Federal Government to "protect" the "general public"??
The Tenth Amendment in the Bill of Rights specifically states...
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Meaning, specifically, any "power" not specifically granted by the Constitution to congress in Article 1, Section 8, not granted to the President in Article 2, Section 2, or not granted to the Judicial Branch in Article 3, Sections 1 and 2... resides with the states or the people.

The Feds flat ain't authorized‼
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[jebatty]

What's the reason someone with a stove that grossly emits smoke, carbon monoxide, and other stuff, all resulting from poor combustion, and none of which is good for the health of living things, wants to be able to continue to put these things in the air to be breathed by others? I've been racking my brain to find a reason why a person would want to breathe these things, and I can't discover any reason.

 

[Woody912]

You better read the proposed regulations Coldfront, 'cause it ain't so far-fetched. Your guns are specifically protected by the Second Amendment, giving you some recourse... your stove ain't.
As those proposed regs are worded today the EPA could outlaw transfer of ownership and outlaw the moving of any non-compliant appliance.
Are you getting that... if you sold your home you could not (legally) take it with you and you could not (legally) leave it for the new homeowner, it would have to be removed and destroyed. You couldn't even bring one out of mothballs (such as stored in a shed) and legally install it anywhere. The only exemption is appliances currently installed and in use in a home‼ So are you getting that... they could stop you from using a non-compliant appliance in your un-attached shop or garage.
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I really don't see the EPA stopping me and my buddies from loading my stove into the back of my truck and taking it to my new house. Maybe in a blue state but this one is still red. I also think this would fall under the heading of ex post facto if it ever gets that far

 

[Woody912]

What's the reason someone with a stove that grossly emits smoke, carbon monoxide, and other stuff, all resulting from poor combustion, and none of which is good for the health of living things, wants to be able to continue to put these things in the air to be breathed by others? I've been racking my brain to find a reason why a person would want to breathe these things, and I can't discover any reason.

Cause it's -3 outside, wood is free, propane is $7/gal and the Owebama fairy dust has not brought me any $1/megawatt green electricity

 

[Whitespider]

I also think this would fall under the heading of ex post facto if it ever gets that far

How is that??
The new regulations wouldn't place legal consequences on any sort of past or previous action or inaction (the definition of ex post facto law), it would only apply to future action or inaction. There ain't anything ex post facto about it in any way.
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[John R]

What's the reason someone with a stove that grossly emits smoke, carbon monoxide, and other stuff, all resulting from poor combustion, and none of which is good for the health of living things, wants to be able to continue to put these things in the air to be breathed by others? I've been racking my brain to find a reason why a person would want to breathe these things, and I can't discover any reason.

Sounds like you need to live in the city where they can run your life.

 

[MountainHigh]

They implement something like this 'upgrade' to more efficient stoves, by gradually massaging home insurance companies to deny insurance to those with "legacy" wood burners. It's seldom the altruistic reason they claim in their plans - its more frequently some lobby wanting to make a few gazzilion bucks behind stupidity like this, these days, they are all over this 'going green' trend, only the green they are talking about is usually greenbacks.

Look at the 'smart' meter fiasco - billions and billions spent on the backs of taxpayers and ratepayers, quickly ramming through wireless digital meters across the whole western world, despite uproars from those in the know everywhere. They were sold to the public as helping us save money - pure unadulterated BS - bills escalate in almost every instance a new 'smart' meter is installed. The 'smart' meter is just the entree into the banquet feast for manufacturers and network companies. the 'smart' grid will enable appliance manufacturers to gradually entice/force, through 'incentives', everyone to upgrade their appliances to 'smart' appliances, so 'smart appliances' can call home through your meter, spying on us in our homes, and charge us more for using energy at peak demand hours. Wash your clothes at midnight and we might give you a break - have the audacity to cook with electricity at dinner time, and you will pay more! California, Ontario, time of use billing and data warehousing for future profit sales to advertisers and the highest bidder - it's already happening

Am I cynical, hell ya! Money talks and big money is running the green puppet show.



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[NSMaple1]

Cause it's -3 outside, wood is free, propane is $7/gal and the Owebama fairy dust has not brought me any $1/megawatt green electricity

All that is still no justification for subjecting your neighbor to air pollution.

 

[isaaccarlson]

Just about any stove can be operated at a fairly high efficiency. I can burn most stoves without smoke most of the time. Smoke means wasting, and we don't like wasting. I don't think it right to blow smoke all over the neighborhood, but you should be able to heat with wood and should be as polite about it as possible.
I am not going down without a fight. I am sending an email right now...

 

[Whitespider]

Just about any stove can be operated at a fairly high efficiency. I can burn most stoves without smoke most of the time.

I couldn't agree with you more... but there's a bunch of people on this board who will claim you can't, and claim you're full of crap.
Which can only lead me to one conclusion... they flat don't have a clue how to go about running a pre-EPA box efficiently.

I guess that shouldn't be so surprising though... in this day-'n'-age of gadgets and everything done for you, why would someone take the time to actually learn something, actually educate themselves?? Personally I believe that knowledge is power... and the power of knowledge trumps all other forms of power. The only way to acquire that sort of knowledge is through self-education, 'cause "they" certainly ain't gonna' teach it to ya'... "they" don't want you to have any power.
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[jimbojango]

All that is still no justification for subjecting your neighbor to air pollution.

I farm 1600 acres, i'll bet my wood stove puts off a LOT less pollution than my farm can fix. Maybe you city folks need to all be required to own a certain amount of acres before you can have a wood stove. My body feeds you and i can't afford $7 propane (or $3 propane) when i have wood that is a waste product to me at my disposal. I don't care if i burn green wood because i have the TREE's and GRASS to offset it unlike the townies that can't even offset their "95%" efficient natural gas heater, or electric or whatever heater. you can shove it trying to play the pollution card.